fry178:

nope. you just need to train ppl properly when they get a license. there is a reaason why it cost about 2K to get one in europe, and 30$ in the US. most ppl in the US dont know how to drive a car. they are just allowed to steer one. e.g., where are all those reports about self driving cars/trucks/semis getting in accidents outside the US, where ppl have to learn how to drive...

Do you think it is logical that if you pay 2000 for your licence where you are from that it is also how much they pay in the rest 27 countries? That an eastern European must pay 10 months worth of salary for a single driving licence? Does it seem logical to you?

I find it slightly odd that so many here assume it was the professional human driver that initiated the stupid that caused this accident... It could just as easily been that the truck was already reversing and as the driver swapped mirror to check, then out of view the stupid autonomous vehicle drove up close behind the truck where the driver could not see it by the time he swapped mirrors again. The kind of mistake no human driver would have made or put themselves in , behind a clearly reversing truck. Yet this dumb bot did and then it's best reaction is to "park" itself in the danger zone lol It's programmers/project managers should clearly be held responsible releasing an autonomous vehicle that would be incapable of handling a situation as simple as avoiding the vehicle in front reversing slowly in traffic to, for eg, make room for an emergency vehicle to pass. Something people manage every day successfully around a big city. This kind of error should have been caught and dealt with early in an early alpha build in a sim or on a test track, not on a public road 😡 EDIT: I mean honestly, vehicles cannot pass their safety test without a working horn, does this autonomous one not have one or know how to use one? This is one of the most basic skills all human drivers know how to use for safety, who allowed this damn thing on the roads lol

fry178:

most ppl in the US dont know how to drive a car. they are just allowed to steer one. e.g., where are all those reports about self driving cars/trucks/semis getting in accidents outside the US, where ppl have to learn how to drive...

fry178:

nope. you just need to train ppl properly when they get a license. there is a reaason why it cost about 2K to get one in europe, and 30$ in the US. most ppl in the US dont know how to drive a car. they are just allowed to steer one. e.g., where are all those reports about self driving cars/trucks/semis getting in accidents outside the US, where ppl have to learn how to drive...

wrong.... y'all don't even drive on the right side of the road...:D

In 8-10 years, half the trips taken will be in autonomous vehicles. In 20-30 years, we may not see any more cars you can drive, possibly not even the exotics. I can absolutely see driving on streets being outlawed (in Western civilization) around that time. Humans suck at driving. The computers are better. Traffic fatalities will finally fall to nearly zero (if not "0"). May as well start getting on board. It's coming.

@anthos pls read my post again. where do i say HAVE to? where do i say EVERY country in europe? my point was the difference between america (30$) and most european countries where you actually have to go to school for half a year and drive at least 20-30hrs with a trainer (not just the parents) incl nights and highway driving. when i see pll in front of me making a right turn stop at an intersection where the straight lane has a green light, and turn to the left to see if another car is coming, tells me there is a big difference.

Was it a female AI? I know i know, i keed!

Reading this thread makes me wonder the level of intelligence on this forum. First of all. Claiming that having a human behind the wheel increases safety is laughable. Humans are directly responsible for a vast majority of the accidents that happen every day. The reason manufacturers keep being required to add more and more "safety features" is because human drivers are becoming more and more dangerous. The problem here is the fact that as more "safety features" are added to vehicles, the human drivers become increasingly dangerous, forcing manufacturers to add more "safety features" to counter-act the stupidity of the average driver. There is a limit to how safe a vehicle can be made, when the number 1 failure in operation is in fact, the driver. The cost to obtain a license has no bearing on how well someone will actually drive. Consider the fact that people buy $50k - $500k sports cars and still manage to be stupid enough to cause accidents with them. Even the cost of a vehicle isn't enough to deter the kind of stupidity that happens on a daily basis....

Humanoid_1:

It could just as easily been that the truck was already reversing and as the driver swapped mirror to check, then out of view the stupid autonomous vehicle drove up close behind the truck where the driver could not see it by the time he swapped mirrors again. The kind of mistake no human driver would have made or put themselves in , behind a clearly reversing truck. Yet this dumb bot did and then it's best reaction is to "park" itself in the danger zone lol It's programmers/project managers should clearly be held responsible releasing an autonomous vehicle that would be incapable of handling a situation as simple as avoiding the vehicle in front reversing slowly in traffic to, for eg, make room for an emergency vehicle to pass. Something people manage every day successfully around a big city. This kind of error should have been caught and dealt with early in an early alpha build in a sim or on a test track, not on a public road 😡 EDIT: I mean honestly, vehicles cannot pass their safety test without a working horn, does this autonomous one not have one or know how to use one? This is one of the most basic skills all human drivers know how to use for safety, who allowed this damn thing on the roads lol

What could have happened and what did happen are 2 completely different things. In this case, the truck began backing up while the bus was behind it. Something a responsible human being would never do. The fact that so many accidents occur that are actually avoidable, proves that people don't manage to handle most situations successfully..... Also, to state that it was "The kind of mistake no human driver would have made or put themselves in" is laughable since humans make that exact mistake on a daily basis.... Also, given the fact that the human driver in the truck managed to miss a bus behind him, who's to say that had the bus not been there, that same idiot truck driver could have possibly run over a human person? Happens on a regular basis.....

@sykozis so you want to tell me that there is no connection between the fact that people in the USA pay about 30$, drive around in the parking lot for their "test" to get their license, when someone in germany, for example, has to take theoretical classes for a minimum of 18hrs, needs to drive at least 20hrs, and a min 12 times outside town/city meaning on freeway (min 5 times), highway (min 4 times) and at night (min 3 times), and has to complete theoretical and driving tests (and thats in "real" everyday traffic) and a 2 day/weekend course of first-aid training? right. i have both, a german AND a US "license", so i do know a bit of what im talking about. not even comparing the difference in recommended/limits for speed. if you drive below the recommended speed of 80mph on a highway in germany (unless speed is restricted in any form), cops will pull you over. one reason im getting tired after driving for more than 2hrs on hwys in the US 😀

I am rather surprised that this is even being debated. Someone backed into a stationary vehicle, and the stationary vehicle is being blamed. what the hell are you people blaming the autonomous vehicle for? I think this is the next level of 'racism' or more like specism (Spellling???). Blame the machine,not the human for not compensating for the human error.

+1 the fact that they can even perform without most of the "info" usually available with traffic/roads, makes me think all issues are more software/execution related than when it comes to bare capabilities... 7 y ago audi had a TT drive up pikes peak without a driver. no signs, no markers or anything that really resembles a "normal" road. dont remember when exactly, but they also have tested on race tracks, and times are close to those of humans. they already implemented self-parking/pick-up for their cars (and plan on going towards the car doing stuff while you're at work). and even if its not implemented as us sitting in the backseat reading emails, just the restrictions that could be implemented would prevent a lot of bad things. e.g. car cant go faster than speed limit, maybe even based on weather/road conditions. and for ppl with cars that offer a bit more HP, you can go to a track, and Otto the autopilot turns off (gps based), and you can do what you want..

Clawedge:

I am rather surprised that this is even being debated. Someone backed into a stationary vehicle, and the stationary vehicle is being blamed. what the hell are you people blaming the autonomous vehicle for? I think this is the next level of 'racism' or more like specism (Spellling???). Blame the machine,not the human for not compensating for the human error.

I think it is more to do with what a human driver would have done in this instance rather than blaming the car, because according to reports the delivery lorry was backing into a alley and the robot car simply stopped too close to the lorry as it was backup and reversing into the alley, something most human drivers would never have done, i mean how many of us have stopped to let a lorry or car backup into say a delivery yard or parking space, but it seem this car was not able to deal with that kind of situation, which i would say makes it unfit to be on the road.

Clawedge:

I am rather surprised that this is even being debated. Someone backed into a stationary vehicle, and the stationary vehicle is being blamed. what the hell are you people blaming the autonomous vehicle for? I think this is the next level of 'racism' or more like specism (Spellling???). Blame the machine,not the human for not compensating for the human error.

no the racism comes from the truck driver yelling "they took are jobs they took are jobs" as he smashed the poor ai van.

cowie:

no the racism comes from the truck driver yelling "they took are jobs they took are jobs" as he smashed the poor ai van.

dude, i was thinking that exact thing when i was typing that first post.

Love how this Love how this thread separates the augmented and the purists. 🙂

fry178:

@sykozis so you want to tell me that there is no connection between the fact that people in the USA pay about 30$, drive around in the parking lot for their "test" to get their license, when someone in germany, for example, has to take theoretical classes for a minimum of 18hrs, needs to drive at least 20hrs, and a min 12 times outside town/city meaning on freeway (min 5 times), highway (min 4 times) and at night (min 3 times), and has to complete theoretical and driving tests (and thats in "real" everyday traffic) and a 2 day/weekend course of first-aid training? right. i have both, a german AND a US "license", so i do know a bit of what im talking about. not even comparing the difference in recommended/limits for speed. if you drive below the recommended speed of 80mph on a highway in germany (unless speed is restricted in any form), cops will pull you over. one reason im getting tired after driving for more than 2hrs on hwys in the US 😀

Driving around parking lots? In my state, if you take a "drivers education" course through the school system you spend 18 weeks in a classroom learning about laws and the basics of operating a motor vehicle. At some point after the start of the classroom course (for $30USD - $250USD depending on whether you choose the public course or a private driver's education school) you spend 1 week on a closed driving course (15 hours) followed by 1 week on city streets (15 hours), once you have obtained a "learner's permit" ($15USD [per attempt in some cases...]). Even a single moving violation results in failing the driving class, meaning no temporary license. Unless it's been changed, there is also a mandatory 6-month waiting period (increased back in 1995 from 4 months) between the time you obtain a "learner's permit" and being eligible to obtain a temporary driver's license, during which time it's the responsibility of the parents to instruct the child on how to safely and properly operate a motor vehicle, using their own vehicles. If you receive a citation between the date of receiving your "learner's permit" and your assigned court date, the judge can suspend your ability to receive a permanent license for up to 2 years depending on the citation, or in rare occasions, revoke your ability to obtain a license. At the age of 18, any person permitted to obtain a license can report to the local "department of motor vehicles" facility, take a written knowledge assessment test and (for $50USD) take a skills assessment test that requires driving a path determined by the moderator of said test. That allows for someone to skip taking the "driver's education" course but still requires driving on city streets. At no point can you obtain a license in my state simply by driving around a parking lot. My state has no mandate for what roads must be driven on or what time of day the driving experience must be gained during as there's no way to prove that such guidelines are followed without invading privacy. There is a requirement for immediate family members to be age 18 or older and non-immediate family members to be age 21 or older. There is no such thing as a "US driver's license".... In the US, the ability to obtain a driver's license is controlled by each individual state who sets their own requirements for obtaining a license. Unless you've obtained a license in all 50 US states and all 5 US territories, you have very limited knowledge of the requirements to obtain a license, like the vast majority of US citizens. In my state, the legal minimum speed on the "interstate" or "highway" is 20mph below the posted speed limit unless police feel your speed is creating a hazard for other drivers.

XP-200:

I think it is more to do with what a human driver would have done in this instance rather than blaming the car, because according to reports the delivery lorry was backing into a alley and the robot car simply stopped too close to the lorry as it was backup and reversing into the alley, something most human drivers would never have done, i mean how many of us have stopped to let a lorry or car backup into say a delivery yard or parking space, but it seem this car was not able to deal with that kind of situation, which i would say makes it unfit to be on the road.

Just because a rational person wouldn't make such a mistake, doesn't mean an irrational or otherwise impaired person wouldn't have done the same. People do stupid things all the time. People in my neighborhood drive down the wrong side of the road all the time, but blame the other drivers when they're almost hit head-on. People in my neighborhood also have a habit of trying to drive against the curb (sometimes it's the curb on the wrong side of the road). I've had people yell at me when they almost hit my trash can. My street is 4 lanes wide. 2 lanes for parking and 2 lanes for driving. If they're close enough to the curb for my trash can to get in their way, it's their fault, regardless of which side of the road they're supposed to be driving on.

@sykozis it was about the european vs us(a) license, not more. and since i didnt get one in every stat, yes, my knowledge is limited, as i dont care to know more about it, since driving in this country for +10y shows me its not anywhere close to what you have to do outside the USA to get one. the MD one i have, required a driver's test in the parking lot of the MVA, without any real world traffic. im not saying there arent a few states that (now) do better, but i know that if i ask 100ppl out of every state what your supposed to do when parking a car at a hill, i doubt +80% will tell me that: you put it in P (1st gear for manual), steering wheel gets turned completely towards the curb, and handbrake gets pulled/activated. or just the fact that you learn and test on a manual transmission, not automatic. no matter if you will drive automatic later or not. and its one reason why ppl laugh when someone in a (hollywood) movie tries to drive a (real) truck that has manual gears...

sykozis:

Just because a rational person wouldn't make such a mistake, doesn't mean an irrational or otherwise impaired person wouldn't have done the same. People do stupid things all the time. People in my neighborhood drive down the wrong side of the road all the time, but blame the other drivers when they're almost hit head-on. People in my neighborhood also have a habit of trying to drive against the curb (sometimes it's the curb on the wrong side of the road). I've had people yell at me when they almost hit my trash can. My street is 4 lanes wide. 2 lanes for parking and 2 lanes for driving. If they're close enough to the curb for my trash can to get in their way, it's their fault, regardless of which side of the road they're supposed to be driving on.

But this is not about people being bad drivers, this is about a computer that can't deal with a simple situation as another vehicle reversing into a alley in front of it for whatever reason, and if it can't really deal with something as simple as that then possibly it shoud not be on the road in the first place, i mean as you say, the roads are full of bad drivers, do we really need to add to that pool with bad computer drivers. lol

as mentioned before, looks more of a problem with software/given instructions/rules, rather than capability