No, no it's really not. No matter what sort of tinkering I've done with these ALC solutions it's always sounded like horse crap in comparison to my SB ZxR. That includes the latest ones. An external DAC would have to be used with an amp, so that wouldn't leave any reason for a sound card aside from price.

Original post was about a SbZ not a ZXR. Those are two completely different animals. And i missed a bit in the second part. I was meaning to say audiophiles will use external DAC with amp over a PCIe card.

Was pleased to see a pair of M.2 slots as many AMD boards seem to only include one. Then noticed that the second one was horribly restricted.

A single 960 EVO's read speeds can saturate pretty much the entire x4 bus link between the chipset and the CPU on the Z270, so the second slot doesn't really add any speed when doing simultaneous read/write ops (e.g. typical real world use cases, not benchmarks that do only read or writes at one time). Once the cheaper cards catch up, the entire subject will be moot until someone gives us a chipset that either gives each NVMe slot its own bus to the CPU or the bus link to the chipset gets increased to x8. So, unless you wanted that second one just for capacity reasons (which is of course a valid reason to want one), no need to fret over only having one slot at this point.

No, no it's really not. No matter what sort of tinkering I've done with these ALC solutions it's always sounded like horse crap in comparison to my SB ZxR. That includes the latest ones. An external DAC would have to be used with an amp, so that wouldn't leave any reason for a sound card aside from price.

http://www.techradar.com/reviews/pc-mac/pc-components/sound-cards/creative-sound-blaster-recon3d-pcie-1085899/review

We disliked The trouble is, in practice, there's nothing exciting about the sound quality at all, and the certainly not enough to justify the price. If you're spending this much, go the whole hog and get an X-Fi Titanium HD for just a little more – it may not be designed for gaming, but it sounds great. Verdict It's not that the Recon3D is a bad card, but as a major new release from Creative perhaps we just expected too much of it. There's nothing that would convince us to upgrade from a decent X-Fi, and coming from on-board sound you can get better for less.

Guess what's difference between this sound card and yours... Yes, same chip, different power transistors. And then there is that b*tchy DT990 of yours. They not only fail at reproducing source way it comes, but because you may have 250 or 600ohm version, you need adequate amp or soundcard with one built in. In other words, If I plugged your headphones into my poor ALC chip based soundcard, I would switch output power transistor route from one used for 64ohms to 300ohms or 600ohms. Then I would have to sit and listen and boost/dampen certain frequency ranges. And only after that there would be acceptable sound coming from those DT990. (not needed on headphones which I would call great) - - - - Unless he have super expensive speakers, he may not even notice other difference than tendency of one card to produce more massive bass than another. If it is about headphones, then power transistors affect sound more than entire chip.

Like pretty much every other onboard solution: It would lose horribly. Any fancy pants onboard sound you see these days is just a name and some software dumped on top of the standard run-of-the-mill ALC whatever junk. In this case the ALC 1220: http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/X370%20Taichi/index.us.asp

Maybe, 1220 should be better according to some user reviews and at least on ROG CROSSHAIR VI HERO they use ESS Sabre DAC which should sound much better. Not that I care about onboard audio much when using HDMI audio stream to AV receiver wich sound much better 🙂

i think the Taichi has the best aestethics of the premium Mb`s and the only one with wifi and 16PP, and they are really afordable compared to asus and msi atleast where i live. Anyone that has done any oc on asrock premium mb`s? I really hope Hilbert does a review on this one.

i think the Taichi has the best aestethics of the premium Mb`s and the only one with wifi and 16PP, and they are really afordable compared to asus and msi atleast where i live. Anyone that has done any oc on asrock premium mb`s? I really hope Hilbert does a review on this one.

Hi there I have ASRock X99 Extreme6 which is one awesome board, friend have X99 Taichi board and he is too very happy no issues We are both have OC our 5820k to 4.5Ghz with very similar vCore voltages, just difference is he can OC too cache Personally I'm looking at ASRock boards for my 1800x, just hope so there will be EATX board and Extreme versions as well I don't want go route of the Asus or MSI boards, personally I want go route of ASRock, have right now which is awesome board Hope this helps Thanks, Jura

Hi there I have ASRock X99 Extreme6 which is one awesome board, friend have X99 Taichi board and he is too very happy no issues We are both have OC our 5820k to 4.5Ghz with very similar vCore voltages, just difference is he can OC too cache Personally I'm looking at ASRock boards for my 1800x, just hope so there will be EATX board and Extreme versions as well I don't want go route of the Asus or MSI boards, personally I want go route of ASRock, have right now which is awesome board Hope this helps Thanks, Jura

It does help, and thanks for the answer 🙂 never touched an asrock mb so it was of great assistance Jura 🙂 its 40€ cheaper than the asus and 70€ than msi i just hope Hilbert puts it through the paces

It does help, and thanks for the answer 🙂 never touched an asrock mb so it was of great assistance Jura 🙂 its 40€ cheaper than the asus and 70€ than msi i just hope Hilbert puts it through the paces

Hi there Over here Taichi cost £224, MSI XPOWER Titanium cost most £298, Asus Crosshair cost £249,there are few between,but ASRock do have probably best features like 10 SATA which I would need, but still not enough PCI-E slots, I would love board with at least 5 PCI-E slots In my case I will be waiting on Extreme or I will be buying too Taichi as well I suspect there will be few reviews of boards after lifting NDA, you will see but would be just perfect if HH will put these boards through the paces Hope this helps Thanks, Jura

http://www.techradar.com/reviews/pc-mac/pc-components/sound-cards/creative-sound-blaster-recon3d-pcie-1085899/review Guess what's difference between this sound card and yours... Yes, same chip, different power transistors. And then there is that b*tchy DT990 of yours. They not only fail at reproducing source way it comes, but because you may have 250 or 600ohm version, you need adequate amp or soundcard with one built in.

More like that's the only thing they have in common. Everything else is completely different. They're not comparable in quality at all, just like an ALC onboard solution the Recon 3D can't be adjusted to sound like a ZxR. Meanwhile all these ALC whatever boards labeled as premium sound all use junk parts from beginning to end. And I'm not a moron, I didn't try using my 250 Ohm DT990 on an ALC chipset, I used 26 Ohm headphones on those, and they sounded horrendous no matter what I tried, compared to what they sounded like on my ZxR.

Like pretty much every other onboard solution: It would lose horribly. Any fancy pants onboard sound you see these days is just a name and some software dumped on top of the standard run-of-the-mill ALC whatever junk. In this case the ALC 1220: http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/X370%20Taichi/index.us.asp

Yeah, I guess my SBZ would sound better anyway. Ofc I could try both and see what sounds best to me. Would save me another x1 slot. I love the headphone jack on the SBZ though, so I think I already answered my question. Most onboard solutions don't have that. :stewpid:

Yeah, I guess my SBZ would sound better anyway. Ofc I could try both and see what sounds best to me. Would save me another x1 slot. I love the headphone jack on the SBZ though, so I think I already answered my question. Most onboard solutions don't have that. :stewpid:

If you're concerned about sound quality I highly recommend getting an external DAC and amp if it fits in your budget. The ZxR's quality is great and all, but I regret not spending more for a proper DAC/Amp solution due to all the software issues I've ran into. It'd be great to be free of drivers in general, aside from bugs and being stuck with just Windows support, the ZxR will inevitably become obsolete due to a lack of drivers. That's unless MS truly go the Apple route and forever just update Win 10 like OS X.

More like that's the only thing they have in common. Everything else is completely different. They're not comparable in quality at all, just like an ALC onboard solution the Recon 3D can't be adjusted to sound like a ZxR. Meanwhile all these ALC whatever boards labeled as premium sound all use junk parts from beginning to end. And I'm not a moron, I didn't try using my 250 Ohm DT990 on an ALC chipset, I used 26 Ohm headphones on those, and they sounded horrendous no matter what I tried, compared to what they sounded like on my ZxR.

Quite a contradiction, isn't it? 1st you confirm that your and that poor card are very different and only thing they share is sound chip itself. (I agree here, because it is all electronics around what ensures that sound does not end muffled.) Then you say that it is actually ALC chip which made horrendous sound in comparison to yours. And on top of that, your statement: "Meanwhile all these ALC whatever boards labeled as premium sound all use junk parts from beginning to end." Really? So, if card like Xonar Essence ST used ALC. Would it automatically have junk parts to produce sound? - Like PCM1792A DAC? While ZxR uses PCM1798. (PCM1792A has 4dB better SnR, and is controlled digitally via I2C instead of voltage controlled PCM1798. And on top of that PCM1792A has additional TDMCA/DSD Support.) - Like TPA6120A2 Headphone AMP? Same as ZxR. - Like JRC2114D power Amps? Same as ZxR. - Like LM4562 power amp? Vs LME49710 on ZxR? They are same in build, and are same as LME49720. (So as you go to upgrade, just do not move to same chip with different name.) - Nichicon capacitors? Same as ZxR. ======== So, would Essence ST had bad audio if it used ALC chip? Well, maybe: - Essence uses NEC relays while ZxR uses TAKAMISAWA (unfortunately even on head-fi nobody really cares about either as they are not affecting sound) ======== And as for that Chip on ZxR, it is actually reason why Creative is not popular. It is software based chip with removed features which made those chips great in past. X-Fi Ti-HD has in all aspects better chip. If audio output from sound card goes into repro ten X-Fi Ti-HD pisses all over ZxR. And if it is about headphones, then ZxR has slight advantage of internal AMP, but once X-Fi Ti-HD has external amp... previous repeats. ======== So, No! You do not have best sound card ever, nor headphones. Me neither. And going around, telling people that: "all other sound card are trash..." actually tells something about you. ======== And finally thing you missed (which is damn hard to do): Audio color, balance, clarity, ... are subjects of preference. If I look at integrated ALC1150 and consider its audio quality, I would look at components around it which do heavy lifting.

Quite a contradiction, isn't it? 1st you confirm that your and that poor card are very different and only thing they share is sound chip itself. (I agree here, because it is all electronics around what ensures that sound does not end muffled.) Then you say that it is actually ALC chip which made horrendous sound in comparison to yours.

You're arguing semantics and trying to cherry pick poor wording. I was referring to the ALC chip set as the entire thing as a whole not just the ALC chip itself because I don't know what the hell to call the entire thing.

And on top of that, your statement: "Meanwhile all these ALC whatever boards labeled as premium sound all use junk parts from beginning to end." Really? So, card like Xonar Essence ST used ALC. Would it automatically have junk parts to produce sound? - Like PCM1792A DAC? While ZxR uses PCM1798. (PCM1792A has 4dB better SnR, and is controlled digitally via I2C instead of voltage controlled PCM1798. And on top of that PCM1792A has additional TDMCA/DSD Support.) - Like TPA6120A2 Headphone AMP? Same as ZxR. - Like JRC2114D power Amps? Same as ZxR. - Like LM4562 power amp? Vs LME49710 on ZxR? They are same in build, and are same as LME49720. (So as you go to upgrade, just do not move to same chip with different name.) - Nichicon capacitors? Same as ZxR. ======== So, would Essence ST had bad audio if it used ALC chip? Well, maybe: - Essence uses NEC relays while ZxR uses TAKAMISAWA (unfortunately even on head-fi nobody really cares about either as they are not affecting sound) ========

What are you rambling on about the Xonar Essence ST is (was?) an expensive sound card with mostly premium parts, no onboard solution, using an ALC chip or otherwise, is anywhere remotely in that same category. When did I talk about "sound cards" I was explicitly talking about onboard solutions.

And as for that Chip on ZxR, it is actually reason why Creative is not popular. It is software based chip with removed features which made those chips great in past. X-Fi Ti-HD has in all aspects better chip. If audio output from sound card does into repro ten X-Fi Ti-HD pisses all over ZxR. And if it is about headphones, then ZxR has slight advantage of internal AMP, but once X-Fi Ti-HD has external amp... previous repeats. ======== So, No! You do not have best sound card ever, nor headphones. Me neither. And going around, telling people that: "all other sound card are trash..." actually tells something about you. ======== And finally thing you missed (which is damn hard to do): Audio color, balance, clarity, ... are subjects of preference. If I look at integrated ALC1150 and consider its audio quality, I would look at components around it which do heavy lifting.

Are you high or something? You're imagining things that I never said. Who the hell ever talked about "best" anything? And clarity is not "subjective". It's measurable, quantifiable, not an opinion. How close to the original signal at any frequency something comes out can be measured. I have no idea what you're even rambling on about, the crap you said doesn't even relate to anything I was talking about. It sounds to me like your English is not all that great and you got angry thinking I was saying everything ALC based is bad. Onboard solutions suck and sound like trash, objectively, quantifiably, trash which can be measured. Don't get all angry because your card happens to contain the same chip then go on a nonsensical rant with some story you imagined I said.

What are you rambling on about the Xonar Essence ST is (was?) an expensive sound card with mostly premium parts, no onboard solution, using an ALC chip or otherwise, is anywhere remotely in that same category. When did I talk about "sound cards" I was explicitly talking about onboard solutions.

But is Essence ST or ZxR great for having AV100 or Sound Core3D? No, there are pretty poor cards with same chips. And cost is mostly everything around those core chips. And If either of ours cards was driven by ALC, it would be damn similar in audio output. While you believe that ALC would sound worse, double blind test may surprise you.

I have no idea what you're even rambling on about, the crap you said doesn't even relate to anything I was talking about. It sounds to me like your English is not all that great and you got angry thinking I was saying everything ALC based is bad. Onboard solutions suck and sound like trash, objectively, quantifiably, trash which can be measured. Don't get all angry because your card happens to contain the same chip then go on a nonsensical rant with some story you imagined I said.

They're not comparable in quality at all, just like an ALC onboard solution the Recon 3D can't be adjusted to sound like a ZxR. Meanwhile all these ALC whatever boards labeled as premium sound all use junk parts from beginning to end.

Sure, you did not meant it. Sure you did not use words: "ALL", "Boards", "junk" and "from beginning to end".

But is Essence ST or ZxR great for having AV100 or Sound Core3D? No, there are pretty poor cards with same chips. And cost is mostly everything around those core chips. And If either of ours cards was driven by ALC, it would be damn similar in audio output. While you believe that ALC would sound worse, double blind test may surprise you.

I'm not even sure what you're trying to say. But to be perfectly clear I never even tried to imply something is good or bad purely on what core chip it uses as a part of the set. I was saying all these onboard solutions can't compare to a proper sound card.

Sure, you did not meant it. Sure you did not use words: "ALL", "Boards", "junk" and "from beginning to end".

I'm assuming you're sarcastically saying "sure you didn't mean it". Yeah, that's NOT what I meant. When I said "boards" I was referring to motherboards using the ALC chips as a part of an onboard solution. Which should have been pretty clear based on context and the fact that you won't see someone refer to a sound card as a board. If I was going to abbreviate "sound card" I would have called it a "card", not a board. We're not in disagreement on much at all, you just misunderstood what I was saying and took at as something completely different and got mad over actually nothing. It's okay to be wrong and admit you misunderstood. I don't care, no one cares, English isn't everyone's first language and things like this can be ambiguous for some. It's not a big deal.

I'm not even sure what you're trying to say. But to be perfectly clear I never even tried to imply something is good or bad purely on what core chip it uses as a part of the set. I was saying all these onboard solutions can't compare to a proper sound card. I'm assuming you're sarcastically saying "sure you didn't mean it". Yeah, that's NOT what I meant. When I said "boards" I was referring to motherboards using the ALC chips as a part of an onboard solution. Which should have been pretty clear based on context and the fact that you won't see someone refer to a sound card as a board. If I was going to abbreviate "sound card" I would have called it a "card", not a board. We're not in disagreement on much at all, you just misunderstood what I was saying and took at as something completely different and got mad over actually nothing. It's okay to be wrong and admit you misunderstood. I don't care, no one cares, English isn't everyone's first language and things like this can be ambiguous for some. It's not a big deal.

No we are not disagreeing much. But it remains that you throw all ALC integrated solutions under bus. I would do it very individually as it is about components around. And many would come out as damn decent even in comparison to dedicated sound cards sold today. We do not even know what amps, DAC, ... they use. And some integrated solutions copied idea of having amps replaceable. 10 years ago, I would completely agree. But in last few years things are changing for integrated sound.

where all x300 mobos? That is the only one reasonable chipset to whoever want to properly customize their setup.

5 Gigabit internet sounds really nice until you release all your ISP's suck in your country and not a single one sells 1Gigabit internet let alone 5 🙁

5 Gigabit internet sounds really nice until you release all your ISP's suck in your country and not a single one sells 1Gigabit internet let alone 5 🙁

It could be good for office NAS or LAN with proper infrastructure. But, 5Gb network for mere consumers? No, it's just ASRock making customer pay more by adding all expensive crap on it. Kids be like "My mobo got 5Gigabit speed, owning noobs never been so easy".