I'm suspicious of all pizzerias advising the removal of security software too

That was a personal opinion of one of previous Mozilla programmers. I'm sure it is not official statement from Mozilla foundation That said, I agree with that guy completely.

this is THE malware OS 🙂 (share everything with us... it's for your happyness)

The only other serious solution would be something like ElementaryOS, Zorin, or Mint.

The only other serious solution would be something like ElementaryOS, Zorin, or Mint.

If security and/or anonymity is what you want, neither Elementary or Mint would be my top picks. Elementary is too primitive and Mint is too commercialized.

For casual browsing Elementary is just fine.

Spot on, best protection is a hardened system and a default deny everything new on the system and run in an isolated sandbox instead. One can then do the needed research to validate and white-list what may be safe. Traditional AV protection doesn't really help against fresh new code and HIPS have their weaknesses too, a virtual sandbox can be hacked of cause, but it's way harder than working around other protection.

Not spot on at all, you seem to forget that not everyone knows computers. The majority of people that use a computer would not understand a word you just said!

Not spot on at all, you seem to forget that not everyone knows computers.

How do you not see the flaw in this? If someone doesn't know how to use a computer to the point that they can't use common sense, they WILL do something stupid that their AV will not protect against. The fact of the matter is, stupidity shouldn't be encouraged. I see no problem in having something like a firewall or a very lean AV program that just simply protects you from security leaks or malicious people (in other words, things out of your control) but protecting people's ability to remain ignorant is a serious problem. To put it in another perspective, take car ownership for example. There is a slew of bad behaviors that people do on a regular basis, such as: * People who don't change their filters or fluids at specified intervals * Starting the car and immediately driving off * For manuals, using the clutch to hold the car still when stopped on a hill * For automatics, changing from R to D (or vise versa) before the car came to a complete stop * Not getting the brakes checked after they start squeaking on a regular basis * Ignoring check engine indicators Some of these are things that can kill people or the vehicle itself. Without a dealership or local mechanic calling in to remind people that these things need to be checked out, many people would never address them. When it comes to your well being (whether that's money or your life) or someone else's, ignorance is not something that should be "treated"; it should be corrected.

The fact of the matter is, stupidity shouldn't be encouraged. I see no problem in having something like a firewall or a very lean AV program that just simply protects you from security leaks or malicious people (in other words, things out of your control) but protecting people's ability to remain ignorant is a serious problem.

You're right stupidity shouldn't be encouraged but it wont go away by ignoring it or telling people they shouldn't be stupid. The people with the know how, should help protect the people that don't know how.

You're right stupidity shouldn't be encouraged but it wont go away by ignoring it or telling people they shouldn't be stupid. The people with the know how, should help protect the people that don't know how.

Home PCs are cheap these days. Worst case scenario, someone ruins Windows, doesn't know how to repair it, and buys a new PC. People learn best from experiences. They won't learn that they're doing anything wrong if their wrongdoings are hidden from them, and they won't know they're doing anything wrong when their AV doesn't detect it. Of course, neither of those statements are always true, but they happen often enough.

Home PCs are cheap these days. Worst case scenario, someone ruins Windows, doesn't know how to repair it, and buys a new PC. People learn best from experiences. They won't learn that they're doing anything wrong if their wrongdoings are hidden from them, and they won't know they're doing anything wrong when their AV doesn't detect it. Of course, neither of those statements are always true, but they happen often enough.

No, worst case scenario, someone gets infected has their bank/personal details stolen/loses their personal info, ruins windows, doesn't know how or why it happened, doesn't know how to find out what they did wrong, buys a new computer and repeats the whole process over again because this particular user is 76 years old and can't be taught what google search result links are safe or not. If it was easy as you say, virus infections would be on the decline as people gained the knowledge through their previous bad experiences, but that's not what is happening!

No, worst case scenario, someone gets infected has their bank/personal details stolen/loses their personal info, ruins windows, doesn't know how or why it happened, doesn't know how to find out what they did wrong, buys a new computer and repeats the whole process over again because this particular user is 76 years old and can't be taught what google search result links are safe or not. If it was easy as you say, ***** and virus infections would be on the decline as people gained the knowledge through their previous bad experiences.

Again, AV programs don't fully protect against stupidity, so often it doesn't matter if they had this protection in the first place. So in the eyes of the ignorant, how will they get anything out of that experience? As far as they're concerned, they were protected from malware, so they just think their actions were due to being hacked (which wasn't the case). In other words, they will continue to do their stupid behavior. Also, as far as I can tell, viral infections are definitely on the decline. Computer repair shops are closing left and right because malware just doesn't really come up often. Hardware failure have never really been all that common, so their business was primarily based on fixing issues in Windows. Ironically, the 2nd most common reason people went to these places were because their PCs were running slow, often directly because of AV programs soaking up system resources, or, getting infections that their AV programs didn't detect.

Also, as far as I can tell, viral infections are definitely on the decline.

Now you're just being silly

It's not like how it was a decade ago though. The average PC user and even moreso the idiot PC user is protected best by not touching or changing a thing in Windows, as the minute they start messing with stuff and installing other stuff they will no doubt make things worse. The more experienced person can experiment, not the 76 year who just wants things simple.

if you have a (separate) firewall that does packet inspection, you can filter out ( & block/reject ) any traffic that is not definition updates between your pc and the av companies server(s). sometimes also the definitions are pulled by a different exe than the main program (for security reasons). if you can identify that usage traffic goes through the main program exe you can simply blacklist that exe in your firewall.

Again, AV programs don't fully protect against stupidity, so often it doesn't matter if they had this protection in the first place. So in the eyes of the ignorant, how will they get anything out of that experience? As far as they're concerned, they were protected from malware, so they just think their actions were due to being hacked (which wasn't the case). In other words, they will continue to do their stupid behavior. Also, as far as I can tell, viral infections are definitely on the decline. Computer repair shops are closing left and right because malware just doesn't really come up often. Hardware failure have never really been all that common, so their business was primarily based on fixing issues in Windows. Ironically, the 2nd most common reason people went to these places were because their PCs were running slow, often directly because of AV programs soaking up system resources, or, getting infections that their AV programs didn't detect.

Stupidity? Really? Who are you that you think you know all about other people by 100%? If someone has not 100% knowledge of all the things acting around him, he is stupid? If the PC is infected the "hardest" part is a crashed windows? :bang: OMFG! Do you really know of what you talk about? It doesn't look so.. for sure!

Not spot on at all, you seem to forget that not everyone knows computers. The majority of people that use a computer would not understand a word you just said!

No I didn't forget. If you don't know what your touching you simple just leave it until you educated yourself.

My AV isn't even listed so I may not have to worry.

Stupidity? Really? Who are you that you think you know all about other people by 100%? If someone has not 100% knowledge of all the things acting around him, he is stupid?

I have done computer repair for decades. I currently work in IT in an office. Yes, people can be pretty stupid sometimes. I'm not just talking about blissful ignorance, but intentional disregard for what they should or shouldn't be doing. I'm not expecting people to be 100% knowledgeable. I can admit myself I am far from perfect at understanding things. There are plenty of moments I don't know how to do something. The difference is knowing how to PROPERLY utilize a machine vs using it because you can. Again, look at my car analogy. Some people really shouldn't be allowed to drive considering their poor habits. That being said, I expect people who use computers to be at least 5% knowledgeable. I expect people to know how to utilize every common graphical feature, the basic idea of external hardware (like USB, monitor, modem, router, etc), understanding common keywords (for example as "download" vs "install"), and to understand that being reckless in the "cyber world" can be just as dangerous as being reckless in the real world. It's not a very high expectation, but again, people shouldn't be allowed to use important machines they don't understand anything about.

If the PC is infected the "hardest" part is a crashed windows? :bang: OMFG! Do you really know of what you talk about? It doesn't look so.. for sure!

I meant in terms of using a PC, not their overall life... So yeah, Windows crashing or failing to boot tends to be the worst of malware problems. You sure seem to talk a lot of trash without backing up anything you say.

Internet today is so mainstream and almost mandatory to use, and the average user should not be expected to be protected just by using common sense. Having an Antivirus installed at least shows they are concerned about having protection. Whether Antiviruses themselves are good or bad is something the security profession will have to continue probing into. There is alot that the average user just cannot do anything about regarding security. One example during the recent years would be the vulnerabilities discovered in various routers.

There is alot that the average user just cannot do anything about regarding security. One example during the recent years would be the vulnerabilities discovered in various routers.

That's because Windows for PC has crap-default protection settings. Using third party crapware that cause more security and privacy and overhead and costs issues instead of imposing Microsoft to change their default settings is damn stupid.

Internet today is so mainstream and almost mandatory to use, and the average user should not be expected to be protected just by using common sense. Having an Antivirus installed at least shows they are concerned about having protection. Whether Antiviruses themselves are good or bad is something the security profession will have to continue probing into. There is alot that the average user just cannot do anything about regarding security. One example during the recent years would be the vulnerabilities discovered in various routers.

As I said before, I think it is a good idea to have certain levels of protection to prevent things out of your control, regardless of how good you are at avoiding issues. For me personally, I still don't care about installing anything like that because I'll just reinstall the OS if I really need to. But generally speaking, you'll be safe if you: * Keep all of your software up-to-date * Don't make enemies who know your IP address * Avoid forwarding common ports * Disable things like remote access or remote registry * Avoid using Windows in general * Use common sense