I hope AMD will call it what it is rather than "ray tracing"--most people don't know what ray tracing is--I hate to see any industry capitalize on customer ignorance (like Apple, for instance.) One comment I read, the guy thought "ray tracing" was "using a bunch of shaders," lol...;) It's too bad the FTC isn't up on 3d tech, or computer tech in general--there'd be a bunch of false advertising fines being levied, no doubt about it. I think support for DTX in d3d is fine--so long as it isn't called "real-time ray tracing." I so loathe buzzwords. Always have. My cross to bear, I guess.

waltc3:

I hope AMD will call it what it is rather than "ray tracing"--most people don't know what ray tracing is--I hate to see any industry capitalize on customer ignorance (like Apple, for instance.) One comment I read, the guy thought "ray tracing" was "using a bunch of shaders," lol...;) It's too bad the FTC isn't up on 3d tech, or computer tech in general--there'd be a bunch of false advertising fines being levied, no doubt about it. I think support for DTX in d3d is fine--so long as it isn't called "real-time ray tracing." I so loathe buzzwords. Always have. My cross to bear, I guess.

To be frank all of this ray tracing is only Ray-tracing like effect (I like it a lot). To put into perspective: Now pick some 3DsMax and make ray-traced image 😉 -> at 1440p it takes some time to out-put only 1 image. Side note: DirectX DXR - I call it Path-Tracing (IMhO ATI/AMD will call it that way or Radeon||Rays done by Async shaders is Real Time)

they already lose

Writing already on the wall. RT games on console will simply port over to PC with Radeon cards capable of supporting it. If AMD were shrewd they will make Nvidia support "difficult". RTX will have a few exclusive titles with RT and as long as they are single player people will use them. If it's MP, even if they have RTX cards they will disable it just like they did in BFV. Better yet, Assetto Corsa Competizione also has RT support but they haven't released it yet either. Last I heard about it was Last August 2018. Therefore, nothing new. Same ole same ole.

What is currently being done on GPUs is really a type of hybrid or only partially denoised ray tracing at best. It's really misleading, but that's what marketers are paid to do I guess. AMD & their partners forming the complete gaming ecosystem should make sure ti be really ready before releasing, nvidia isn't going anywhere with their hack job anyways.

....well, (s)talking about ray-tracing.... In Metro Exodus, i've seen how the game engine "mimics" hardware based raytracing (not fully but more or less) with non-rtx gpu cards....(also in Shadow of Tomb Raider)...... ...and that reminds me of : https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/video-crytek-cryengine-raytracing-technology-demo-(runs-on-radeon-rx-vega-56).html

There is a very eloquent way AMD can do this. A. Let consoles release Next Gen Games B. Create and Market an AMD PC Ecosystem Marketing Strategy: "Buy a Ryzen 3000 series 8/16 cpu (and higher) along with a x570 and Navi GPU and we guarantee Best Performance & Compatibility in these Games (Console to PC games)" Campaign. C. Lock Down PC Port Games via PowerShell. D. Make Nvidia release driver "Fixes" for those Ported PC games with/without Ray tracing. Because they simply don't work. Amd response, "You know...because all we do is copy pasta from Console to Power Shell." E. Profit

Whatever AMD ends up doing with RT, I hope it's not totally separate hardware that would then be sitting doing nothing when RT is not enabled. That way people would basically be able to choose between 4k60 or 1080p+RT.

Like anything else, RT also needs hardware acceleration. It's been same with SM2 and early pixel shaders. It was either WSXGA+ or XGA or even smaller with shaders. But then everyone quickly forgot about how it was without shaders. With growing density there is now a huge space for far more RT cores. And with lighting switching over to RT, we don't need that much of shader cores now. So rapid shader core count growth is probably coming to an end.

waltc3:

I hope AMD will call it what it is rather than "ray tracing"--most people don't know what ray tracing is--I hate to see any industry capitalize on customer ignorance (like Apple, for instance.) One comment I read, the guy thought "ray tracing" was "using a bunch of shaders," lol...;) It's too bad the FTC isn't up on 3d tech, or computer tech in general--there'd be a bunch of false advertising fines being levied, no doubt about it. I think support for DTX in d3d is fine--so long as it isn't called "real-time ray tracing." I so loathe buzzwords. Always have. My cross to bear, I guess.

But it is Ray Tracing, performed in Real-Time (anything what GPUs do is), its just Hybrid Ray Tracing where only some parts of the image are computed that way, and not the entire thing, since that would be too slow. But it is Ray Tracing nontheless. The tech is however capable of rendering a scene entirely using Ray Tracing, accelerated at that with RTX, as shown by the Quake 2 Ray-Tracing demo. It would just be too slow for modern scenes, hence only using it partially.

The PCs Nvidia though, so the games will be RTX'd for them, not AMD'd RT. :P

As much as i'm hyped for AMD CPU, and new lithography, i really wonder what to expect from their GPU with the various people that left for Intel in the recent years.

Xbox's E3 just confirmed HW Raytracing. Get ready for some AMD shade... It's "rumored" that the Slipspace Engine does support DXR. Guess what game that belongs to?

Strange Times:

they already lose

loloolololol

Eastcoasthandle:

Xbox's E3 just confirmed HW Raytracing. Get ready for some AMD shade... It's "rumored" that the Slipspace Engine does support DXR. Guess what game that belongs to?

navi doesn't have hardware raytracing, so whatever the xbox is doing its repurposing general purpose shaderst to do it.

Grumpymangrumbling2019:

remind me again what ray tracing does because im having trouble understanding the benefits over traditional techniques. [youtube=HqJaHYyY6Z0]

No need to fake reflection. Basically everything happening naturally with ray tracing. Probably will safe developers time, not trying to mess with shaders to create similar results. This is the future, just a matter of time when the majority of engines will switch over to it. (Once hardware is fast enough and implementation is smooth)

Vulcan is open source. Vulkan is derived from and built upon components of AMD's Mantle API, which was donated by AMD ! https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/Vulkan_(API).html [youtube=WyWfZKswWqY]

thats a half-truth perpetuated by angry amd fanboys. vulkan adopted some of mantles feature set when it was provided but it began as OpenGL Next and was already very low level before mantle was even a concept. https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTc2Mzc

XenthorX:

As much as i'm hyped for AMD CPU, and new lithography, i really wonder what to expect from their GPU with the various people that left for Intel in the recent years.

Took me 2 weeks to design GPU architecture. Or is that just what you think it took? Navi was done long time before even Raja left. And he was not even working on it. (Which may be one of reasons why he left. RDNA Navi development started moment Polaris was done which is exactly same time as start of GCN Vega development and Raja was to work on Vega... left behind.) So, can you compile all those AMD's people who left for intel? And then describe how essential they were for Navi?

Astyanax:

thats a half-truth perpetuated by angry amd fanboys. vulkan adopted some of mantles feature set when it was provided but it began as OpenGL Next and was already very low level before mantle was even a concept. https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTc2Mzc

I remember talk of Khronos Group tech people praising AMD for enabling them to drastically speedup development. But hey, take written word of Phoronix instead of spoken word of actual person doing the job. Statistically, Phoronix is more often wrong in their statements than Adored TV in his speculations. And that's rather tragic. Because Adored makes his claims based on information from random people who may just manipulate him. But Phoronix makes conclusions based on actual data which they misrepresent.

When it was presented, I figured that RTX was a software approach based on IA and tensor cores, that multiplicates few rays and denoises them after, and their hardware being a way to capitalize their Volta tensor cores. I don't know, maybe is the best way to do it, or at least the more elegant, to ditch now-classic shaders and use a mix with many more tensor cores in future cards. Fully Ray tracing a complete escene is demanding on compute, and doing it brute force and expecting it to be playable it's not possible today. RTRT is the future, but RTX approach is dependant on IA propietary software that won't be freed by its owner and it could became a relic sooner than later. Talking about AMD, if Samsung will use RDNA on their mobiles, there is a possibility for it to use IA. New consoles will do it too, but keeping compatibility with actual games will be easier if its hardware compatible too. Is difficult to predict how it will be before knowing more about, but I will always bet on open source ways, and I hope at least one contender will do it (Intel will join and they are talking about IA too) Maybe? 🙄 PS: remember that today's RTX can only be done in few reflections or few light sources, but not together, so it will be needed a much powerfull technology to do so, and I can't imagine about render a complete game.