Noisiv:

No it doesn't.

Obviously didn't mean it in an absolute 100% sense. Compared to traditional ransoms it's a galaxy more difficult for cops to deal with.

Noisiv:

Obviously false. Ransoms did not suddenly begin with the invention of Bitcoin.

Obviously true, these ransoms skyrocketed after Crypto became sought after, stop trying to pass it off as nothing.

Noisiv:

That's what technology has been doing since the stone age - empowering EVERYONE that has access. Empowering criminals "way too much" is arbitrary and vague as fuk, and does not come close to "explaining it to 5yr old". What do you mean "too much"? Too much compared to what - a chair? Cell phone? Internet?

Oh yeah, empowering everyone, because everyone can get thousands of GPUs and set up mining farms and has the connection to run criminal rings.

Noisiv:

Is that's why you're rocking 3080 OC? Hypocrisy galore 🙄 Look whale, your CO2 footprint is that of the entire village. Literally. And that's without bringing up your C02-spitting whale ancestors that brought us to this place.

Yeah man I'm the problem, the guy with a single 3080, let's compare me to a homeless person in a village in the middle of nowhere who doesn't use electricity. That makes sense and totally isn't a strawman argument. I'm not even going to bring up the fact that I'm in a country that now even charge carbon tax in an area that has the highest electricity costs in the country. Meanwhile some more people were killed today relating to illegal activities of drug lords who run mining farms, but yeah keep calling me a hypocrite for using a single high powered GPU when ONE SINGLE BITCOIN TRANSACTION uses more electricity than I'll use in an eternity. How biased can you be with these crazy mental gymnastics? Get a grip, crypto is a tool primarily for wealthy criminals, it's not some tool for freedom as those in a delusional fantasy think.

Neo Cyrus:

Obviously didn't mean it in an absolute 100% sense. Compared to traditional ransoms it's a galaxy more difficult for cops to deal with.

Just because criminals are not complete Mor(m)ons riding in open horse drawn carriages across the main street and abducting people in broad daylight, we should ban any technology that you feel is very useful to criminals. Are you fukin kiddin me? No - you are dead serious. Look.,.. you accepted the challenge of proving that crypto is to be blamed for Acer being blackmailed. Instead of proving it, you have offered nothing but your personal opinions and value judgments. Then there is hypocrisy of using 3080 OC and complaining about other peoples use of electricity. I showed you raw data proving that richest 10-percenters, you among them, are blowing 50% of CO2 budget. But you don't get these numbers it seems. You think that I am comparing you to ppl living in the jungle - I am not. I am comparing you with 90% of Earth's population. If your net worth is more than $100k, you belong to the world's richest decile. You are 10-percenter. Taking you as an average 10-percenter, you are blowing 10 times more C02 than the average non 10-percenter. Compared to the bottom half: You are blowing 25 times more CO2 than the average person from the bottom HALF of Earth population. Do you use clothes dryer? Cloth dryers in North America alone use a similar amount of energy to that of the entire Bitcoin. All that waste of energy for avoiding the mild inconvenience of hanging up your clothes and waiting a bit longer. If not using them why are you not rallying against clothes dryers?

Neo Cyrus:

How biased can you be with these crazy mental gymnastics? Get a grip, crypto is a tool primarily for wealthy criminals, it's not some tool for freedom as those in a delusional fantasy think.

I am not a criminal. I don't know a single bitcoin user who is a criminal.

Clothes Dryers? Really scraping that barrel now. *makes popcorn*

0blivious:

Clothes Dryers? Really scraping that barrel now.

bottom of the barrel, using similar amount of power like entire Bitcoin. In NA alone. For no other teason than to avoid mild inconvenience of hanging up clothes. If anything, thats low hanging fruit. Calling it scraping the bartel shows how much you really care. Hit me when you have something other to discuss than value judgments

Noisiv:

Just because criminals are not complete Mor(m)ons riding in open horse drawn carriages across the main street and abducting people in broad daylight, we should ban any technology that you feel is very useful to criminals. Are you fukin kiddin me? No - you are dead serious. Look.,.. you accepted the challenge of proving that crypto is to be blamed for Acer being blackmailed. Instead of proving it, you have offered nothing but your personal opinions and value judgments. Then there is hypocrisy of using 3080 OC and complaining about other peoples use of electricity. I showed you raw data proving that richest 10-percenters, you among them, are blowing 50% of CO2 budget. But you don't get these numbers it seems. You think that I am comparing you to ppl living in the jungle - I am not. I am comparing you with 90% of Earth's population. If your net worth is more than $100k, you belong to the world's richest decile. You are 10-percenter. Taking you as an average 10-percenter, you are blowing 10 times more C02 than the average non 10-percenter. Compared to the bottom half: You are blowing 25 times more CO2 than the average person from the bottom HALF of Earth population. Do you use clothes dryer? Cloth dryers in North America alone use a similar amount of energy to that of the entire Bitcoin. All that waste of energy for avoiding the mild inconvenience of hanging up your clothes and waiting a bit longer. If not using them why are you not rallying against clothes dryers? I am not a criminal. I don't know a single bitcoin user who is a criminal.

We all agree that, yes few dudes can appreciate cryptos for buying VPN access anonymously but I guess it ends there. There isn't really anything else that you can't do with your regular money. Cryptos are criticized for considerably increasing mass cybercrime and rightfully so. They offer little to end-user and much more to hacker groups. Hacking bank accounts in the past was nowhere near the scale of ransomware attacks. Ransomware-based hacking pre-cryto was not all that common and mostly targeted specific individuals. Cryptos allowed it to become what it is today. And it's not just stealing money or data, later frauds done with stolen files can have devastating consequences. Other issues are safety, since hacking hospitals and factories can easily result in injuries and loss of lives. You will never make networks impenetrable but you can make them safer by removing the economic gain behind hacking them. I don't see banning cryptos being real anytime soon, but if it is gonna happen it will be for the better.

Raserian:

We all agree that, yes few dudes can appreciate cryptos for buying VPN access anonymously but I guess it ends there.

1st value judgment

Raserian:

There isn't really anything else that you can't do with your regular money.

2nd value judgment

Raserian:

Cryptos are criticized for considerably increasing mass cybercrime and rightfully so .

3rd

Raserian:

They offer little to end-user and much more to hacker groups (4th and so on and so on).

4th and so on and so on

Raserian:

Hacking bank accounts in the past was nowhere near the scale of ransomware attacks. Ransomware-based hacking pre-cryto was not all that common and mostly targeted specific individuals. Cryptos allowed it to become what it is today. And it's not just stealing money or data, later frauds done with stolen files can have devastating consequences. Other issues are safety, since hacking hospitals and factories can easily result in injuries and loss of lives. You will never make networks impenetrable but you can make them safer by removing the economic gain behind hacking them. I don't see banning cryptos being real anytime soon, but if it is gonna happen it will be for the better.

Lets assume everything you said is 100% absolutely correct. Cryptos made ransoms possible. So what? There was no online hacking before the Internet. No criminal recordings and surveillance before camera. No anon blackmails before the email. No arson before fire. And so on and so on. C But you don't want any of those inventions banned. You want ppl exchanging tokens without a trusted 3rd party to be banned. Why? Because unlike Internet, fire, email etc, you don't see any particular value in crypto. As you said: "buying VPN access anonymously but I guess it ends there". So all this crypto-banning hoopla boils down to nothing but personal value judgment. But even if it was an objectively right judgment (see how much leevay I give you 🙂), you don't ban things because you find no use of it. It's simply wrong. If you're a mega-corporation, close your fukin doors instead of banning shoes that someone used to walk into your office. Jesus Christ.. banning ppl sending tokens to each other so you can have shty security CRY ME A RIVER ACER Criminals use whatever it's available at particular technological time-point. They're not fuking Mor(m)ons obliged to use clubs and buggies.

Noisiv:

1st value judgment 2nd value judgment 3rd 4th and so on and so on Lets assume everything you said is 100% absolutely correct. Cryptos made ransoms possible. So what? There was no online hacking before the Internet. No criminal recordings and surveillance before camera. No anon blackmails before the email. No arson before fire. And so on and so on. C But you don't want any of those inventions banned. You want ppl exchanging tokens without a trusted 3rd party to be banned. Why? Because unlike Internet, fire, email etc, you don't see any particular value in crypto. As you said: "buying VPN access anonymously but I guess it ends there". So all this crypto-banning hoopla boils down to nothing but personal value judgment. But even if it was an objectively right judgment (see how much leevay I give you 🙂), you don't ban things because you find no use of it. It's simply wrong. If you're a mega-corporation, close your fukin doors instead of banning shoes that someone used to walk into your office. Jesus Christ.. banning ppl sending tokens to each other so you can have shty security CRY ME A RIVER ACER Criminals use whatever it's available at particular technological time-point. They're not fuking Mor(m)ons obliged to use clubs and buggies.

You answered my post pretty correctly, people exchanging tokens using this technology, is why it's more harmful than useful. If something is harmful and not useful enough, it should not be held active. I don't hold any of my value judgement(not sure what this term means). I personally don't mind cryptos all that much, my opinion is irrelevant, problem is, if you keep technology like that around just for the sake of people exchanging tokens, while someone else can do a huge damage with it. You are not willing to look at more rational and objective perspective. There are not enough good uses of cryptos and too many problems with them. Probably your reasoning is you being uncomfortable with someone else advising to take away something from you, most likely a freedom of using something that is unregulated.

@Raserian Thank you for being dispassionate and as objective as you can. If I sound passionate about it, it's because of my emotional involvement. But not with the technology itself, it's because I am tired of half-arsed opinions and personal value statements that get presented as axioms and facts. That and I do have some skin in the game 🙂 So yes, I would be uncomfortable with someone taking away something from me.

Noisiv:

Look.,.. you accepted the challenge of proving that crypto is to be blamed for Acer being blackmailed. Instead of proving it, you have offered nothing but your personal opinions and value judgments.

You're going on a technicality asking for something that no one can 100% prove and plugging your ears and refusing to listen to what's been out there for years now. Crypto causing an insane spike in ransom crimes is not an opinion and if you've seen any of the news in the last half decade you'd know that, in fact I think you do know that.

Noisiv:

Then there is hypocrisy of using 3080 OC and complaining about other peoples use of electricity.

Why do you keep pretending to be ignorant? I'm trying really hard to not insult you here since I know you're pulling out all the mental gymnastics to try to justify your interest in crypto, but that's one of the most retarded things I've ever heard. Comparing a dude using single video card to the complaints of criminal rings using tens of thousands of cards, each, for a form of currency to mitigate tracking, is beyond stupid. At no point did I take a stab at individual casual users, mining a little on the side.

Noisiv:

I showed you raw data proving that richest 10-percenters, you among them, are blowing 50% of CO2 budget. But you don't get these numbers it seems. You think that I am comparing you to ppl living in the jungle - I am not. I am comparing you with 90% of Earth's population.

Even if that's correct, which I doubt, so what? It's not the least bit comparable: Again, you're calling me a hypocrite based on using a computer, for me calling out the insanity that is crypto. My power usage isn't comparable to the tiniest fraction of a fraction of any of these mining operations, or even regular Joes who merely transfer Bitcoin funds. You also conveniently ignore that I pay out of my asshole for the CO2 footprint I have, being that I live in one of the most taxed into oblivion, particularly for electricity, areas in Canada, who are now going to crank that up with a tax on top of that. Go ahead, look up how much power merely transferring Bitcoin costs.

Noisiv:

Do you use clothes dryer? Cloth dryers in North America alone use a similar amount of energy to that of the entire Bitcoin.

No they don't. And even if they did, at least it's not for pulling currency out of thin air to fuel a crime ring, or for some delusion of grandeur if it's a single person and not an operation.

Noisiv:

I am not a criminal. I don't know a single bitcoin user who is a criminal.

Yeah, no shit? Because you're just some guy who thinks you have a get rich quick scheme you can abuse, not one of the actual users of crypto, the criminals, which are the problem, obviously. I feel like what I just wrote was just as worthless as your statement. "Yeah, no shit?" was enough. You take great offense and you go at anyone who points out the massive criminal aspect of this garbage because deep down you know it's a crock of shit that will eventually be banned from use in NA, the EU, etc. The only thing that makes people like you a problem is that you buy into the scam and defend it tooth and nail, all you are is a pawn for the criminals. Stop trying to compare individuals in first world countries to the disaster that is these mining operations.

Noisiv:

bottom of the barrel, using similar amount of power like entire Bitcoin. In NA alone. For no other teason than to avoid mild inconvenience of hanging up clothes. If anything, thats low hanging fruit. Calling it scraping the bartel shows how much you really care. Hit me when you have something other to discuss than value judgments

Value judgement? I'll bite. What does bitcoin produce that is of tangible value? What is your use of electricity producing except for more or less a digital key which is the representation of the assigned 'value' of whatever crypto algo you're using, right? At least with a clothes dryer, the tangible output is of course, dry clothes with a consistent 'hash rate' .

Neo Cyrus:

No they don't. And even if they did, at least it's not for pulling currency out of thin air to fuel a crime ring, or for some delusion of grandeur if it's a single person and not an operation.

Yes they are, but I am not going to bother proving it, because you already brushed this aside. See... this is what I have been telling you from the start. Our verbal duel is nothing but the clash of value judgments: you see clothes dryer as something obviously useful. I see them as beyond stupid and a complete waste of energy over a slight inconvenience of having to hang your clothes. I don't know a single person using them outside of a ship/yacht. And its opposite with crypto: zero value for you, useful for me. Pointless argument started because you embarked on proving that "cryptos are to blame". And now that you failed, you're accusing me of mental gymnastics and of being stickler for technicality.

Noisiv:

And now that you failed, you're accusing me of mental gymnastics and of being stickler for technicality.

I failed at nothing, who are you trying to fool? Clearly you know no one is buying what you're saying, are you just trying to convince yourself? Sure seems that way. You demand 100% proof knowing it's technically not possible, cross your arms even though the evidence is obvious and is a growing mountain, and say "ha I win". Okay buddy, keep living in denial. You can turn a blind eye all you want, but there are only 2 likely outcomes: Either the crypto paradigm dramatically shifts into something less... criminal and unsustainable, with something closer to real world value, or it will be outlawed. If it ever grows enough to get outlawed, or change, you'll remember what I told you.

Neo Cyrus:

My power usage isn't comparable to the tiniest fraction of a fraction of any of these mining operations, or even regular Joes who merely transfer Bitcoin funds.

Once

Neo Cyrus:

Go ahead, look up how much power merely transferring Bitcoin costs.

Twice. Therefore not an accidental error. Transactions are the input of hashing algorithm. Finding the right block in order to validate and clear transactions is known as mining. In a sense clearing transactions is all that mining does. Security and creation of new coins is just a byproduct of mining. Is why "merely transferring bitcoin" makes no sense. Unless if by "merely transferring Bitcoin" you really mean that sending coins from your wallet results in a meaningful consumption of energy on your end. That would be mind-bogglingly stupid, OK?