How to: Firmware Update the AMD Radeon RX 5600 XT
MSI Radeon RX 5600 XT Gaming Z review
Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 5600 XT OC review
ASUS STRIX Radeon RX 5600 XT TOP review
Gigabyte Radeon RX 5600 XT Gaming OC review
Arctic Liquid Freezer II 280 liquid cooler review
Promo: Windows 10 Pro licenses for under 10 USD
Team Group MP33 NVMe 512 GB SSD Review
ADATA SE800 1TB Portable SSD review
Promo: Microsoft Office 2016 for $29.82
Intel to further delay its first 10nm processors to late 2019
Some interesting remarks have been made by Intel during a quarterly financial discussion, an Intel representative mentioned that data center products will be followed by desktop processors fabbed at 10nm at the earliest by 2019. So, long story short, all procs for another year will be based on 14nm.
This means that 10nm Cannon Lake desktop products will not be arriving until late 2019. Intel’s 10nm “Cannon Lake” in small volumes have spotted in early stages back in January 2017. However products based on the chip were slated to arrive by the end of 2017, that never happened. Intel instead pushed back its Cannon Lake rollout until 2018 due to manufacturing difficulties originating from the 10nm process. The delay on 10nm chips is not only limited to desktop and notebook computers, as it also applies to servers parts. It seems Intel is fighting yields in the 10nm process.
| Micro-architecture | Core Generation | Fab Process | Year |
|---|---|---|---|
| Sandy Bridge | 2nd | 32nm | 2011 |
| Ivy Bridge | 3rd | 22nm | 2012 |
| Haswell | 4th | 22nm | 2013 |
| Broadwell | 5th | 14nm | 2014 |
| Skylake | 6th | 14nm | 2015 |
| Kaby Lake | 7th | 14nm+ | 2016 |
| Coffee Lake | 8th | 14nm++ | 2017 |
| Whiskey lake | 8th | 14nm++ | 2018 |
| Cannon Lake | 8th | 10nm | 2019 |
| Ice Lake | 9th | 10nm+ | 2019 |
Realistically, the smaller the processor components, often the more problematic the manufacturing process becomes. We've seent hat in the past, and it seems to apply to complex 10nm designs in their yields, e.g. producing a higher number of defective chips per wafer. Interestingly enough, 14, 12 and 7nm seem to be going strong, AMD is on track with 7nm for ZEN2 and VEGA. This year the company will continue to focus on 14nm based processors of which the first generation was released in 2014. By the end of this year, Intel’s fifth and last generation 14nm technology based CPUs should be introduced, which are code-named Whiskey Lake.
Intel to Acquire eASIC to Bolster FPGA Talent and Solutions - 07/13/2018 07:49 AM
Intel is acquiring eASIC, a 120-person custom chip company based in Santa Clara. This team will join Intel’s Programmable Solutions Group. You can read more in this editorial by Dan McNamara...
Intel to halt Extreme Edition branding for its processors (updated and debunked) - 07/10/2018 07:53 PM
Intel might be dropping the Extreme Edition branding for their processors. The news was posted by François Piednoël, an ex Intel employee who has worked there for 20 years working on architecture ...
Confirmed: AMD Zen designer Jim Keller joins Intel to lead silicon engineering department - 04/27/2018 08:27 AM
Yesterday we posted that CPU architecture designer Jim Keller might make a move to Intel. Word actually is that he was fired at Tesla. Intel decided to not delay any announcements and issued a press ...
Intel to use Graphics processor for antivirus scanning - 04/17/2018 07:48 AM
Yes, you read that right,m basically Intel will be using the GPU, to offload the CPU for virus and malware scanning. The first program to utilize the new features will actually be Windows Defender fo...
Intel To Release affordable Optane 800P series SSDs in March - 01/11/2018 09:23 AM
Intel announced the release of a new Optane SSDs series, the 800P Optane SSDs are positioned between the Optane Memory caching modules and the Intel Optane 900P SSDs....
NewTRUMP Order
Senior Member
Posts: 452
Joined: 2017-02-04
Senior Member
Posts: 452
Joined: 2017-02-04
#5569004 Posted on: 07/28/2018 11:19 AM
Superman stumbles......
Superman stumbles......
RavenMaster
Senior Member
Posts: 1099
Joined: 2009-08-19
Senior Member
Posts: 1099
Joined: 2009-08-19
#5569011 Posted on: 07/28/2018 11:46 AM
If Intel was one person, that person would be a shivering wreck, crying in a corner rocking back and forth. AMD's Ryzen comeback has turned them into a huge mess. And dumping their CEO over something as trivial as an in-company relationship when they most needed an experienced helmsman, that was just stupid.
If Intel was one person, that person would be a shivering wreck, crying in a corner rocking back and forth. AMD's Ryzen comeback has turned them into a huge mess. And dumping their CEO over something as trivial as an in-company relationship when they most needed an experienced helmsman, that was just stupid.
user1
Senior Member
Posts: 1458
Joined: 2016-01-29
Senior Member
Posts: 1458
Joined: 2016-01-29
#5569022 Posted on: 07/28/2018 12:49 PM
thats worse than i expected, looks like icelake ( or what ever they end up shipping)will be competing mostly with 4th gen ryzen, thats not a good place to be. frankly thats late enough to really damage intel's market share.
thats worse than i expected, looks like icelake ( or what ever they end up shipping)will be competing mostly with 4th gen ryzen, thats not a good place to be. frankly thats late enough to really damage intel's market share.
H83
Senior Member
Posts: 2804
Joined: 2009-09-08
Senior Member
Posts: 2804
Joined: 2009-09-08
#5569025 Posted on: 07/28/2018 01:00 PM
If this mess continues, is better for Intel to skip the 10nm process and move to the next one... If possible of course.
If this mess continues, is better for Intel to skip the 10nm process and move to the next one... If possible of course.
Jagman
Senior Member
Posts: 2223
Joined: 2005-03-26
Senior Member
Posts: 2223
Joined: 2005-03-26
#5569026 Posted on: 07/28/2018 01:25 PM
^ I was thinking along similar lines. Is the 10nm still the same architecture BTW? If not that's what Intel needs to keep up in the core wars, especially in the HEDT and server market.
^ I was thinking along similar lines. Is the 10nm still the same architecture BTW? If not that's what Intel needs to keep up in the core wars, especially in the HEDT and server market.
Matt26LFC
Senior Member
Posts: 3061
Joined: 2008-01-06
Senior Member
Posts: 3061
Joined: 2008-01-06
#5569029 Posted on: 07/28/2018 01:38 PM
Can't see them skipping 10nm at all lol They've spent god only knows how many billions developing it, we'll be using their 10nm for years to come
If this mess continues, is better for Intel to skip the 10nm process and move to the next one... If possible of course.
^ I was thinking along similar lines. Is the 10nm still the same architecture BTW? If not that's what Intel needs to keep up in the core wars, especially in the HEDT and server market.
Can't see them skipping 10nm at all lol They've spent god only knows how many billions developing it, we'll be using their 10nm for years to come
Mda400
Senior Member
Posts: 773
Joined: 2008-07-10
Senior Member
Posts: 773
Joined: 2008-07-10
#5569031 Posted on: 07/28/2018 01:43 PM
Intel's 10nm is the competition's 7nm. They have always been more ambitious in trying to get closer to ITRS node standard. Broadwell was the first sign of lithography size issues delaying a new processor launch by more than a year (where they had to start going to optimization steps like Devil's Canyon).
This time, the long-term wait to see substantial gains isn't paying out well for them as the competition catches up and plays it safe getting there (putting out products more often with smaller process improvements. Intel isn't the only one that does this).
If this mess continues, is better for Intel to skip the 10nm process and move to the next one... If possible of course.
Intel's 10nm is the competition's 7nm. They have always been more ambitious in trying to get closer to ITRS node standard. Broadwell was the first sign of lithography size issues delaying a new processor launch by more than a year (where they had to start going to optimization steps like Devil's Canyon).
This time, the long-term wait to see substantial gains isn't paying out well for them as the competition catches up and plays it safe getting there (putting out products more often with smaller process improvements. Intel isn't the only one that does this).
schmidtbag
Senior Member
Posts: 4640
Joined: 2012-11-10
Senior Member
Posts: 4640
Joined: 2012-11-10
#5569056 Posted on: 07/28/2018 04:32 PM
Frankly, I blame Krzanich why Intel is in this mess in the first place. Intel pretty much stopped innovating since 2013 (they instead were either buying out companies, or only did minor upgrades to their products). The only especially interesting thing Intel did since then was Optane, which had a rough launch due to those anemic M.2 models. Anyway, Krzanich was CEO since 2013, so if he isn't to blame, it sure is a strange coincidence that Intel became "boring" since he was in charge.
As far as I'm concerned, he deliberately caused that in-company relationship so he could get out while Intel is still holding strong. It's too convenient - it wasn't sexual assault, so it doesn't make him look especially bad. Meanwhile, he gets to leave the company without putting investors in a scare. It sure doesn't look good if a CEO willingly steps down when the future is questionable, so, this allows him to run without throwing the company under the bus. In other words, he knows the future is bleak and wants to leave as a result, but, he also wants to ensure he's not the one blamed for tarnishing Intel's reputation.
And dumping their CEO over something as trivial as an in-company relationship when they most needed an experienced helmsman, that was just stupid.
Frankly, I blame Krzanich why Intel is in this mess in the first place. Intel pretty much stopped innovating since 2013 (they instead were either buying out companies, or only did minor upgrades to their products). The only especially interesting thing Intel did since then was Optane, which had a rough launch due to those anemic M.2 models. Anyway, Krzanich was CEO since 2013, so if he isn't to blame, it sure is a strange coincidence that Intel became "boring" since he was in charge.
As far as I'm concerned, he deliberately caused that in-company relationship so he could get out while Intel is still holding strong. It's too convenient - it wasn't sexual assault, so it doesn't make him look especially bad. Meanwhile, he gets to leave the company without putting investors in a scare. It sure doesn't look good if a CEO willingly steps down when the future is questionable, so, this allows him to run without throwing the company under the bus. In other words, he knows the future is bleak and wants to leave as a result, but, he also wants to ensure he's not the one blamed for tarnishing Intel's reputation.
RavenMaster
Senior Member
Posts: 1099
Joined: 2009-08-19
Senior Member
Posts: 1099
Joined: 2009-08-19
#5569057 Posted on: 07/28/2018 04:38 PM
Frankly, I blame Krzanich why Intel is in this mess in the first place. Intel pretty much stopped innovating since 2013 (they instead were either buying out companies, or only did minor upgrades to their products). The only especially interesting thing Intel did since then was Optane, which had a rough launch due to those anemic M.2 models. Anyway, Krzanich was CEO since 2013, so if he isn't to blame, it sure is a strange coincidence that Intel became "boring" since he was in charge.
As far as I'm concerned, he deliberately caused that in-company relationship so he could get out while Intel is still holding strong. It's too convenient - it wasn't sexual assault, so it doesn't make him look especially bad. Meanwhile, he gets to leave the company without putting investors in a scare. It sure doesn't look good if a CEO willingly steps down when the future is questionable, so, this allows him to run without throwing the company under the bus. In other words, he knows the future is bleak and wants to leave as a result, but, he also wants to ensure he's not the one blamed for tarnishing Intel's reputation.
Could be true.
Frankly, I blame Krzanich why Intel is in this mess in the first place. Intel pretty much stopped innovating since 2013 (they instead were either buying out companies, or only did minor upgrades to their products). The only especially interesting thing Intel did since then was Optane, which had a rough launch due to those anemic M.2 models. Anyway, Krzanich was CEO since 2013, so if he isn't to blame, it sure is a strange coincidence that Intel became "boring" since he was in charge.
As far as I'm concerned, he deliberately caused that in-company relationship so he could get out while Intel is still holding strong. It's too convenient - it wasn't sexual assault, so it doesn't make him look especially bad. Meanwhile, he gets to leave the company without putting investors in a scare. It sure doesn't look good if a CEO willingly steps down when the future is questionable, so, this allows him to run without throwing the company under the bus. In other words, he knows the future is bleak and wants to leave as a result, but, he also wants to ensure he's not the one blamed for tarnishing Intel's reputation.
Could be true.
JamesSneed
Senior Member
Posts: 642
Joined: 2017-02-14
Senior Member
Posts: 642
Joined: 2017-02-14
#5569320 Posted on: 07/29/2018 07:07 PM
Intel just reported another record quarter in revenue. Sometimes making money and innovating are disconnected when you don't have much competition. Meaning you have to blame Krzanich for the 3rd year in a row record revenues along with the lack of innovation which is a bit whaky. I do think it's going to catch up to Intel in 2019 while AMD rolls out EPYC and Ryzen on 7nm.
Intel just reported another record quarter in revenue. Sometimes making money and innovating are disconnected when you don't have much competition. Meaning you have to blame Krzanich for the 3rd year in a row record revenues along with the lack of innovation which is a bit whaky. I do think it's going to catch up to Intel in 2019 while AMD rolls out EPYC and Ryzen on 7nm.
coth
Senior Member
Posts: 412
Joined: 2005-02-23
Senior Member
Posts: 412
Joined: 2005-02-23
#5569363 Posted on: 07/30/2018 04:30 AM
Nothing new. No further delays. As planned in past half year at least, 10+ ICL-S will be released as usual in late august without any rush. Back on track since Zen 2 delayed for a year as well.
10 nm CNL-U is already there, on the market. GloFo 7LP delays full year behind Intel 10. Originally 7LP Zen 2 was supposed to out this year as well.
Nothing new. No further delays. As planned in past half year at least, 10+ ICL-S will be released as usual in late august without any rush. Back on track since Zen 2 delayed for a year as well.
10 nm CNL-U is already there, on the market. GloFo 7LP delays full year behind Intel 10. Originally 7LP Zen 2 was supposed to out this year as well.
D3M1G0D
Senior Member
Posts: 2048
Joined: 2017-03-10
Senior Member
Posts: 2048
Joined: 2017-03-10
#5569437 Posted on: 07/30/2018 12:51 PM
Frankly, I blame Krzanich why Intel is in this mess in the first place. Intel pretty much stopped innovating since 2013 (they instead were either buying out companies, or only did minor upgrades to their products). The only especially interesting thing Intel did since then was Optane, which had a rough launch due to those anemic M.2 models. Anyway, Krzanich was CEO since 2013, so if he isn't to blame, it sure is a strange coincidence that Intel became "boring" since he was in charge.
As far as I'm concerned, he deliberately caused that in-company relationship so he could get out while Intel is still holding strong. It's too convenient - it wasn't sexual assault, so it doesn't make him look especially bad. Meanwhile, he gets to leave the company without putting investors in a scare. It sure doesn't look good if a CEO willingly steps down when the future is questionable, so, this allows him to run without throwing the company under the bus. In other words, he knows the future is bleak and wants to leave as a result, but, he also wants to ensure he's not the one blamed for tarnishing Intel's reputation.
In Krzanich's defense, the PC market was in decline and the company was trying to diversify into other more lucrative areas (as well as trying to get a piece of the growing mobile pie). Tablets were all the rage, with many people thinking that they were going to make PCs obsolete. Of course Intel's lack of innovation may have added to that decline, but it was a difficult time for the PC industry as a whole. Microsoft managed to reinvent themselves, stepping away from selling OSs and boxed software to becoming largely a service provider. I think Krzanich tried to reinvent Intel but wasn't as successful.
I do agree that his resignation was a bit fishy. It's feasible that he, or the board, no longer saw that he was right for the job and decided to step down under the pretense of a in-company relationship to avoid upsetting their investors. His failure to anticipate AMD's comeback may have been part of it.
Frankly, I blame Krzanich why Intel is in this mess in the first place. Intel pretty much stopped innovating since 2013 (they instead were either buying out companies, or only did minor upgrades to their products). The only especially interesting thing Intel did since then was Optane, which had a rough launch due to those anemic M.2 models. Anyway, Krzanich was CEO since 2013, so if he isn't to blame, it sure is a strange coincidence that Intel became "boring" since he was in charge.
As far as I'm concerned, he deliberately caused that in-company relationship so he could get out while Intel is still holding strong. It's too convenient - it wasn't sexual assault, so it doesn't make him look especially bad. Meanwhile, he gets to leave the company without putting investors in a scare. It sure doesn't look good if a CEO willingly steps down when the future is questionable, so, this allows him to run without throwing the company under the bus. In other words, he knows the future is bleak and wants to leave as a result, but, he also wants to ensure he's not the one blamed for tarnishing Intel's reputation.
In Krzanich's defense, the PC market was in decline and the company was trying to diversify into other more lucrative areas (as well as trying to get a piece of the growing mobile pie). Tablets were all the rage, with many people thinking that they were going to make PCs obsolete. Of course Intel's lack of innovation may have added to that decline, but it was a difficult time for the PC industry as a whole. Microsoft managed to reinvent themselves, stepping away from selling OSs and boxed software to becoming largely a service provider. I think Krzanich tried to reinvent Intel but wasn't as successful.
I do agree that his resignation was a bit fishy. It's feasible that he, or the board, no longer saw that he was right for the job and decided to step down under the pretense of a in-company relationship to avoid upsetting their investors. His failure to anticipate AMD's comeback may have been part of it.
Fox2232
Senior Member
Posts: 9841
Joined: 2012-07-20
Senior Member
Posts: 9841
Joined: 2012-07-20
#5569442 Posted on: 07/30/2018 01:04 PM
In Krzanich's defense, the PC market was in decline and the company was trying to diversify into other more lucrative areas (as well as trying to get a piece of the growing mobile pie). Tablets were all the rage, with many people thinking that they were going to make PCs obsolete. Of course Intel's lack of innovation may have added to that decline, but it was a difficult time for the PC industry as a whole. Microsoft managed to reinvent themselves, stepping away from selling OSs and boxed software to becoming largely a service provider. I think Krzanich tried to reinvent Intel but wasn't as successful.
I do agree that his resignation was a bit fishy. It's feasible that he, or the board, no longer saw that he was right for the job and decided to step down under the pretense of a in-company relationship to avoid upsetting their investors. His failure to anticipate AMD's comeback may have been part of it.
Yep, it was just bit shortsighted. Too many bets on too many very uncertain things...
1) tablet with windows still needs processing power, in small thermal envelope it means very power efficient chip => need for 7nm => failure to understand that improving manufacturing is still needed
2) bet on low processing power and cloud processing/applications => not comfortable, mobile devices are not always online, mobile connectivity is not cheap enough, mindset of cunsumers
In cases like that you sit in the room with your experts and ask them to think about possible tech routes and their requirements+consequences. Each models cause+effect tree map. And then all that information is processed together to do brainstorming over individual branches.
Intel had their tablet rage, it is still here. They still produce x5-z85x0/87x0. Only issue was their total lack of support for those chips. And fake TDP in form of SDP. Making those devices look power efficient, but in reality weak and hungry.
They basically orchestrated all their problems
In Krzanich's defense, the PC market was in decline and the company was trying to diversify into other more lucrative areas (as well as trying to get a piece of the growing mobile pie). Tablets were all the rage, with many people thinking that they were going to make PCs obsolete. Of course Intel's lack of innovation may have added to that decline, but it was a difficult time for the PC industry as a whole. Microsoft managed to reinvent themselves, stepping away from selling OSs and boxed software to becoming largely a service provider. I think Krzanich tried to reinvent Intel but wasn't as successful.
I do agree that his resignation was a bit fishy. It's feasible that he, or the board, no longer saw that he was right for the job and decided to step down under the pretense of a in-company relationship to avoid upsetting their investors. His failure to anticipate AMD's comeback may have been part of it.
Yep, it was just bit shortsighted. Too many bets on too many very uncertain things...
1) tablet with windows still needs processing power, in small thermal envelope it means very power efficient chip => need for 7nm => failure to understand that improving manufacturing is still needed
2) bet on low processing power and cloud processing/applications => not comfortable, mobile devices are not always online, mobile connectivity is not cheap enough, mindset of cunsumers
In cases like that you sit in the room with your experts and ask them to think about possible tech routes and their requirements+consequences. Each models cause+effect tree map. And then all that information is processed together to do brainstorming over individual branches.
Intel had their tablet rage, it is still here. They still produce x5-z85x0/87x0. Only issue was their total lack of support for those chips. And fake TDP in form of SDP. Making those devices look power efficient, but in reality weak and hungry.
They basically orchestrated all their problems
vbetts
Moderator
Posts: 14756
Joined: 2006-07-04
Moderator
Posts: 14756
Joined: 2006-07-04
#5569443 Posted on: 07/30/2018 01:19 PM
Really I don't see the issue with this right now. Sure they're on a process they've used since 2014, but honestly considering the jump from 14 to 10nm is a year away and we have cores like Coffee Lake that are reasonably performing and run a little cooler that are still on 14nm, right now that's not all that bad.
Now yes, it has been delayed a few times already which does suck I will say. At least they've been able to stay competitive and current being on 14nm. Granted AMD has only been on 14nm since Zen, but that's the same process they run on.
Really I don't see the issue with this right now. Sure they're on a process they've used since 2014, but honestly considering the jump from 14 to 10nm is a year away and we have cores like Coffee Lake that are reasonably performing and run a little cooler that are still on 14nm, right now that's not all that bad.
Now yes, it has been delayed a few times already which does suck I will say. At least they've been able to stay competitive and current being on 14nm. Granted AMD has only been on 14nm since Zen, but that's the same process they run on.
Click here to post a comment for this news story on the message forum.
Senior Member
Posts: 16505
Joined: 2012-05-18
Lol wishkeylake
So still some wait for Icelake, np but this stalling is ludicrous