Windows 8.1 vs 10 graphics performance review

Redemption80

2015-07-31 03:20

Why would you see a difference with an "average" system? Nice article, glad to see no performance degradation in DX11 games which at the moment is the most important thing.

#5133018

theoneofgod

2015-07-31 04:20

These results are a bit inaccurate. I think you'll see a bigger difference with an average system (i.e. an i5/8320 coupled with a mid range GPU), IMO.

Why?

#5133024

Loophole35

2015-07-31 04:34

Why?

Because it's not the results that he wanted to see.

#5133026

theoneofgod

2015-07-31 04:36

Because it's not the results that he wanted to see.

I didn't expect DX11 improvements with WDDM 2.0, the fact that AMD made CPU overhead optimizations first on the Windows 10 driver was interesting but it wasn't limited to WDDM 2.0 but WDDM 1.3 and lower. It's good to see they didn't make things worse 🙂

#5133096

iTile

2015-07-31 06:58

http://i.imgur.com/GlsUzVp.jpg says a lot..

#5133141

theoneofgod

2015-07-31 08:34

http://i.imgur.com/GlsUzVp.jpg says a lot..

What driver was installed on 8.1? Looks to me like you weren't running >= 15.7 which had the CPU overhead optimizations that they now have.

#5133162

xIcarus

2015-07-31 09:20

Guys please include spoiler tags or links when posting or quoting images. The page looks weird. And I feel the need to scroll sideways continuously. MUST NOT SCROLL.

Haha wow, where are all those "Wait for Windows 10 and you'll see the AMD difference" cats at now? :wanker: But hey, keep believing in the magical driver/OS fairy.

That's exactly what I was thinking about. I'm not surprised there's no magic stick for the Fury. Now we wait for DX12.

#5133202

theoneofgod

2015-07-31 10:18

I was going to say the same thing! I have higher draw calls per second under DirectX 11 on my rig (R9-280x with an i5-3570K) in Windows 10. That is running the latest 15.7.1 driver. That is both for single and multi-threaded (around 1100000 for both). Here's mine (screenshot): Keep in mind I have an older CPU, and a lower end video card. My results for DirectX 11 and 12 should be less than yours...

CPU overclocked?

#5133215

theoneofgod

2015-07-31 10:23

Yes, to 4.3 GHz (compared to his 4.0 GHz). Still, that won't equal 20 percent higher DX 11 draw calls, especially considering mine is an i5-3570K and his is an i7-4790K. The i7-4790K at the same clock speed should still be a little faster in the draw call test, seeing as it does have higher IPC. That is, assuming the CPU makes that much difference (I presume it does).

I wonder what resolution they used. The CPU IPC is very important in the test.

#5133221

theoneofgod

2015-07-31 10:30

It should be the same resolution, 1280x720. It's an overhead test, not a graphics resolution test! Even with IPC being important, that further highlights that the i7-4790K should at 4.0 GHz should be at minimum, no less than the i5-3570K at 4.3 GHz.

The i7-4790K can boost to 4.4GHz.

#5133240

heffeque

2015-07-31 10:56

That's exactly what I was thinking about. I'm not surprised there's no magic stick for the Fury. Now we wait for DX12.

Not surprised either. Who actually thought that Dx11 performance would change from Win8.1 to Win10? The real difference comes with Dx12 vs Dx11, where Dx12 hardware will shine against older Dx11 hardware, and where CPU performance will be a bit less important than with Dx11. That's what AMD is talking about their "magic" stick, their underpowered CPUs will be able to shine better in games thanks to Dx12 (even more the APUs).

#5133241

theoneofgod

2015-07-31 10:57

Not surprised either. Who actually thought that Dx11 performance would change from Win8.1 to Win10? The real difference comes with Dx12 vs Dx11, where Dx12 hardware will shine against older Dx11 hardware, and where CPU performance will be a bit less important than with Dx11 (that's what AMD is talking about their "magic" stick, their underpowered CPUs and APUs will be able to shine better in games thanks to Dx12).

DX11 hardware supports DX12 give or take some Intel iGPU's (not up to date wth AMD APU's). The improvements will come from the low level API. I don't know anyone that expected DX11 improvements with Windows 10.

#5133244

heffeque

2015-07-31 11:01

DX11 hardware supports DX12 give or take some Intel iGPU's (not up to date wth AMD APU's). The improvements will come from the low level API.

I'm pretty sure that AMD's APUs will do a lot better in Dx12 than Intel's iGPUs since AMD's APUs have more Dx12 HW accelerated instructions than Intel's iGPUs. Intel will have to do more stuff on CPU than AMD. On external GPUs the story changes obviously.

I don't know anyone that expected DX11 improvements with Windows 10.

Well... check this post: http://forums.guru3d.com/showpost.php?p=5132768&postcount=12

#5133247

theoneofgod

2015-07-31 11:04

I'm pretty sure that AMD's APUs will do a lot better in Dx12 than Intel's iGPUs since AMD's APUs have more Dx12 HW accelerated instructions than Intel's iGPUs. Intel will have to do more stuff on CPU than AMD. On external GPUs the story changes obviously. Well... check this post: http://forums.guru3d.com/showpost.php?p=5132768&postcount=12

Of course GCN based APU's will benefit a lot from DX12 because of the feature level and extra optional function support.

Well... check this post: http://forums.guru3d.com/showpost.php?p=5132768&postcount=12

That doesn't say much. They're just doing what they enjoy doing.

#5133309

theoneofgod

2015-07-31 12:48

So, the i7-4790K boosts to 4.4 GHz? So, how come my i5-3570K+R9-280X under Windows 10 at 4.3 GHZ, has 20 percent higher draw call performance compared to the i7-4790K boosting to 4.4 GHz (not forgetting it has higher IPC anyway)? The only reasonable answer would be that the test wasn't done using 15.7.1.

That's what I said originally 🙂

#5133313

xIcarus

2015-07-31 12:52

Not surprised either. Who actually thought that Dx11 performance would change from Win8.1 to Win10? The real difference comes with Dx12 vs Dx11, where Dx12 hardware will shine against older Dx11 hardware, and where CPU performance will be a bit less important than with Dx11. That's what AMD is talking about their "magic" stick, their underpowered CPUs will be able to shine better in games thanks to Dx12 (even more the APUs).

Yep, exactly my thoughts. AMD's processors are very weak in single-threaded, DX12 should change the landscape since their octa-cores are not that bad in multithreaded.

#5133314

theoneofgod

2015-07-31 12:58

Yep, exactly my thoughts. AMD's processors are very weak in single-threaded, DX12 should change the landscape since their octa-cores are not that bad in multithreaded.

The reason AMD CPU's will clearly benefit is because IPC matters in CPU overhead, the quicker the IPC the more work the GPU can do, if we talk about draw calls. Since Intel have a higher IPC, CPU overhead is still a problem but the GPU can perform better, that's why lately you see AMD CPU's being far behind in games, FPS wise. When DX12 is here, CPU bound will be shifted over to GPU bound. That means more innovation will be needed for GPU's to equal it out and at the same time developers will be able to put CPU's to more use because it will no longer cause bottlenecks in the game. GTA 5 is a good example when you up extended viewing scaling etc, FPS is hit a lot because the CPU has to do much more work and that bottlenecks the driver thread. Project CARS is another example. AMD GPU's were being bottlenecked. That's why it performed much better on Windows 10 because of the earlier CPU overhead optimizations. Intel will benefit too as games don't just require a GPU but a CPU too. As I said above, developers will be able to use the CPU more for more complex things like physics and AI. CPU performance will matter there.

#5133358

iTile

2015-07-31 13:42

What driver was installed on 8.1? Looks to me like you weren't running >= 15.7 which had the CPU overhead optimizations that they now have.

On windows 8.1 i was using 15.7, on windows 10 15.7.1. Also regarding the "lower than 3570K" performance. I locked my CPU to 3.1Ghz. So the 4790K is running at 3.1Ghz, and not 4Ghz. As the 4Ghz, reported is the stock clock without boost. at 3.1Ghz its only pulling max 48W. 🙂 My apologies for not clarifying the CPU clocks. I see no reason to be running my CPU and full when i only need 80%.. maybe in a year or so i'll need the rest of the speed.

#5133359

theoneofgod

2015-07-31 13:44

On windows 8.1 i was using 15.7, on windows 10 15.7.1. Also regarding the "lower than 3570K" performance. I locked my CPU to 3.1Ghz. So the 4790K is running at 3.1Ghz, and not 4Ghz. As the 4Ghz, reported is the stock clock without boost. at 3.1Ghz its only pulling max 48W. 🙂 My apologies for not clarifying the CPU clocks. I see no reason to be running my CPU and full when i only need 80%.. maybe in a year or so i'll need the rest of the speed.

Are you positive the clocks were locked to 3.1GHz with Windows 10? It still doesn't make sense why there's such a big difference.

#5133406

iTile

2015-07-31 15:11

He might have muffed around with other settings too much 🙂. I would suggest that maybe leaving all the power saving features on in the bios, and having it at a small overclock (higher max multiplier or whatever is in his Z97 bios) would be far more advantageous than limiting the process to 3 GHz, which could very well in itself disable some of those power saving features. Disabling some of those things may be necessary for higher overclocks, I think it would be best to fine tune the computer for performance. At the moment, it appears that whatever settings he has chosen is acting as a bottleneck. If you really wanted to be skimpy, you could set the minimum CPU power schedule in power management under Windows 10 from 5% to 1% 😉.

already do http://i.imgur.com/ToGNvRd.jpg and here it is at stock clocks.. http://i.imgur.com/n4P96SI.jpg as i said don't need right now. I don't see it as a waste to underclock or undervolt. I don't upgrade often, so this is my way of remembering there is still a lot more power if i actually need it. But for my current usage on my PC I don't need it to be running full speed, i like my system cool and quiet.