No surprise here?

The judge has ruled that Apple may not revoke the license. "Epic Games and Apple are free to sue each other, but their conflict should not cause havoc among bystanders," said the judge.

Uhm, what? Clearly and very easily spottable, this will be the direct consequence of this whole thing. Buy a new iPhone, right now you can't instal Fortnite on it. Damage to customer (bystander) done already. I'm kind of fed up with companies trying to instrumentalise customers with psychological tricks to try and fight money battles with public opinion. And Epic very clearly does this again after their tackle of Steam. And guess what? In the end the customer will see now difference wheather he paid 60$ for a game on steam or EGS. The reset is just company tactics to trick customers as pawns in their games for big money which will never benefit any of us here.

What he said!.!

Precisely as @fantaskarsef said. It's hard to be sympathetic to either party. Also, I have not seen games cheaper on Epic's own store for PC Games. The consumer will hardly get a win here.

Hopefully game developpers on Unreal Engine can start breathing again.

Can't they both lose, somehow? :P

I enjoy this as I don't care for either company I used to like epic but then they chose to kill unreal tournament in favour of fortnite which i still cant believe this new generation prefers the game to me is just a cheesy steaming pile but hey that's just my opinion and majority rules.

fantaskarsef:

Uhm, what? Clearly and very easily spottable, this will be the direct consequence of this whole thing. Buy a new iPhone, right now you can't instal Fortnite on it. Damage to customer (bystander) done already.

I see your point and I agree, but, it doesn't have to be this way. Apple is within their right to remove Fortnite, because Epic is explicitly and deliberately going against Apple's policies. That doesn't mean Apple's policies are fair or righteous, but kinda the thing about their entire ecosystem is "do it our way or go away". It is well within Apple's legal right to control what ends up in their app store and always has been. So - I'd argue this ruling is fair. Apple went too far by banning UE but Epic isn't exactly helping their own customers either by knowingly pissing off Apple. I have a hard time siding with Epic because they should have first approached Apple with their decision, instead of just simply being defiant and gambling with their ability to support their customers.

I really want Epic to succeed in its endeavour. The smartphone application market is too big to be ruled by Apple and Google, no wonder they're getting bigger than countries and able to bend governments including the U.S government. The elected government should not have to adapt their legislation so Apple kindly decide to relocate abroad funds while contributing less to public services. You can't let self centered capitalistic interests drive the funding of governments. Isn't it the whole morale of this pandemic? Health care is not a privilege, it's a public necessity and companies like Apple have to pay their part.

schmidtbag:

I see your point and I agree, but, it doesn't have to be this way. Apple is within their right to remove Fortnite, because Epic is explicitly and deliberately going against Apple's policies. That doesn't mean Apple's policies are fair or righteous, but kinda the thing about their entire ecosystem is "do it our way or go away". It is well within Apple's legal right to control what ends up in their app store and always has been. So - I'd argue this ruling is fair. Apple went too far by banning UE but Epic isn't exactly helping their own customers either by knowingly pissing off Apple. I have a hard time siding with Epic because they should have first approached Apple with their decision, instead of just simply being defiant and gambling with their ability to support their customers.

They did approach Apple - that's part of the whole lawsuit. Epic wanted special terms, Apple declined - then Epic purposely pissed off Apple with the intention of filing the lawsuit. As for the anti-trust that Epic filed - it's not so much about controlling what ends up on Apple's store but about allowing a secondary store to exist entirely. Epic's position is that Apple has over a billion iOS devices, is pervasive throughout the US, and abuses that position to lock developers into contracts that prevent them from developing competing app markets on their devices.

. Apple imposes unreasonable restraints and unlawfully maintains a total monopoly in the iOS App Distribution Market. To live up to its promise to users that “there’s an app for that”, Apple, after a short initial attempt to go it alone, opened up iOS and invited third-party app developers to develop a wide array of apps for the iOS ecosystem. Those apps contribute immense value to that ecosystem and are one of the primary marketing features for iPhones and iPads. But Apple completely bans innovation in a central part of this ecosystem, namely, any app that could compete with Apple for the distribution of apps in iOS.

schmidtbag:

I see your point and I agree, but, it doesn't have to be this way. Apple is within their right to remove Fortnite, because Epic is explicitly and deliberately going against Apple's policies. That doesn't mean Apple's policies are fair or righteous, but kinda the thing about their entire ecosystem is "do it our way or go away". It is well within Apple's legal right to control what ends up in their app store and always has been. So - I'd argue this ruling is fair. Apple went too far by banning UE but Epic isn't exactly helping their own customers either by knowingly pissing off Apple. I have a hard time siding with Epic because they should have first approached Apple with their decision, instead of just simply being defiant and gambling with their ability to support their customers.

Oh I agree with you, this ruling is fair. Might have gotten me wrong, I see it as lawful as they can go in terms of what contracts were breached, and I would see this logical as far as the judge could and should have gone. No disagreeing on my end here.

XenthorX:

I really want Epic to succeed in its endeavour. The smartphone application market is too big to be ruled by Apple and Google, no wonder they're getting bigger than countries and able to bend governments including the U.S government. The elected government should not have to adapt their legislation so Apple kindly decide to relocate abroad funds while contributing less to public services. You can't let self centered capitalistic interests drive the funding of governments. Isn't it the whole morale of this pandemic? Health care is not a privilege, it's a public necessity and companies like Apple have to pay their part.

While I ideologically agree with you, wanting Epic to succeed only shows how you got yourself carried away. You don't want Apple to lose, but you want Epic to win, that alone says a lot about people's motives 😀 And I hate to break it to you fellow guru, but you can wish that Apple loses this thing all you want, even if they do, nothing will change at all in the bigger sense. They won't at all pay more taxes, they won't change their way of influencing governments and legislation. If anything, other players will gain the influence (= money )Apple lost and start influencing legislation just as well. And here cums the best part: Guess what would Epic do if they would be in Apple's position? 😀:D:D:D:D:D

I want Epic to win because it would open a possibility of competition and crack open Apple and Google monopoly on their respective user base application marketplaces. I don't want Apple and Google to share 50/50 a 20%+ growing market, there needs to be competition.

Loobyluggs:

APPLE CAN DO WHAT THEY WANT AND THE GOVERNMENT(S) WILL NOT GET IN THEIR WAY.

Called it!

fantaskarsef:

No surprise here? Uhm, what? Clearly and very easily spottable, this will be the direct consequence of this whole thing. Buy a new iPhone, right now you can't instal Fortnite on it. Damage to customer (bystander) done already. I'm kind of fed up with companies trying to instrumentalise customers with psychological tricks to try and fight money battles with public opinion. And Epic very clearly does this again after their tackle of Steam. And guess what? In the end the customer will see now difference wheather he paid 60$ for a game on steam or EGS. The reset is just company tactics to trick customers as pawns in their games for big money which will never benefit any of us here.

The 'bystanders' referred to; are the developers using Unreal Engine to produce apps for the iOS store.

XenthorX:

I want Epic to win because it would open a possibility of competition and crack open Apple and Google monopoly on their respective user base application marketplaces. I don't want Apple and Google to share 50/50 a 20%+ growing market, there needs to be competition.

I'd just put it that way: Apple and google need to loose 😀

RealNC:

Can't they both lose, somehow? 😛

I'd love to see them both manage to lose.... Apple has a monopoly. That needs to end since it's actually illegal. Epic needs to lose because, well, they need to be held to the same standard as every other developer. IF there's a way for both to lose, it needs to happen. Apple should be forced to allow competition on iOS, as the law mandates. Epic needs to be less douchebag-like...or start selling feminine hygiene products =X

Denial:

They did approach Apple - that's part of the whole lawsuit. Epic wanted special terms, Apple declined - then Epic purposely pissed off Apple with the intention of filing the lawsuit.

That doesn't really change my point though. Epic effectively didn't approach Apple about it because they were denied their special terms and went ahead and took what they wanted anyway. To my understanding, Epic went directly against Apple's ToS, so they should have known they were going to lose. Apple isn't obligated to do what they say and they're not doing anything illegal in denying Epic's terms either. Even the whole thing about banning UE was well within their right, it was just a dick move to all of those developers and their customers. So don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Apple crumble, but this approach Epic is taking is just so incredibly stupid and was inevitably going to fail. Think of the situation like this: Some guy wants to enter a fancy nightclub with a steep entrance fee. He demands the bouncer let him in for free, which obviously isn't going to work, because what makes him so special? He doesn't want to pay to get in, but insists on getting inside anyway. So, he sneaks in through the back exit, gets a small taste of what it's like, and then the bouncers kick him out. Then he proceeds to sue them, because they won't give him a free pass. And why should they? I get it - Apple has some pretty awful business practices, but as long as people keep paying them, they're going to keep doing it. If they let a company like Epic slip by, that's a crack in the foundation of their empire, so obviously they're going to retaliate. As long as Apple isn't doing anything illegal, only the consumers can stop them. Remember - despite their hefty cut of app store sales, developers are willing to put up with it because the market is large enough that they still make a profit. If Epic wanted a chance at winning, they'd sue Apple for monopolizing.

I have no problem with this outcome - as an Android user. When you sign up to Apple's ecosystem, you know exactly what you've signed up for. It's a safe environment. If you can't play the games you want to on iOS, buy an Android phone, PC or console - the choice is yours.

what does epic dev license have to do with apple? how can apple revoke epics dev license to there own engine? This could been avoid if epic didnt pull what they did know they would be violating terms, then trying to sue cause THEY violated terms that got them pull in first place. But i dont get how apple threating to pull there dev license, what does APPLE have to do with there license or is ment to revoke them from developing on apple platform only? which would make sense, but i dont see how they can revoke there dev license in the sense they wouldnt not be able to maintained there own engine which what they article is eluding too.

tsunami231:

what does epic dev license have to do with apple? how can apple revoke epics dev license to there own engine? This could been avoid if epic didnt pull what they did know they would be violating terms, then trying to sue cause THEY violated terms that got them pull in first place. But i dont get how apple threating to pull there dev license, what does APPLE have to do with there license or is ment to revoke them from developing on apple platform only? which would make sense, but i dont see how they can revoke there dev license in the sense they wouldnt not be able to maintained there own engine which what they article is eluding too.

Only in the Apple ecosystem.

tsunami231:

what does epic dev license have to do with apple? how can apple revoke epics dev license to there own engine? This could been avoid if epic didnt pull what they did know they would be violating terms, then trying to sue cause THEY violated terms that got them pull in first place. But i dont get how apple threating to pull there dev license, what does APPLE have to do with there license or is ment to revoke them from developing on apple platform only? which would make sense, but i dont see how they can revoke there dev license in the sense they wouldnt not be able to maintained there own engine which what they article is eluding too.

Apparently Apple requires developers to be "licensed" to develop apps for iOS..... More proof that Apple is a monopoly.... They have complete and total control over development and distribution of apps for iOS devices...

then why was this in the article Because of the violation, Apple also threatened to revoke Epic's developer license. That would mean that Epic would no longer be able to maintain its Unreal Engine platform, which also runs other games. Microsoft, which uses the Unreal Engine, stated that license revocation would be "disastrous". This only effect epic developing on iOS has nothing to do with multitude of games use the unreal engine. and would not effect there ability to maintain the unreal engine The judges ruling to not revoke license should not have any bearing on this cause it ONLY effect them maintaining there unreal engine. with in iOS and no where else