Fediuld:

From what have read is that Nvidia didn't ask anyone to support their games through its streaming service while monetizing from those games in through their subscription fees. So is Nvidia at fault here.

They aren't monetizing those games they are monetizing the service of being able to play your OWN games that you paid for using their computing power / network. It's not like they are running some streaming service where Nvidia bought one copy of the game then let you log on and play it (and even that likely is legal, people forget you have rights as consumers despite the EULA BS common these days) Nvidia has the ONLY streaming service I'd consider paying for. Funny thing I was about to subscribe to WoW Classic before Activision Blizzard did their BS, because the idea of being able to play WoW classic no matter how shitty the PC/laptop I was on was appealing. Nvidia's service would help sell games to people who otherwise do not have access to a gaming PC, the publishers that have a problem with it are blind or so greedy they would rather try their luck selling their current customers the game twice.

So..... Let me ask this question. IF AMD had setup a game streaming platform instead of NVidia.... How many of you would honestly react the same way?

sykozis:

So..... Let me ask this question. IF AMD had setup a game streaming platform instead of NVidia.... How many of you would honestly react the same way?

Lol! Exactly what I was thinking when I read the outrage expressed in this thread. Posts like 'AMD is being greedy' would probably be the norm....

ThaalR:

If only you ever "owned" a game ... But in these days an age you don't buy a game and own it, you only buy a licence to legally use the game for your own personal use. You now want to run it on Nvidia owned cloud hardware (that you are renting), Nvidia also needs a licence. Of course "you" should not have to pay twice for that game, Nvidia needs to however own one of them. That's the complicated way to just tell Nvidia .. Hey ... you can't just add games to your platform for free, pay the devs if you are going to use the games as an incentive to get more customer, you can't do it for free.

You do own the game if purchased from GOG.

Why ‘The Long Dark’ Developer Is Wrong To Pull The Game From GeForce Now March 3, 2020

With GeForce Now we are essentially just renting computing power. I’m hitching my ultrabook to Nvidia servers so that I can play games I already own on hardware that doesn’t have beefy graphics cards. Maybe if the service gets good enough, I’ll decide to stop upgrading my gaming PC and put all that saved money into games. (I mean, I probably won’t because I love upgrading my PC, but others might). Right away you can see the problem with Lierop’s reasoning. He refers to GeForce Now as a platform instead of a service. If GeForce Now were a platform and Nvidia had sold copies of The Long Dark without permission, that would indeed be problematic, especially if Hinterland Studio was cut out of the sales. Not just problematic but also, I imagine, very illegal. That is clearly not the case, however. This is more akin to a gaming cafe where you can login to a gaming PC and access your own Steam account and play your own games using rented hardware. Gaming cafes provide the hardware, not the software. They shouldn’t have to ask permission to do so from every game maker out there. That’s preposterous. (Note: This seems to have been Nvidia’s thinking and they apparently didn’t expect the reaction from publishers and devs, and honestly they probably should have anticipated it, so some of this falls on Nvidia’s shoulders, too). If I purchased The Long Dark on Steam, I should have the right to play it on any hardware or service that supports Steam. I bought your game, how do you have the right to tell me I can’t play it? What if my PC broke down and instead of buying a new one I started using GeForce Now exclusively? Now, because of arbitrary decisions by these studios, I can’t access the games I paid for. ... Some people think Nvidia ought to be giving game devs and publishers a cut of GeForce Now’s revenue. I’d like them to explain to me how that would work. There’s no game sale, no transaction, so how would Nvidia pay? This isn’t like Pandora where artists get a royalty for each time a song is played. We already own the games we’re playing. Nvidia is only making money based on providing us with a service to access those games. They would need to split up the revenue between thousands of games and studios with no metric to do so. It’s an absurd request. Again, the benefit to game makers is the wider audience and potential for increased sales. And just to be cool to their customers, I suppose, and earn goodwill instead of losing it.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2020/03/03/why-the-long-dark-developer-is-wrong-to-pull-the-game-from-geforce-now/#62d641b9ad2d

I think this is directed to the Cloud base gaming and not your PC to wireless device gaming https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce-now/ Choose a Membership Free CAN$0.00 / month Standard Access 1-Hour Session Length Founders CAN$6.49 / month For 12 Months Priority Access Extended Session Length RTX ON Free 90-Day Introductory Period* Geforce Now does both ... In fact you can start "Geforce now" to go to your desktop and run any application you want through any wireless device. I am not saying one day this feature will not disappear but this article is not about you using a NVIDIA PC to stream games to another device or even stopping you from playing your games from your gaming PC to your tablet ... For example: Moonlight for non-NVIDIA devices https://moonlight-stream.org/ OR NVIDIA to NVIDIA devices E.G.: NVIDIA Gaming PC to NVIDIA shield tablet. This is more toward you not having those games on the cloud server. NVIDIA started this to help them push there NVIDIA shield TV devices as a gaming console, of course also opening it up for lower end PC to play RTX quality games (if your WiFi can handle it). https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/shield/ NVIDIA could not sell them on this concept, simple as that, so developers leave.

Gil Vilhena:

I think this is directed to the Cloud base gaming and not your PC to wireless device gaming https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce-now/ Choose a Membership Free CAN$0.00 / month Standard Access 1-Hour Session Length Founders CAN$6.49 / month For 12 Months Priority Access Extended Session Length RTX ON Free 90-Day Introductory Period* Geforce Now does both ... In fact you can start "Geforce now" to go to your desktop and run any application you want through any wireless device. I am not saying one day this feature will not disappear but this article is not about you using a NVIDIA PC to stream games to another device or even stopping you from playing your games from your gaming PC to your tablet ... Moonlight for non-NVIDIA devices https://moonlight-stream.org/ OR NVIDIA to NVIDIA devices E.G.: NVIDIA shield tablet. This is more toward you not having those games on the cloud server. NVIDIA started this to help them push there NVIDIA shield TV devices as a gaming console, of course also opening it up for lower end NVIDIA PC to play RTX quality games (if your WiFi can handle it). https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/shield/ NVIDIA could not sell them on this concept, simple as that, so developers leave.

Everyone here knows that and nothing you said addresses the fact that in both cases there is nothing in the EULA for The Long Dark that specifically says we can't stream the games we own. I don't think the developer of the game has a legal basis to disallow me from playing it remotely.

so what you are saying ... is right now you can not run this game from your NVIDIA gaming PC to a tablet? I would be surprised if you can not, but will you find this game on there cloud service? the answer is no Just because you bought a game on Steam does not mean you can play the same game on Geforce now "cloud service", same as owning a game on your PS4, will not work on the Xbox 1 Plus Steam can stream games to other computers with the same account with no problem, allowing one Gaming PC to play the game but the other to control it. it is not about streaming games but the developers getting what they want as payment.

Gil Vilhena:

Just because you bought a game on Steam does not mean you can play the same game on Geforce now "cloud service", same as owning a game on your PS4, will not work on the Xbox 1

No it's not at all the same as a PS4 game working on XBX1. It's the same as if I rented a PS4 from gamestop and took a PS4 game that i bought and plugged it in and it didn't work. The developer said no, they instead want me to buy a "rent only" version of the game that works with rented consoles when they launch it at some point. That's the analogy. Now explain to me how that's fair given that when I purchased the title there was no such restriction. Honestly the fact that it's cloud based makes no difference in legality. Bottom line is that I purchased a game with no restriction on playing it remotely and now the developer retroactively added a restriction because they want to double dip in game sales.

[youtube=ed90QmHKVZ4]

sykozis:

So..... Let me ask this question. IF AMD had setup a game streaming platform instead of NVidia.... How many of you would honestly react the same way?

if AMD set up a streaming platform with the same quality and implementation, all of us would.

Aitortxo:

You do own the game if purchased from GOG.

No, you definitely do not. Your understanding of what it means to own a game is vastly wrong.

Ok all this talk of owning a game has gotten really stupid. I have nearly 100 games on cd/dvd that I've amassed over 20 + years that I OWN! I can do whatever the hell I want with them.

jbscotchman:

Ok all this talk of owning a game has gotten really stupid. I have nearly 100 games on cd/dvd that I've amassed over 20 + years that I OWN! I can do whatever the hell I want with them.

You do not own them, you own the physical media they exist on, that's it. You have no right to duplicate, alter, etc. Anything about the game, therefor you do not own it. If you choose to not understand this very simple thing that's a you problem. Same thing with movies and music. Buy it physically? Great! Doesn't mean you own the movie or music, if you did, then you'd be allowed to duplicate and sell (or even give away for free) it from your one copy....but you legally can't, that's called piracy, because you do not own it. I worry about the human race that some people apparently can't grasp the most simple of things.

Aura89:

You do not own them, you own the physical media they exist on, that's it. You have no right to duplicate, alter, etc. Anything about the game, therefor you do not own it. If you choose to not understand this very simple thing that's a you problem.

Sorta of like 'buying' a car in my neck of the woods. When my friends tell me that they are gonna buy a new car, I'd remind them that they are actually leasing a car for 10 years (much higher cost than anywhere else in the world at that). To buy something implies ownership, we don't own the car per se, as there's a limit of 10 years for brand new cars during which we can use the car. After which, should we wanna extend the usage of the car, we'd have to pay the government 25k USD or higher. Yep, a car here cost almost three time what it cost in the US. I understand that for CDs and Blurays I've gotten, I own the media and am free to use as often as I like at home. But, should I offer to let public listen to my CDs, or let public view my Bluray movies (even without charging for it) I have breached the copyright law (or something like that). The same principle applies here for GeForce now, from where I'm standing, some may argue like in the vid that it wasn't stated in the EULA that this isn't allowed. True, but GeForce Now is something new, and I think game devs do have the right to object to it. I think future EULAs would most likely to exclude GeForce Now specifically to avoid such a misunderstanding. Don't jump on my back, just offering my view as an average run-of-the-mill joe shmoe....

mikeysg:

Sorta of like 'buying' a car in my neck of the woods. When my friends tell me that they are gonna buy a new car, I'd remind them that they are actually leasing a car for 10 years (much higher cost than anywhere else in the world at that). To buy something implies ownership, we don't own the car per se, as there's a limit of 10 years for brand new cars during which we can use the car. After which, should we wanna extend the usage of the car, we'd have to pay the government 25k USD or higher. Yep, a car here cost almost three time what it cost in the US.

Where is this? I want to remember never to move there lol

Aura89:

Where is this? I want to remember never to move there lol

Singapore! The COE price (Certificate Of Entitlement, basically a piece of paper that you'd have to pay to be entitled to 'buy' a car here) has dropped substantially as of late, used to be twice at its peak, now at about lowest in recent memory at about 25k USD. Here's an article of the crazy price we'd have to pay to 'buy' aka lease a car for 10 years, for your edification. https://dollarsandsense.sg/no-nonsense-explanation-on-why-cars-in-singapore-are-so-expensive/ Edit - That's why, when people talk about buying a luxury car in the US/Canada for 70k USD (or CAD equivalent) or higher, we'd go, "That's expensive?!"

angelgraves13:

If I was Nvidia, I'd just shut down this service. Too much politics. We just want to play games.... damn bean counters.

People said the same about Steam 16 years ago. There actually way more politics and issues around around it, yet here we are! No need to be afraid of the change my dear @angelgraves13 . Technology is moving forward, politics have to adjust to it.

The few times I’ve tried GeForce Now it worked really well. I don’t as also happy I didn’t have to rebuy my games. That alone makes it nearly worth them ironing out the handful of Dev squabbles. It great for traveling (fast hotel internet willing of course) because you could play your favorite games on a net book or something.

This says a lot about Hinterland Studio's more than it does Nvidia... pathetic game studio.