... and be ready to pay $18 or €16 per month for the rest of your life. Maybe more, because you need those ISKIES and with pirates blowing up your stuff, you'll need to use your RL wallet to recover the loss. Or use 2, 3, 4+ accounts (multiply the monthly pay, of course) because those damn ALTS are so useful ! Please don't ask me how much *cough*over 1000*cough* euros I spend on this game already... I will not answer ! -- p.s. For those that will inevitably say: "but... but... but... the game is free-to-play !" NO, it is NOT. That's a Lie with big bold L 99.8% of the content that exists in that game requires a subscription.

I played from 2008 to 2016 religiously. Did everything I wanted to set out to do in the game. Even helped manage, by accident, the most organised LGBTQ alliance in Wicked Creek. But as Wavetrex said above, the game is a drain on your financial resources. Also, it took too much of my time to keep up. In the end I dropped it and haven't looked back. Now I play Final Fantasy 14 and I've been enjoying it since.

wavetrex:

... and be ready to pay $18 or €16 per month for the rest of your life. Maybe more, because you need those ISKIES and with pirates blowing up your stuff, you'll need to use your RL wallet to recover the loss. Or use 2, 3, 4+ accounts (multiply the monthly pay, of course) because those damn ALTS are so useful ! Please don't ask me how much *cough*over 1000*cough* euros I spend on this game already... I will not answer ! -- p.s. For those that will inevitably say: "but... but... but... the game is free-to-play !" NO, it is NOT. That's a Lie with big bold L 99.8% of the content that exists in that game requires a subscription.

Sad but true. I actually worked for CCP over ten years ago (contracted/out-sourced) and I can tell you that they had no clues as to how they should move their company forward positively. At all. The main focus was to continuously pacify their customer-base by releasing 'flashy videos' and 'content', which typically involved bigger/better ships and/or, more skills for existing content. This philosophy was the reason why instead of fixing bugs, they would push push push, for more ships and gameplay, like dreads, titans, planetary interaction and ambulation (2007). CCP's ultimate failure was the inability to understand that for each new piece of content you introduce, you then increase the quantity of staff required to manage the content, which will inevitably lead to a break-point in your revenue. The cost of running EVE would be greater than the revenue it generated, but that was not the only non-forward-thinking problem. The long-long-long term problem they always faced was the skill training, as the likelihood of getting new players, kept getting lower, as the free-trial period would reveal that (on the exit interview) new players felt overwhelmed by the fact that there are players who had been playing ten years and had skill-training of the same level, and therefore, had access to ships and weapons that a new player did not. A new player would undock for the first time, see another player in a tech2 BS, for example, look up the cost, the skills required, then the skills required for the t2 weapons and just say...."OMFG that's two years of skills!!!". This, killed the game. These two intractable points of skill training, and deliberate and intentional increasing of the skill gap through pacification of existing players, are unforgivable. I did enjoy working with them, and I did get access to a 'dev' account, with all of the backslash commands like, say, if you wanted to insta-teleport to another point in new eden, well, that was a simple: TR[space]playername[space]solarsystem. "TR" simply meant "transfer" and you could perform the command on yourself. So, if I wanted to move you to Jita, that would be: "TR wavetrex Jita". fun stuff, and yes... I did go to Jove space.

I have played EVE a lot from about 2010 to 2011, not very long but I did spend many many hours in the EVE Universe. Then I decided to quit and focus on other things. I still have fond memories about the game and sometimes look at the patch notes to see what's new. All three post above are very negative and even contain some errors, while there is a lot to like about EVE so even while I haven't played in a while I still wanted to correct some errors and add some positive points about EVE. EVE has some things going for it and it has some things against but at least it is a very unique and in depth game which is something nice in a world with so many repetitive games with almost no improvement being released each year like Fifa, Call of Duty and Assassin Creed for example. That's no to say the other games are bad but EVE is special. First: Money. EVE is a subscription based game, like World of Warcraft, unlike the money grabbers extraordinaire of WoWs with EVE you don't also have to pay for expansions, this is a good model in my opinion, you pay monthly and then get everything. That is a fair model. Pricing for EVE is € 14.95 a month or 12.95 if you buy 3 months at once or € 11.95 if you buy 6 months at once. That is a lot of money but less then WoWs and not the € 16.- a month mentioned above. Also you can put in more money to acquire extra in game money (via plex) of extra skill points to boost training of your character or you can pay extra subscriptions if you want to use and train multiple characters. This not needed, I have never payed for any of those extra's and never really wished I did or could. I fact, I payed even less because you can buy your subscription with in game money. However I do not recommend doing this or planning to play for free with this system. I was pretty efficient in making money, doing missions in wormhole space and producing a long list of in game items, and it took me on average 3 evenings a week of in game earnings to play for free. Now this means that in order to also acquire some things in game like a new ship I had to play more then 3 evenings a week. Just be prepared to pay € 12.95 for every three months (the 3 month is a good way to not pin your future in the game too far ahead but still get a reasonable discount) Second: Positive things about the game. EVE is playable since 2003 that's a very long time, and the game has continuously improved and expanded, the amount of extra content since the beginning is enormous, the graphics have improved a lot, the UI is one of the best in any game as it is so customizable. EVE is a game were you can opt for many different play styles. You can focus on being a mission runner, miner, producer, trader, and much more. And with each of these choices there is an reasonable to enormous amount of variation possible, the hardest thing is to choose what you want to do. EVE is a game with an very large universe, which is teaming with life and adventure (in contrast to some games with procedural generated star systems which is larger but also very empty) EVE has one of the best in game economies were almost anything in game is produced by players, there is real trading as it takes time for products to travel around the universe (also done by players) and the interface for selling and buying is so good, its still the best I have even seen in any game since. Every time I play a game with trading I think, EVE did this better. EVE has one of the best character creators around, though when I played it you created a character in 3D and made a 2D photo of it to use in game, not sure if you now can walk around or that thing was cancelled. Still it was fun a good to see, even today I am still disappointed with the character creator of many new games and I think of EVE as the best one yet, already so many years ago. EVE's big space battles are something unique and very cool too take part in. EVE is around for so many years, and even if you start now with a new character you can influence the universe and be interesting to a corporation in a very short time due to the great way the skill system is designed. Some things in game will take quite some time to acquire but that makes it also more special. it does mean that as a new player you cannot get certain ships, you grow towards new ones over time, but the smart way the skills are designed meant you can really grow fast in the beginning. Most skills have five levels and those levels give you a certain bonus that slowly increases, however going from level 4 to 5 takes much more time than going from 3 to 4 etc. So you can start with a new skill reasonably quick while getting the most efficient takes a long time and is seldom a necessity. EVE is a lot of fun, even more so with friends. I remember starting out with a very small ship, doing missions and upgrading my ship, getting a bigger one, upgrading it and deciding how I wanted to to play it and acquiring the necessary modules for it. Starting to produce, getting a large cargo ship. Making a ship for reclaiming all space loot after a battle, creating a gas harvester ship to mine gas clouds, getting a small stealth ships with scanner probes looking for wormholes. The sheer possibilities are incredible. Last: Free play It is good to know the free version of EVE is a very good way to see if you like the game, but the limitations of the free account are such that in order to keep growing you will need to pay the monthly fee. I don't think this is a problem but know in advance that the free version is like a limited but long trial. Its no free play like Apex Legends, Counter Strike, DOTA 2 etc etc where you can really keep on playing for free and enjoy the full game. So I highly recommend you get the free version with the extra stuff now for free on steam, try the game, while knowing that if you like it you will need to pay to enjoy the full experience. And unlike Wows where you need to pay monthly and pay for expansions, here everything is included, all expansions now and in the future will just be there for you for that monthly fee. PS: I quit playing because I spend too much time playing and I sometimes wanted to do something else, paying € 13 euro's a month for very little game time was not very interesting and I was in a wormhole corporation with many wonderful and mature people and keeping this running required some regular time investment. Going back to high-sec space with my own corp was not very interesting as I already had the largest mission ship possible (Apocalypse NI), largest transport ship (Providence) and there was little progress to be had.

@AeroWB, the cost varies depending where you play from. It's cheapest in US but goes up quite a lot in some Eastern-European countries, due to different taxes and conversion rates. Also, there's variance on CCP itself, prices go up and down slightly... and then there's buying PLEX, which is more costly than the direct subscription. My numbers were a sort of "base average", not an exact measure. But yes, as you said, this game is not free, and never was.

AeroWB:

All three post above are very negative and even contain some errors, while there is a lot to like about EVE so even while I haven't played in a while I still wanted to correct some errors and add some positive points about EVE.

Please, tell me what I got wrong and, lest we not forget two very important points: 1) If someone calls me negative, that is what a optimist calls a realist. 2) The most powerful piece in a game of chess, is the one who does not know they stand on a chessboard.

@wavetrex, I did not know the cost depends on the country, however the current prices are exactly the same then 10 years ago, so due to inflation it has gotten a bit cheaper actually 🙂 I am from the Netherlands were tax is quite high (21% VAT) so I think its sad to hear in some countries this is even higher. My main problem with the 16 euro was that you can actually pay less by getting 3 or 6 months in advance and if you make enough money in game you can even play some months free by getting in game Plex. Though as I stated just be prepared to pay each month if you really want to play this game. Acquiring Plex for real money is a way to get extra in game money and not a way to play the game cheaper. The way its is done is very good I think as it is part of the economy and you cannot get unlimited money in the game, as overflowing the market with Plex would drop down the price in game. Also because Plex is used in game to get subscription time, the developers do not make a lot of extra money and this is a way to help people with less money but more time to also play it. @Loobyluggs, I have no problem being negative about things, nothing has only positive sides and I like to know both positive and negative aspects of a product before buying it. So yes being a realist is good I think. The marketing departments of many companies are always very one sided so some user opinions are good to have. However just as I said before, the 3 post that were there al three mostly pointed out negative things, which in my opinion is unfair to EVE, the game, the developers and the players. The game has a lot going for it and is unique in several ways. Its also very good in several ways. The fact that almost ten years later every game I played with an economy and trading, a character customization or a changeable UI is inferior in most aspects to what EVE did that many years ago shows that it has some very good developpers. Also I mentioned the fun I had while playing, which is obviously the most important aspect of a game. So I needed to add some positive things about EVE to the discussion to balance it our so to speak. Regarding errors, I pointed out the price as put forward was incorrect, though it appears that price is correct in some countries, still there is discount and plex to change the actual price you pay to play the game. If you want you can play it for free but it'll be a grindfest. There are people who do it, not my recommendation though. Second I disagree with you on the skill system:

Loobyluggs:

Sad but true. The long-long-long term problem they always faced was the skill training, as the likelihood of getting new players, kept getting lower, as the free-trial period would reveal that (on the exit interview) new players felt overwhelmed by the fact that there are players who had been playing ten years and had skill-training of the same level, and therefore, had access to ships and weapons that a new player did not. A new player would undock for the first time, see another player in a tech2 BS, for example, look up the cost, the skills required, then the skills required for the t2 weapons and just say...."OMFG that's two years of skills!!!". This, killed the game.

As a new player in year 7 of the game I was worried about this at first also, as some people were training for many years already and had many more skill points. When I started playing the game I found out that this is not a big problem at all as you can be a competitive player with many skills on level 3 or 4 instead of 5 what a long time player could have. Still the difference is small and because there is so much to choose from no one not even day 1 players will have all skills maxed. The fact that some of the more extreme things like tech 2 ships are taking over a year is not a problem as there is enough to do and acquire in the mean time, especially since a tech 2 ship is not that more powerful, it has its pro's true, but there are also cons. Dying in a tech 2 ship will drop a level 5 skill for a Tech 2 ship to 4 which is very costly and therefore tech 2 ships are normally only used for specific missions as there is risk involved. Also flying command ships, carriers, dreadnoughts will take you over 2 years of training. But those are so expensive they are mostly used in bigger corporations and never are those used alone, even in the end game the battlecruisers are still interesting and often used and these can be had in a couple of months. So its never that simple like in many RPG's were a level 10 character has no chance against a level 30, this game has much more depth to it. I was flying the largest ships that could fly in high-sec within one year. And never did I buy skill points or plex. Today its even changed as now you can get a starter pack with a ton of skill points to get a very fast boost so you could acquire these even faster. Basically the mechanic is very simple to keep the game interesting for new players, its called inflation. In EVE its skill point inflation (as new characters can start with starting points, its somewhat comparable to new WoWs characters that can be boost to level 30 or something) and second of all the ingame currency Isk shows inflation and there is the constant addition of new skills, ships, carreers that not only keep it interesting for the long time players but these give new players more choices and even makes it possible to be better in such an area than a long time player.

An error was encountered while processing your request: There was a problem adding this product to your Steam account.

I appreciate the candour of your post, I truly do - but CCP is the one who disagrees with you, not me. They knew the extent of the problem as I laid it out i my post and even had an entire 'department' setup for this called "NPE" or, New Player Experience. The KEY reason for this 'department' is the very thing you claim to be in support of: the skill system. When new players left the trial period, the reasons listed on the exit interview were "the skill system". New players found it mildly interesting, novel, different etc - but when faced with the prospect of blowing up a big ship, no one at CCP could argue that this new player literally cannot compete against raw fire-power/speed. The 'true' skill of a player in (mostly) all other games has nothing to do with how long they play the game. So, when coming to new eden and undocking for the first time to explore, they were met with a figurative brick wall that no matter how good they were, they would have to wait for several years to actually play with the big toys on the shelf. That's one end of the spectrum, so, now let's look at the other end: 0.0 0.0 is the 'end game' for PvP, yet, to keep those people happy, you must add more skills because you have a skill system, and so you keep adding skills/ships/weapons/gadgets/game modes, that ultimately only truly exist to pacify players to stop them from leaving the game. CCP knew what they had to do and backed themselves into a corner with the skill system, and were left with no choice but to continuously add content, extending the development cost, yet slowing eroding customer confidence and dramatically lowering the interest of new players through attrition. For those that need a completely simplistic analogy: Imagine playing CS:GO for the first time and finding out the AWP is only available to you once you play the game for 3 years. How long do you think the game would hold your interest; knowing that every single new player cannot use the AWP?

TheDeeGee:

An error was encountered while processing your request: There was a problem adding this product to your Steam account.

I had the same issue. I thought that -as this is a DLC- maybe the base game is mandatory. So I installed the base game (200MB), then I could add the Starter Pack to the library.

Loobyluggs:

knowing that every single new player cannot use the AWP?

With EvE it's more in the shape of: Every new player can only use knife. After 2 weeks, they can also use R8 revolver and nothing else After 2 months, Dual Berettas ... For AWP you need something like 3-4 years of training with max learning implants in your head (expensive!) (And then some bottom-feeding gang kills you 10 minutes when they see you with AWP, and you lose your AWP, and have to grind with Dual Berettas for a few weeks just to afford the money to buy AWP again. And they do it "just for fun" - read: griefing, and no other reason, and that is totally acceptable in that game. The more you grief others the more "Pro" you are) That is EvE. https://i.redd.it/sjizz11eshty.jpg

@Loobyluggs and @wavetrex, its interesting to hear CCP themselves think the skill system is a problem, I'd guess they have asked many players why they left so its probably an important issue. I think that there is a difference with the game now as opposed to 9 years ago when I played last. Also I think It depends heavily on what you want from the game. I really enjoyed games like Wing Commander, Freespace, Tachyon and Nexus the Jupiter Incident where you start out with a small ship and during the story line you get different and more powerful ships. Unfortunately patience is not something that's valued enough anymore and people want to start and immediately be competitive with the long term players. In a game like CS:Go having to grind years for better weapons would indeed be ridiculous and prevent new players to join, but that is a pretty different type of game. You don't start with a max level character in Diablo, Guildwars or Tera for example as most content is not PvP. EVE is a little less well defined and going with your low level character and start ship to low-sec or 0.0 is most likely not a good idea, but that's where high-sec is for. There is still a risk but not to big. So yes if you want to play this you will need to pay after outgrowing the free character limitations, you need to play for multiple years to be able to go 0.0 of wormhole space and you will need to learn a lot and get involved in a game that has a depth that no other game can match. Its best you enjoy spreadsheets, separate tools like EVEmon and EFT and lots of other tools and guides etc. This game is not for everyone About the latest additions like Dusk 514 and others, I do not know. Maybe the current game is broken and the problems are much much bigger then many years ago when I played. When I started it was a very interesting experience and a lot of fun. I can not imagine that all good things are gone and its only misery. So please if you give your opinion on any game or anything in general, always mention the most important pro's and con's to you. Don't only tell con's or pro's, that can almost never be a good review or opinion.

AeroWB:

@Loobyluggs and @wavetrex, its interesting to hear CCP themselves think the skill system is a problem, I'd guess they have asked many players why they left so its probably an important issue. I think that there is a difference with the game now as opposed to 9 years ago when I played last. Also I think It depends heavily on what you want from the game. I really enjoyed games like Wing Commander, Freespace, Tachyon and Nexus the Jupiter Incident where you start out with a small ship and during the story line you get different and more powerful ships. Unfortunately patience is not something that's valued enough anymore and people want to start and immediately be competitive with the long term players. In a game like CS:Go having to grind years for better weapons would indeed be ridiculous and prevent new players to join, but that is a pretty different type of game. You don't start with a max level character in Diablo, Guildwars or Tera for example as most content is not PvP. EVE is a little less well defined and going with your low level character and start ship to low-sec or 0.0 is most likely not a good idea, but that's where high-sec is for. There is still a risk but not to big. So yes if you want to play this you will need to pay after outgrowing the free character limitations, you need to play for multiple years to be able to go 0.0 of wormhole space and you will need to learn a lot and get involved in a game that has a depth that no other game can match. Its best you enjoy spreadsheets, separate tools like EVEmon and EFT and lots of other tools and guides etc. This game is not for everyone About the latest additions like Dusk 514 and others, I do not know. Maybe the current game is broken and the problems are much much bigger then many years ago when I played. When I started it was a very interesting experience and a lot of fun. I can not imagine that all good things are gone and its only misery. So please if you give your opinion on any game or anything in general, always mention the most important pro's and con's to you. Don't only tell con's or pro's, that can almost never be a good review or opinion.

They disagree with you. The skill system is a problem for the reasons I already gave, but again: it turns off the majority of new players as evidenced by the exit interview. You know what the second thing people used to say about EVE? It's boring.

That the skill system is a problem for most new players is certainly a cause for concern but my experience with it was different. Apparently I am not part of the majority of the new players or it has changed the last years. We don't necessarily disagree on this, "for me it wasn't a problem" and "for the majority of new players it is a problem" are not mutually exclusive statements. Still for CCCP having a game mechanic that turns away most new players is a problem for them, so they certainly should find a way to change this fact. So if my original post read like a dismissal of any problems with the skill system I did not do a good job writing it, I should have made it clear its not always a problem or its not a problem for everyone as you can still enjoy the game with that system. Most people are stupid, so what most people say about something is not necessarily true. Look at many leaders that were voted for by the people is some countries, that fact proves my point. Now EVE has so many possibilities and game mechanics and things that someone who says EVE is boring is either not looking hard enough or they prefer different type of games. EVE is very unique and certainly not suitable for the majority of gamers, that doesn't mean its a bad game so some positive things needed to be said in this discussion to make it more balanced.

AeroWB:

That the skill system is a problem for most new players is certainly a cause for concern but my experience with it was different. Apparently I am not part of the majority of the new players or it has changed the last years. We don't necessarily disagree on this, "for me it wasn't a problem" and "for the majority of new players it is a problem" are not mutually exclusive statements. Still for CCCP having a game mechanic that turns away most new players is a problem for them, so they certainly should find a way to change this fact. So if my original post read like a dismissal of any problems with the skill system I did not do a good job writing it, I should have made it clear its not always a problem or its not a problem for everyone as you can still enjoy the game with that system. Most people are stupid, so what most people say about something is not necessarily true. Look at many leaders that were voted for by the people is some countries, that fact proves my point. Now EVE has so many possibilities and game mechanics and things that someone who says EVE is boring is either not looking hard enough or they prefer different type of games. EVE is very unique and certainly not suitable for the majority of gamers, that doesn't mean its a bad game so some positive things needed to be said in this discussion to make it more balanced.

I've highlighted the two statements that are contradictory, and this; coupled with your total post count of 4 (all in this thread) leads me to think in directions that mean either we take this offline in another thread (if so, please link it here) or, simply walk away from this particular thread, as this section is truthfully just for 'news'. EVE is dead, and that was news in 2006 after the ECM, drones, blaster and nano-nerfs that took place after CCP TomB left, and took his l33t mathematical mind elsewhere from the Ultima Online battlegrounds with which it was forged. This is no longer news. Go get a spade and dig it a hole - because not even Dire Lauthris could save this game.

As a former member of Corp1, the game was fun back in the day. What killed the game was them allowing newbies to instantly fly around in a battleship and not have the skills to operate properly. 0.0 space has all the best loot but the most risk as well. Fleet battles of 100 v 100 locked down systems which now one has to notify admin of a major battle beforehand for resource balancing. The request is also what killed it. Training can be completed while offline. So it is not a game for most. It requires a lot of thinking and ship setup is very structured. There are spreadsheets one uses to setup ships that are good for a certain amount of damage sustainability and balancing that with damage dealt. Not everyone likes to think when wanting to unwind.

Clouseau:

As a former member of Corp1, the game was fun back in the day. What killed the game was them allowing newbies to instantly fly around in a battleship and not have the skills to operate properly. 0.0 space has all the best loot but the most risk as well. Fleet battles of 100 v 100 locked down systems which now one has to notify admin of a major battle beforehand for resource balancing. The request is also what killed it. Training can be completed while offline. So it is not a game for most. It requires a lot of thinking and ship setup is very structured. There are spreadsheets one uses to setup ships that are good for a certain amount of damage sustainability and balancing that with damage dealt. Not everyone likes to think when wanting to unwind.

Newbies in BS did not kill the game (that was an isk sink) and fleet battles of 100 v 100 would not need to have happened, if the RPG elements of the game were properly thought out, prior to coding the game originally. The reasons why there were 'huge' battles were part of the reason why the game failed. DPS always won over tactics, because that WAS the tactic.