Chinese CPU Manufacturer Introduces 32-Core Chiplet-Based Processor
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fantaskarsef
Well, they are making progress imho.
fry178
not that i will get one, but funny how its always compared/supposed to be equal to intel/amd to be relevant.
if just 25% of its population buy it (~350M), that's almost the whole US/ multiple european countries,
enough to make a profit...
ignoring all other low-income country/area that might be interested,
just because its more affordable.
Venix
@fry178 with the USA trade war and USA cutting off cutting edge silicon sale towards china ...now more than ever they will rush to make a solution of their own so they are never dependent on that front as well. I am sure some will know a lot more on the subject feel free to specify or correct me !
H83
This^^
And i think China is going to catch up faster than expected.
fantaskarsef
Honestly, I'd be surprised if those bans of the US would have any real impact in the long run. After all, there's a 50-60 year phase where especially US companies were very eager to take all of their know how and bring it to China so they can produce w/e good cheaper. Which of course now shows what hypocrits they are.
By now, I think Chinese engineers are more than smart enough to compete with any US engineer, and it's only a matter of time before they will be their full equals in terms of possibilities.
Right now, the only things holding China back are software for CPU design (which too is part of the chip embargo), and machines to actually fabricate the wafers (anything in the single digit nm I believe).
The thing is, this mostly, mostly, only makes the super computers bigger and more power hungry, not slower. And another thing the US will feel even more in the future, the resources to actually produce CPUs (rare materials and metals, noble gasses) are also a limiting factor, which in return is Chinese dominated I believe.
So in the end, "we ban China" is not yet the end of that battle. At least not in my humble guess.
moo100times
Let's not forget Russia needs chips from somewhere
Horus-Anhur
China bans export of its Loongson CPUs to Russia
We have to remember that China and Russia are not friends. Not even during the cold war, with both being communist countries. In fact they were bitter rivals.
China did take advantage of buying Russia weapons for the last decades, so they could arm themselves and reverse engineer them.
But now China has surpassed Russia in all areas, so they don't need their equipment anymore.
The only thing that Russia has that China wants is oil gas and some minerals. But since western countries are boycotting Russia, it means China can take advantage of Russia's lack of options, meaning they can buy it cheaper.
Mufflore
It becomes clearer why China need to rule Taiwan.
The quicker way to the top.
fry178
@fantaskarsef
+80% of the reasons for a "ban", is related to gov/mil/def sector, not the consumer market, that's just what gets affected too.
do you really want your stuff being equipped with chips you dont "fully" control, nor 100% to know what is "going on" inside it?
much easier than attacking/hacking or anything else, just provoke, wait for the opponent to launch their "strike",
then disable all "your chips" in their weapons all at once...
fantaskarsef
You do know, that as a European, that's a general fact for us here anyway? Or do you think that any US / Nato weapon system would not have such kill codes for a certain #1 military machine already? 😀
Why was there such a big issue with the F35 availability to Turkey, a Nato partner, and their buying of Russian air defense systems (S400 iirc), when the US already mentioned that their using both could compromise F35 software security?
Already by now the US do know first where all the other F35s are, what they do, and who is using them, since the communication of these systems runs over a cloud based in the US? So that the US technically knows where a foreign airforce's F35 is before that foreign airforce even does get the information?
Also, nothing I wrote in my last post is aimed, or specifically mentions, the consumer market.
[EDIT] I am wrong, I did mention the companies going to China for cheaper production, and that applies to consumer goods mostly, so you are right fry, I apologize. Although the main intent of my post was to actually discuss the latest bans, e.g. the last few years, to clarify myself.
Stormyandcold
They are a people who ironically were known to have invented everything at one time in history. The saying "What wasn't invented in China?" is probably long forgotten in this generation. However, they are highly self-determined and can be extremely hard-working and with financing can achieve anything. I think we're looking at 5-10yrs maximum before they achieve a break-through with CPU technology. I'm sure we'll look back and it'll be ironic how we will then be banning importing their chips so as not to hurt our own industries.
fry178
They havent been "inventing" much in the past WWII, just cloning/reverse eng. stuff from other countries, the same way the USSR did during the cold war.
They want to gain on others as much and as fast as possible, even with the brightest ppl you wont make those leaps they had in recent years.
assuming im wrong:
please name 3 things they invented (not copied) in the past 30y, that are being used by virtually
all countries on the planet...
H83
True but we have to remember their context since the 1900s, they were an extremely poor country and far behind the most advanced countries in the world.
Then stuff happened, they changed to a socialist system, that at first did little, until they decided to open the country to the rest of the world and adopted a financial system similar to ours, in certain ways...
Then they did what other asian countries, like Japan, Taiwan and others, did before, building stuff for foreign companies and cheap copies of their products.
But now they have reached a tipping point in many areas, where they already have the knowledge and technical capacity to create their own stuff again instead of relying on copying so much like before.
This doesn`t mean i`m apologizing for their (shameful) copying, only that they followed a proven economical strategy and that now they are going to reap the rewards of that same strategy, like Japan and others.
fry178
Oh, sure, the only problem is if you copy/clone, you have never done R&D or even product testing (+100k cycles etc),
and a major problem once you have an important part fail unexpectedly (think of manned spacecraft).
and not even starting about how they treat their population, seems worse than Russia did during CW..
Venix
I mean ... In the past Russia dropped a nuke and marched part of their army threw the ground 0 to study the after effects. Russia will not loose the first spot that easy 😛
schmidtbag
In case people here don't know, the architecture is based on MIPS. This is slow compared to ARM. These chips ain't going to impress any time soon.
H83
Of course, copying is much cheaper than creating something from scratch, but they still need some kind of testing in the end.
But now that they are starting to create their own stuff, they will have to spend money and time on R&D and on product testing.
As for how they treat their own population, yea it`s shameful to say the least but that`s another matter.
Baby steps.
fry178
@schmidtbag
and how relevant for, lets say, a school in the middle of nowhere and/or undeveloped country, using computers?
enough things this will work just fine.
the same way a child friendly tablet, doesnt get measured against some +800$ device from a fruity brand.
not everything is designed with "us" here in mind .. 😀
schmidtbag
Understood. However, MIPS was mostly meant for educational purposes (for studying microarchitectures or OSes) or simple devices like network switches or microwave ovens. Its pretty crappy, which is why they need many cores to make up for the lacking ISA. The main benefit of China using it is the flexible license, it's mature in a software perspective, and lack of western dependency. RISC-V would have been the only other sensible option for them but that's too immature.
I'm pretty confident China is not using these to help their poorer communities, it's really just to help them ween off Intel, AMD, and ARM.
Stormyandcold
I'd love to fast forward 5yrs and see what they come up with
