AMD: ZEN3 architecture finished – expects 15% faster IPC

Astyanax

2019-11-22 14:36

Denial:

Yeah I also think this "completely new architecture" thing people keep saying and AMD keeps like throwing around is kind of nonsense. It's not a completely new architecture. Zen 1 wasn't even a completely new architecture - a ton of stuff was pulled in from Bulldozer. I feel like the tech community needs to create some kind of benchmark on how much a design needs to change to be considered a "new architecture".

Zen is a significant departure from the BD/PD arch, its much much closer to the Jaguar APU. http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/zen.jpg https://cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/7-Core-comparison-to-Jaguar.jpg

#5734061

-Tj-

2019-11-22 15:10

So 4000 series. Guess I'll switch from intel 4000 😀 I just want better latency.. guess it will be doable ~50us. And faster clocks. Stable 4.6 -4.7ghz across 8 cores. I will get 8core 16thread. Dont need more. The best thing would be, it would be ddr5 compatible, like some intel mobos that worked with ddr3&ddr4. That said, I can't wait.

#5734071

JamesSneed

2019-11-22 15:43

@Hilbert Hagedoorn How did you get from that statement they meant Zen3 would get 15% IPC? They certainly were talking about Zen2 and mentioned Zen3 would have a similar performance uplift but didn't mention IPC. I highly suspect a good deal of performance will be frequency from a much more mature process from TSMC. I expect 5-10% IPC with 10% clock increase in base and boost clocks.

#5734073

SniperX

2019-11-22 15:47

AMD twisting the knife...

#5734128

waltc3

2019-11-22 19:35

Anyone who has used Zen/+ and Zen 2 on a regular basis knows exactly why AMD says Zen2 is a new architecture--it behaves fundamentally different--difference between an R5 1600 and a R5 3600X is night and day, and certainly the major differences are not limited to stock clocks. Zen 3 will make some major changes, imo, improvements on Zen 2 IPC of ~15% does not sound far fetched at all, and may turn out to be conservative--the difference in IPC in toto between Zen/+ and Zen 2 was more closely on the order of 30% in many cases, when all factors including cache and clocks are tallied up. I very much like it that AMD is being more conservative in its estimates these days--makes for nice surprises when the products finally ship.

#5734129

Reddoguk

2019-11-22 19:37

Even if it is only 10% that'll be enough i feel to overtake Intel as the number one CPUs for gaming. Intel is still the leader in gaming by only a few percentage now, so any IPC increase by AMD will be a win win for AMD and us. I think it'll still be AM4 socket but a new chipset may be released 670X maybe.

#5734144

LEEc337

2019-11-22 20:37

If it's the same socket would previous gen Ryzen work with ddr5 and wouldn't that increase bandwidth for the bandwidth sensitive early Ryzens or is the cpu limited to ddr4 in hardware

#5734153

robintson

2019-11-22 21:22

angelgraves13:

They’ve redesigned the architecture for Zen 3. The cache will be very different and not have latency issues like Zen 2 because of CCX. The cache will be shared by all cores, so it won’t matter if Windows makes a single thread jump from core to core all over the CPU. There might even be a L4 cache.

Lets hope they will lower the Latency and fix Core Scheduling performance loss which is present in Zen 2. CCX , because Windows can't use the cores to their max. potential with Zen 2 CPU's. Agree that big part of the improvements in IPC will come from the cache memory shared by all cores in Zen 3 for sure. First we fix the CCX design errors from Zen 2 in Zen 3 ,after we speak about the 15 % improvements in IPC in Zen 3, clear win win situation

#5734156

heffeque

2019-11-22 21:34

I just wish they'd build a decent CPU/APU for laptops that doesn't hog battery like current ones do. Intel basically has 100% of the laptop market (which is not a small market at all) and even nowadays it's still difficult to recommend anything with an AMD CPU/APU. As for their desktop CPUs, I'm impressed by Zen 2/3... but if I had to buy anything, I'd probably wait for Zen 4, which will have 3 or 4 threads per core, and will probably bring DDR5 (couldn't care less about PCI-Express 5.0 though). If Zen 3 delivers, surely Zen 4 will be a complete beast.

#5734161

HeavyHemi

2019-11-22 21:45

There's always going to be a latency penalty communicating BEWTWEEN CCX's. This is an inherent limitation of the design. You can some what mitigate via the evils such as branch prediction, you will not eliminate it.

#5734163

robintson

2019-11-22 21:50

AMD has a year or two , before Intel closes the performance gap, therefore now is time for AMD to come up every year with the new CPU architecture and new CPU design. Intel has 14 nm matured vs 7 nm new process technology that AMD has, it is more than obvious who is a winner here for me

#5734173

Mpampis

2019-11-22 22:17

I wish a Zen3 8core/16thread CPU would be compatible with my X370 motherboard. Then again, if not, Zen 3 would probably mean that I'd be able to get my hands on a 3700X on a really good price sometime in the future. That would bring a nice performance boost over my 1700.

#5734181

Aura89

2019-11-22 22:38

delete

#5734191

TheDeeGee

2019-11-22 23:25

Might as well hold on to my 4770K for a little longer then.

#5734210

Kaotik

2019-11-23 01:13

Denial:

Yeah I also think this "completely new architecture" thing people keep saying and AMD keeps like throwing around is kind of nonsense. It's not a completely new architecture. Zen 1 wasn't even a completely new architecture - a ton of stuff was pulled in from Bulldozer. I feel like the tech community needs to create some kind of benchmark on how much a design needs to change to be considered a "new architecture".

It's different enough for AMD to change processor family from 17h of Zen1/+/2 to 19h in Zen3. Granted, they've switched it once (or twice if you count going from CPU to APU) before on quite flimsy basis, but it's definitely not a habit

Mpampis:

I wish a Zen3 8core/16thread CPU would be compatible with my X370 motherboard. Then again, if not, Zen 3 would probably mean that I'd be able to get my hands on a 3700X on a really good price sometime in the future. That would bring a nice performance boost over my 1700.

So long as they can fit everything in the BIOS (which has been a challenge as we know) there's no reason it wouldn't work. Zen4 will require new socket and motherboard though (and memories to accompany, DDR5)

#5734265

Octopuss

2019-11-23 10:24

I am still holding onto overclocked 3770K, but it's finally turned into a major pain in the ass. Lightroom just doesn't work well it at all, freezing and being slow as hell all the time and I don't know if I can keep using this PC for much longer. Zen3 definitely looks like something to wait for, but we're looking at like 7 months from now at least. I just don't know.

#5734333

NewTRUMP Order

2019-11-23 14:48

Denial:

Where was the original estimate 8%? I'm just saying - the article headline is "AMD expects 15%" but then in the actual article, the guy basically says "15% for Zen 2 was basically an outlier because there was left over optimizations - expect a normal jump for Zen 3" which reads to me like less than 15%, not 15%. I doubt this is going to be a radical departure from Zen 2. It's not like a Bulldozer -> Zen jump.

Gee I just make things up ..….you got me! https://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/joao-silva/zen-3-could-see-ipc-gains-over-8-and-up-to-200mhz-faster-clocks/ https://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-should-be-worried-again-AMD-Zen-3-IPC-gains-rumored-to-be-greater-than-8-with-up-to-200-MHz-increase-in-clocks-compared-to-Zen-2.438940.0.html

#5734335

Denial

2019-11-23 15:00

NewTRUMP Order:

Gee I just make things up according to you...…. https://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-should-be-worried-again-AMD-Zen-3-IPC-gains-rumored-to-be-greater-than-8-with-up-to-200-MHz-increase-in-clocks-compared-to-Zen-2.438940.0.html

Yeah, I mean I was expecting an AMD estimate of 8% not a forum rumor. So now it's like forum rumor = 8% and then you're taking that rumor and saying it's easy to see how it could be 15%. It's speculation on top of speculation and the only statement we have from AMD is essentially "the 15% from Zen 2 was due to optimizations being pushed from Zen+, expect more normal numbers from Zen 3" Which to me means 4-6% IPC gain maybe 8 if you include the frequency bump.

#5734346

Astyanax

2019-11-23 16:15

Norrod did qualify his remarks by pointing out that Zen 2 delivered a bigger IPC gain than what's normal for an evolutionary upgrade -- AMD has said it's about 15% on average -- since it implemented some ideas that AMD originally had for Zen but had to leave on the cutting board. However, he also asserted that Zen 3 will deliver performance gains "right in line with what you would expect from an entirely new architecture."

it appears to be a misquote.

#5734358

Kaleid

2019-11-23 17:37

Great, not sure I will upgrade this time though unless it also works for AM4.