Except for the fact there is no money in enthusiast GPU's for the most part. The real money comes from the Tesla/Firepro and integrated GPU's/CPU's (Trinity, Tegra, etc.). Enthusiast GPU's aren't that hard to make so they are an easy high-margin money source, limited as they may be. Not to mention that the desktop PC is a dead end at this point going forward, no need to be in denial about that. Your smartphone nearly has the power of a high end desktop PC from 5-6 years ago, the new Windows 8 tablets/ultrabooks will have 99% of the power of a PC (the power that actually counts to 99% of users) and be able to do 99% of the tasks any desktop can do while remaining ultra portable. This desktop PC to my left is probably the last one I'll ever end up building for myself. Intel has seen the writing on the wall for a long time already, hence Haswell. Nvidia are no different, hence their focus on Tegra (which is a real money maker for them, especially with CUDA).

I don't think desktops will die out, there will always be a market for them. Gamers/HTPC users/office workers...whatever.

I dont buy that argument one bit, And I never will Yes phone have grown in power, and cause of that there battery life is pure trash, I dont buy them for anything other then to be cell phone, In terms of raw power they are not they same and will never be unless they come up with some huge break threw on batteries. Desktops are going no where

Are you kidding? Let's take laptops for a second: Ultrabooks: http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph6250/50498.png That's right, the average is 6.6 hours of straight internet browsing at the same processing power that you see on an average desktop (you know, the kind that most people buy from Dell). Now let's take powerhouse laptops (that can play games on high graphics) for example: http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph6351/50451.png That's 4.6 hours of straight internet browsing. So don't kid us about raw power being the limiting factor, because if you want "RAW POWER!!!" then you can plug in any of those laptops and play most games at a high level of detail and still push great FPS: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6351/the-new-razer-blade-thoroughly-reviewed/6 And just look at how long the iPhone 5 with its extremely high performing CPU can last, now just wait till Haswell and Cover Trail come along.

I don't think desktops will die out, there will always be a market for them. Gamers/HTPC users/office workers...whatever.

HTPC builders (i.e.- those using desktop components) are the niche of the niche market. And with the likes of Google TV, Apple TV, set top boxes and cheap Android units like the Mk808, this market has shrunk even further. Offices are all buying laptops these days, everyone I know that works at any major company told me that when their company are buying new equipment, they all get laptops, and sometimes in addition tablets. It's just that more efficient. All you have left are gamers, of which most are on consoles and mobile gaming. Desktop gaming is only a few tens of millions, and most don't use top end hardware to begin with. Just look at the Steam survey results, the top percentage of users just use the HD3000 iGPU: http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

Intel HD Graphics 3000 4.07%

Now look at how many people have an enthusiast class GPU:

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 0.63%

Not even 2/3 of a percent. And look at the CPU results:

3.3 Ghz to 3.69 Ghz 9.57% 3.7 Ghz and above 0.43%

So don't kid yourself that most people buy themselves "gaming systems", most just use whatever system they have on hand.

who cares how long you can browse on a gaming laptop? the question should be how long you can game on them not plugged into the wall

who cares how long you can browse on a gaming laptop? the question should be how long you can game on them not plugged into the wall

Let's say even two hours, that's two hours of gaming on the move longer than you would have been able to do with your desktop sitting in your room plugged into your wall. And like I said before, you can always plug it in... anywhere.

HTPC builders (i.e.- those using desktop components) are the niche of the niche market. And with the likes of Google TV, Apple TV, set top boxes and cheap Android units like the Mk808, this market has shrunk even further. Offices are all buying laptops these days, everyone I know that works at any major company told me that when their company are buying new equipment, they all get laptops, and sometimes in addition tablets. It's just that more efficient.

Not in my experience, I deal with several commercial clients that each have over 200 PC's and they all run desktops, we also deal with Universities and Technical Colleges that use desktops in their computer labs.

All you have left are gamers, of which most are on consoles and mobile gaming. Desktop gaming is only a few tens of millions, and most don't use top end hardware to begin with. Just look at the Steam survey results, the top percentage of users just use the HD3000 iGPU: http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey Now look at how many people have an enthusiast class GPU: Not even 2/3 of a percent. And look at the CPU results: So don't kid yourself that most people buy themselves "gaming systems", most just use whatever system they have on hand.

I never said most people buy gaming systems - nothing of the sort. What I said was there will always be a market for desktops - please pay attention to what I write. I have never considered steam surveys to be representative of the enthusiast crowd....just look how many steam users are still running XP - says it all really. Take cellphones - which have been around for years, but you don't seriously think call centre employees speak to you on a cellphone do you? Same principle....

All you have left are gamers, of which most are on consoles and mobile gaming. Desktop gaming is only a few tens of millions, and most don't use top end hardware to begin with. Just look at the Steam survey results, the top percentage of users just use the HD3000 iGPU: http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey Now look at how many people have an enthusiast class GPU: Not even 2/3 of a percent. And look at the CPU results: So don't kid yourself that most people buy themselves "gaming systems", most just use whatever system they have on hand.

Don't know what's this argument about, didn't read, but here I'll have to cut you off. This just shows that many Steam users do use new hardware. Stats showing high numbers of Intel HD graphics mean that many users have new Sandy/Ivy CPUs. It does not, however, mean that they are using Intel HD IGP. Keep in mind that Steam detects only primary video card, which in this case is Intel HD. I'm pretty sure that most of these Sandy/Ivy users have mid or high-end current or older gen video cards, which are fit for gaming. As far as GTX 680 goes, anyone interested in hardware knows that it's a very overpriced card. GTX 670 offers same performance @ 100$ lower price tag. GTX 500 cards make up a fair amount of stats. Also, what about CPUs? High clock doesn't mean it's a gaming CPU FFS. Not everyone is an overclocker, you know...

Not in my experience, I deal with several commercial clients that each have over 200 PC's and they all run desktops, we also deal with Universities and Technical Colleges that use desktops in their computer labs. I never said most people buy gaming systems - nothing of the sort. What I said was there will always be a market for desktops - please pay attention to what I write. I have never considered steam surveys to be representative of the enthusiast crowd....just look how many are still running XP - says it all. Take cellphones - which have been around for years, but you don't seriously think call centre employees speak to you on a cellphone do you? Same principle....

I see what you are saying, but even so I disagree and am saying that the market is going to dry up further. Again, let's take your example, education. It used to be that schools used to order dozens to a hundred desktops every x amount of years for their labs and faculty staff. Now I'm just going to take my local education system for example. Every single student is going to be getting a tablet (probably an iPad) to replace every single textbook, [teacher given] notebook and regular computer facilities. Every single school will have open WIFI as well. Furthermore, except for some old desktops being used for the secretary, all the faculty will have Laptops and Tablets. Even in your example of a computer lab, that was 200 desktops for a University size order. Let's say they even put in five orders a year like that, that's still a measly 1,000 desktops. Now let's times that by even 50 Universities (I'm grossly exaggerating the number upwards just to show you how disproportionate the market is), it is still only 50,000 desktops for the entire University system; that's barely a footnote. And as I mentioned, most businesses that I know are all moving to mobile as it offers higher productivity (allows the worker to bring home the work to continue it) for a price no higher for the most part than a desktop. And that's just today in 2012, fast forward just two years and you can imagine the niche the desktop is becoming.

Don't know what's this argument about, didn't read, but here I'll have to cut you off. This just shows that many Steam users do use new hardware. Stats showing high numbers of Intel HD graphics mean that many users have new Sandy/Ivy CPUs. It does not, however, mean that they are using Intel HD IGP. Keep in mind that Steam detects only primary video card, which in this case is Intel HD. I'm pretty sure that most of these Sandy/Ivy users have mid or high-end current or older gen video cards, which are fit for gaming. As far as GTX 680 goes, anyone interested in hardware knows that it's a very overpriced card. GTX 670 offers same performance @ 100$ lower price tag. GTX 500 cards make up a fair amount of stats. Also, what about CPUs? High clock doesn't mean it's a gaming CPU FFS. Not everyone is an overclocker, you know...

In regards to the CPU's, I just wanted to show how many people even go for the likes of an i5 2500k (and above) or AMD FX class of CPU, the answer is very few, even less when you count in the fact that the 3.3GHz class also includes some older Pentiums, etc. And this was just from Steam where there is an above average change of more powerful hardware being used. If I could get numbers from HP, Dell, etc, the numbers would be even bleaker.

Again, you can argue that all is fine with the desktop, etc. But you can't argue with the fact that the signs are on the wall about this shift amongst the major players [Intel - Haswell, Clover Trail, etc]. Hell, even Anand said so recently:

Today Intel's magic formula is being threatened. Within 8 years many expect all mainstream computing to move to smartphones, or whatever other ultra portable form factor computing device we're carrying around at that point. To put it in perspective, you'll be able to get something faster than an Ivy Bridge Ultrabook or MacBook Air, in something the size of your smartphone, in fewer than 8 years. The problem from Intel's perspective is that it has no foothold in the smartphone market. Although Medfield is finally shipping, the vast majority of smartphones sold feature ARM based SoCs. If all mainstream client computing moves to smartphones, and Intel doesn't take a dominant portion of the smartphone market, it will be left in the difficult position of having to support fabs that no longer run at the same capacity levels they once did. Without the volume it would become difficult to continue to support the fab business. And without the mainstream volume driving the fabs it would be difficult to continue to support the enterprise business. Intel wouldn't go away, but Wall Street wouldn't be happy. There's a good reason investors have been reaching out to any and everyone to try and get a handle on what is going to happen in the Intel v ARM race.

Let's face it, no one wants to be tied down if they don't have to.

Wow, this is really bad news. I hope this doesn't ultimately become an Intel monopoly where they can rape us even more for their products than they already do.

I see what you are saying, but even so I disagree and am saying that the market is going to dry up further. Again, let's take your example, education. It used to be that schools used to order dozens to a hundred desktops every x amount of years for their labs and faculty staff. Now I'm just going to take my local education system for example. Every single student is going to be getting a tablet (probably an iPad) to replace every single textbook, [teacher given] notebook and regular computer facilities. Every single school will have open WIFI as well. Furthermore, except for some old desktops being used for the secretary, all the faculty will have Laptops and Tablets. Even in your example of a computer lab, that was 200 desktops for a University size order. Let's say they even put in five orders a year like that, that's still a measly 1,000 desktops. Now let's times that by even 50 Universities (I'm grossly exaggerating the number upwards just to show you how disproportionate the market is), it is still only 50,000 desktops for the entire University system; that's barely a footnote. And as I mentioned, most businesses that I know are all moving to mobile as it offers higher productivity (allows the worker to bring home the work to continue it) for a price no higher for the most part than a desktop. And that's just today in 2012, fast forward just two years and you can imagine the niche the desktop is becoming.

I agree that mobile devices are becoming more and more popular. Hey my parents, friends all have laptops and/or Android phones or ipads etc.....

Wow, this is really bad news. I hope this doesn't ultimately become an Intel monopoly where they can rape us even more for their products than they already do.

Yeah I'd hate to even think what that would be like.

I agree that mobile devices are becoming more and more popular. Hey my parents, friends all have laptops and/or Android phones or ipads etc.....

Exactly. I just offered to donate to my friend my $110 Z68 board that had a bad BIOS flash (all it needs is a simple $10 BIOS chip) if he wanted to build an ATX desktop but he instead chose to pay more and get a laptop. Hey, I hate the fact that my desktop is going to be a dying breed after all the work I put into it, but there is no point in living in denial.

using laptop is pain over desktop tbh. i'd hate to work with a damn laptop -.- meh.... desktop for work and gaming, laptop to take with me, tablet for smaller crap like reading manga at bed and stuff but really hmm O.o sad to see amd doing so bad. hopefully they can recover >_>

Shame. But Chines are on shopping spree;)

Another article:

In 2012, the market for personal computers is due to contract by 1.2 per cent, with 349 million PC shipments due this year, down from 353 million in 2011, according to market research firm IHS iSuppli. It is the first time the PC market has been in decline since the 2001 dot-com bust. The figures were revealed just a week ahead of the launch of Microsoft's new operating system, Windows 8, which is designed to work on both computers and tablets. Analysts will be keeping a close eye on the system to monitor its impact on the beleaguered PC market. Unlike laptops and desktops, tablets have been enjoying a boom in sales. According to American research centre Pew, tablet use has risen steadily over the last year. In July 2011, only 11 per cent of American adults had a tablet. By January 2012, that figure was 18 per cent, while in August 2012, the number had risen again to 25 per cent. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/9601247/PC-market-to-shrink-for-first-time-in-a-decade.html

That's if Intel takes them on. They stand a better chance while obtaining the 'monopoly and monetary status' they currently have. If they get to broken up it doesn't leave much of a leg to stand on. Sounds like they need better higher management.

Shame to you having this abomination of an avatar.A lot of great men lost their lives from those filth you are avataring. You are a kiddo or a little minion selling himself for pennies or just a bent mind having something "cool" to show to others. Maybe it is a joke for you,but I assure you it is not,speaking from my personal experience which I will not discuss.

......can "see" how competition between graphic 'partners'...do work...

AMD products aren't getting worse.... AMD has shifted focus from "high-end" processors to budget/mainstream processors. Of course they're of little interest to enthusiasts....but they provide value to those just looking for a cheap, capable computer for web browsing, e-mail, word processing and multimedia.

Whenever they are unable to compete, they just say that they shifted their focus away from high-end. This is far from true. Their mid-range/low-end processors are large, expensive to build CPUs that should normally be the high-end models; they are labeled mainstream because they perform no better than that and they sell with little to no profit, or even at a loss. This is not an AMD strategy shift. It is just that they can't do better than that.

Shame to you having this abomination of an avatar.A lot of great men lost their lives from those filth you are avataring. You are a kiddo or a little minion selling himself for pennies or just a bent mind having something "cool" to show to others. Maybe it is a joke for you,but I assure you it is not,speaking from my personal experience which I will not discuss.

Did I miss something? Are you a religious nut or something? How the hell does my "avatar" have anything to do with this thread? Your argument is nullified and void.