I get the 7.7 significance, but July 7th should be a part of a nice, four-day holiday here in the U.S. because of the national 4th-of-July celebration. If AMD causes U.S. reviewers to spend any portion of that time foolin' with a graphics card review, instead of something more relaxing, Navi had better be the absolutely greatest graphics card in the history of personal computing. This is a potential "unforced error" on AMD's part.

I hope AMD pulls out something but I doubt they will catch up since Nvidia will also roll out 7nm parts soon. They surprised me with Ryzen I would like to see that in the GPU front now.

Celcius:

four-day holiday here in the U.S. because of the national 4th-of-July celebration.

Blah blah blah this is what they get paid to do.

icedman:

I hope AMD pulls out something but I doubt they will catch up since Nvidia will also roll out 7nm parts soon. They surprised me with Ryzen I would like to see that in the GPU front now.

If the rumours are true, this Navi release won't compete with the 2080 Ti, or 2080. More like 2070. From what I've heard its theoretical peak would approach 2080 Ti territory but it can never achieve that by the time the bugs are ironed out and the final taping version is ready, so waaaay down in 2070 territory would be more realistic. But like I said, that's all rumours, except the theoretical peak part (which can't be achieved), AMD have been pretty tight lipped. Even if it only matches the 2070, at the right price that would still be fantastic.

Celcius:

I get the 7.7 significance, but July 7th should be a part of a nice, four-day holiday here in the U.S. because of the national 4th-of-July celebration. If AMD causes U.S. reviewers to spend any portion of that time foolin' with a graphics card review, instead of something more relaxing, Navi had better be the absolutely greatest graphics card in the history of personal computing. This is a potential "unforced error" on AMD's part.

It is choice of reviewer based on his/hers free will. What you described looks like some heavy entitlement. Large portion of people in IT work on any and all national holidays. (That includes Christmas... and we are not only ones who keep engine of the world spinning...)

las:

I hope for AMDs GPU division that Navi won't fail. Sadly for AMD, Nvidia 7nm chips are lurking in the shadows and this release will bump up performance alot - After all Turing was not meant for 12nm and scaled back

Do you have at least approximation for date of that nV 7nm shrink based on some source? If not it is like saying: "Sadly, there is 5nm VIA luring in the shadows..." (completely irrelevant statement) Only thing you wrote is that nVidia will have something "new" some day in future. = = = = When we see what Navi actually is and what will come after it, we can start talking about: "Sadly for ..."

As far as it comes to AMD's graphics division I've adopted the following approach: I'll believe it when I see it. There have been so many rumors in the past of superior performance of their products, that in the end turned out not to be quite so superior after all, that I'm no longer willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Navi10 is going to be the slowest of navi line up and the top one is meant to be released in Q4, am i correct?

2080 level performance sounds nice. All I really want is something that can comfortably play games at 4K@60FPS (even without AA) and doesn't cost more than a 4K-capable console. That being said, I'd get the 2080 if it weren't so expensive.

spectatorx:

Navi10 is going to be the slowest of navi line up and the top one is meant to be released in Q4, am i correct?

Well, I don't think Navi 10 is supposed to be the slowest, it's just going to be the mainstream GPUs. But, I do get the impression there will be another GPU product released in Q4.

The latest post, yesterday (part 1 of 2), by Jim (www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mJCOSXe_zc) might help throw some more light/confusion onto the picture. In his own words though part 2 should be interesting. It does seem reasonable that Navi will be released in a few different configurations (Navi 12/10/20) to reflect end targets and that Navi 10, for example, may well peak around Nvidia's 2080. The ball's entirely in AMD's court as to competitive pricing and I'd think it would be reasonable to expect pricing on the entire range to be significantly competitive (they also need to offset hardware RTX functionality mindset), providing all goes well with production.

Hmm need to watch that but I guess it lines up with what the early rumors had on a more mid-range product to begin with which would then be the 12 and then the high end as the 10 possibly though if they've changed it up and launch that first that would be interesting to see and then I guess the 20 would be something like a refresh or respin maybe well it might not follow the Vega GPU models though they also have the onboard cards here and then it's mainly named after the number of compute units I think it was. Going to be interesting to see and hear more about this little card, new version or perhaps the last of GCN or well guess it will be clear once AMD actually unveils it later this year whatever the first one up will be targeting whether mid range or high end or how it's planned. And what NVIDIA might do but I guess they have their own lineup and plans for how that's intended to be shown or revealed and maybe they'll have variants of these existing GPU's or just price cuts on some models. We'll see. EDIT: Actually perhaps the naming has changed, 10 as the entry model this time and then adding instead of subtracting. Hmm well guess it will clear up eventually. Copyrights and being named after a star or star cluster or something so at least the marketing department aren't all doing "Hey listen!" for the reveal and whatever weird hype and media they've got planned.. https://i.imgur.com/nkdxMH8.jpg Then again they all have some outright playful sometimes outright hostile rivalry with one another. (NVIDIA's little comics about Intel made them quite angry about that too. Not sure how things are between AMD and Intel but it can't be all bad either if they have these Intel with Vega GPU's maybe.)

I’m a forever ATI/AMD user started with Rage had a great Ti4200 after but when I tried to replace it with the dismal FX5500 I promptly returned that and came home with a 9600XT, so I have been hooked ever since. Bottom line though despite that i’m a realist and am expecting nothing more than a Polaris replacement. If it performs better than that I’ll very pleased.

Fox2232:

It is choice of reviewer based on his/hers free will. What you described looks like some heavy entitlement. Large portion of people in IT work on any and all national holidays. (That includes Christmas... and we are not only ones who keep engine of the world spinning...)"

Just to clarify what I meant, AMD graphic card launches have a history of being marred by one thing or another. The Radeon VII with it's somewhat broken release driver, the deafening roar of the reference R9 290X in "Uber" mode, the Fury X and it's apparently less-than-silent liquid cooling, and the RX 480 with the controversy of the single six-pin power socket being "marginal" are a few examples. It seems like it's always AMD providing the axe-handle for their critics to use to beat them up with. I thought that when they finally ditched the blower-style cooler on the Radeon VII, it was a sign that the lunatics were no longer running the asylum at RTG. But, reportedly, the three radial fan arrangement wasn't what it should have been from an acoustic standpoint. The examples I listed above are, I believe, widespread perceptions held by the buying public. I'm certain there are any number of people who have actually owned, and used, these products that would steadfastly insist those perceptions are inaccurate. Just like the, "Radeon drivers are complete garbage" reputation that always leaves me totally mystified, as the last driver issue I can recall was when my first Radeon, a 9700 Pro, and Half-Life 2, were both all shiny and new. And, while I feel certain it's unwarranted, that perception never seems to go away. But, this isn't a thread devoted to that discussion. When you're chasing a formidable competitor not only for market share, but for mind share as well, your product launches need to be as perfect as you can possibly manage. Near flawless. A well-performing graphics card, neither loud or toasty, with a ready-to-rock Day One driver package, and plenty of stock on the shelves at a price that screams, "Add to Cart." When AMD elected to release Vega 64 quite literally on the heels of Threadripper, and over a weekend, some hardware reviewers, (people who do indeed make money, but aren't necessarily paid), were left in a rather stressed-out frame of mind. I'm hoping AMD took note of that. Maybe they are indeed drama-queens, but with as much as AMD has riding on Navi being well-received by the people performing the independent evaluations, I'm simply hoping they won't schedule their review sample delivery and subsequent embargo lift so as to tempt U.S.-based reviewers as to feeling they were deprived of time with family and friends, and to be in a cranky, bomb-throwing state of mind.

Celcius:

Just to clarify what I meant, AMD graphic card launches have a history of being marred by one thing or another. The Radeon VII with it's somewhat broken release driver, the deafening roar of the reference R9 290X in "Uber" mode, the Fury X and it's apparently less-than-silent liquid cooling, and the RX 480 with the controversy of the single six-pin power socket being "marginal" are a few examples. It seems like it's always AMD providing the axe-handle for their critics to use to beat them up with. I thought that when they finally ditched the blower-style cooler on the Radeon VII, it was a sign that the lunatics were no longer running the asylum at RTG. But, reportedly, the three radial fan arrangement wasn't what it should have been from an acoustic standpoint. The examples I listed above are, I believe, widespread perceptions held by the buying public. I'm certain there are any number of people who have actually owned, and used, these products that would steadfastly insist those perceptions are inaccurate. Just like the, "Radeon drivers are complete garbage" reputation that always leaves me totally mystified, as the last driver issue I can recall was when my first Radeon, a 9700 Pro, and Half-Life 2, were both all shiny and new. And, while I feel certain it's unwarranted, that perception never seems to go away. But, this isn't a thread devoted to that discussion. When you're chasing a formidable competitor not only for market share, but for mind share as well, your product launches need to be as perfect as you can possibly manage. Near flawless. A well-performing graphics card, neither loud or toasty, with a ready-to-rock Day One driver package, and plenty of stock on the shelves at a price that screams, "Add to Cart." When AMD elected to release Vega 64 quite literally on the heels of Threadripper, and over a weekend, some hardware reviewers, (people who do indeed make money, but aren't necessarily paid), were left in a rather stressed-out frame of mind. I'm hoping AMD took note of that. Maybe they are indeed drama-queens, but with as much as AMD has riding on Navi being well-received by the people performing the independent evaluations, I'm simply hoping they won't schedule their review sample delivery and subsequent embargo lift so as to tempt U.S.-based reviewers as to feeling they were deprived of time with family and friends, and to be in a cranky, bomb-throwing state of mind.

Man, I have no idea what people have always with Fury X. Can you explain it to me? Where did you get it from? Did you think about it at all? It is freaking 300W card which at stock is quietest and coolest high power card ever made at same time. It is 41dB (practically same as all other high power cards) under full load and has ~49°C at that time. It takes just a minute to adjust fan profile to have it ~60°C under full load and much more quieter than rest of the bunch. Hilbert himself measured Fury X idle temperature as 26°C. Maybe you can guess that it is just some 4~6°C above ambient. That's what explains idle 40dB. It did not take brain to adjust fan settings properly. My Fury X was quietest graphics card I ever had (that had actually active cooling). And since I run multiple high refresh rate screens, graphic cards run in higher power states even at idle... This means no zero fan is possible no matter what GPU I would buy. That old system w/ Fury X run NH-D14 on CPU and at idle, it was inaudible. (Which can't be said about my new system where Pump on CPU can be heard as well as fans on GPU.) = = = = And as for Navi release. We have all baseline bits of information for years directly from AMD. And those really important came again from AMD in last 6 months. Mere fact that Navi was not released yet is proof that AMD takes it more seriously than ever. (+There is that thing they are waiting for.)

Celcius:

I get the 7.7 significance, but July 7th should be a part of a nice, four-day holiday here in the U.S. because of the national 4th-of-July celebration. If AMD causes U.S. reviewers to spend any portion of that time foolin' with a graphics card review, instead of something more relaxing, Navi had better be the absolutely greatest graphics card in the history of personal computing. This is a potential "unforced error" on AMD's part.

By that logic mught not get any work for 13th days, Saturdays, 9/11s, Chinesse new years, the 2 new years of the hebrew religiion, some of the muslim important days, México independence day as well, and mother´s day and women´s days so we do not get attacked for not being inclusive and sorts... do we continue? NONSENSE, Let them do w/e they want in the date they decide pretty sure they know better why they chose that date.

Fox2232:

Man, I have no idea what people have always with Fury X. Can you explain it to me? Where did you get it from? Did you think about it at all?

If you're directing your post at me, (which is fine), no, I can't explain it. Would that I could. Please note that I clearly stated that there are undoubtedly people who would dispute the commonly-held perceptions some people have about these products. I certainly never meant to imply they were my perceptions, and, in my own way, I share your frustration. I do recall there was more than just a little Sturm und Drang with what were perceived as faulty Cooler Master pumps and also with coil whine with the Fury X. Was that true? Was it widespread? Well, I don't know; I've never been in the same room as a Fury X. But, at least for awhile after launch, those alleged shortcomings were held as factual, quite probably by other people who hadn't been in the same room as one. And, therein lies the problem. As an actual owner and user, I'm certainly more-than-willing to accept your experience as representative of that product. I recall thinking, "Wow! A 4096-bit memory bus and 512 GB/s of bandwidth! What's not to like?" Deserved or not, bad reputations are, unfortunately, something that Radeon cards seem to gain quite easily, and lose at only an agonizingly slow pace. They just endure. Which is why I'd like absolutely no reason for reviewer to look at any possible Navi issue as the glass being half-empty, rather than half-full, simply due to a poor choice of launch date.

Celcius:

I get the 7.7 significance, but July 7th should be a part of a nice, four-day holiday here in the U.S. because of the national 4th-of-July celebration. If AMD causes U.S. reviewers to spend any portion of that time foolin' with a graphics card review, instead of something more relaxing, Navi had better be the absolutely greatest graphics card in the history of personal computing. This is a potential "unforced error" on AMD's part.

So just because they release on a holiday means that if its lacking in performance this means that a reviewer will give it a bad review because its a waste of their time? If ANY reviewer knowingly gives a bad review just because its not insanely impressive or it doesn't beat a GTX2080Ti by 50% dont deserve to be reviewers! Its their job, they chose it, they should always be professional and truthful.

Celcius:

If you're directing your post at me, (which is fine), no, I can't explain it. Would that I could. Please note that I clearly stated that there are undoubtedly people who would dispute the commonly-held perceptions some people have about these products. I certainly never meant to imply they were my perceptions, and, in my own way, I share your frustration. I do recall there was more than just a little Sturm und Drang with what were perceived as faulty Cooler Master pumps and also with coil whine with the Fury X. Was that true? Was it widespread? Well, I don't know; I've never been in the same room as a Fury X. But, at least for awhile after launch, those alleged shortcomings were held as factual, quite probably by other people who hadn't been in the same room as one. And, therein lies the problem. As an actual owner and user, I'm certainly more-than-willing to accept your experience as representative of that product. I recall thinking, "Wow! A 4096-bit memory bus and 512 GB/s of bandwidth! What's not to like?" Deserved or not, bad reputations are, unfortunately, something that Radeon cards seem to gain quite easily, and lose at only an agonizingly slow pace. They just endure. Which is why I'd like absolutely no reason for reviewer to look at any possible Navi issue as the glass being half-empty, rather than half-full, simply due to a poor choice of launch date.

Fury X Review Samples had that coil whine quite often and it was present in some cards from 1st batch. My card was one of 1st cards sold and is ticking just fine even today w/o coil whine. Those who did send their card for RMA due to this got new card and AMD gave no troubles to them. As for memory bandwidth, It still was not sufficient and OC + Timings improved performance of card quite well. (Till AMD disabled OC in one of drivers and only timings tweaks remained active.) As for bad reputation. Even nVidia's cards tend to get bad rep. time to time, but people tend to forget it. Over years it became popular to bash on ATi's drivers. And that sentiment remained around even today when it is baseless. I sometimes looked into nV driver threads. And seeing comments like: "Good driver, does not give me BSODs like last one did." Told me everything I needed to know about differences in between AMD's and nVidia's drivers. AMD is sometimes bit slow on optimizations for particular new games, but I can't say that I ever had driver in AMD era which would give me BSODs. (In between 2012Q1 and 2015Q2, I installed every single beta driver and I used to test few games and compute things just to see performance changes w/ HD7970. Then With Fury X, I installed quite more than available drivers => modified at beginning as performance was pretty random back then. And bit fewer drivers once performance stabilized. Now I install like every 2nd beta driver as I do not play that many new games.) As people like to throw rocks, they will. You can see it even in this thread as some already "know" that Navi is going to be poor performer and borderline obsolete upon launch. But I can tell you that sites are quite often losing population over them being dishonest. And if some behave badly as you hinted possibility, it is their loss.

las:

I hope for AMDs GPU division that Navi won't fail. Sadly for AMD, Nvidia 7nm chips are lurking in the shadows and this release will bump up performance alot - After all Turing was not meant for 12nm and scaled back

I doubt they beat the 2080 but the RTX 2070 and RTX 2060 should not be too hard to beat. They are way too expensive for what they are and are mostly not powerful enough for ray tracing moving forward. If AMD can come up with something equivalent and with a more realistic price they'll have a winner. I've been a nVidia owner for a long while but i'm really looking forward to Navi. Just got a 2k 144Hz monitor and the 1070 lack a little bit of power. Not a lot but i've been looking to upgrade it since December but the price of the 2070 in Canada was simply ridiculous at launch. It has come down lately (around 700-720$ for dual fan version) but i'll wait Navi now since nVidia pissed me off too much with the RTX launch. If AMD can come up with something as good as the 2070 for less money i'll bite.

Celcius:

Maybe they are indeed drama-queens, but with as much as AMD has riding on Navi being well-received by the people performing the independent evaluations, I'm simply hoping they won't schedule their review sample delivery and subsequent embargo lift so as to tempt U.S.-based reviewers as to feeling they were deprived of time with family and friends, and to be in a cranky, bomb-throwing state of mind.

They can simply keep enjoying their family time and BBQ. There will always be loner reviewers who are eager to test brand new hardware any day of the year. And there are also the myriad non-American reviewers. They will take care of it. Once their vacation is over, the rest of the American reviewers can then release their reviews a few days late.

My hope is Navi is a huge success then Intel's dGPU is a huge success in 2020. Nothing against Nvidia other than they have no real competition and the GPU market has stagnated.