Aura89:

@nosirrahx you realize it's entirely possible Intel forced AMD into all the issues you are apparently having? AMD circumvented Intel, when it was Intels responsibility. Do you really think Intel appreciated that? All that did was make Intel look bad.

Honestly, I don't care which company screwed who. In the end its the users that needs drives that are being deliberately hidden. As it stands right now, Intel is providing a doc that leads to AMD's driver page and AMD is telling those same users "sorry chump, that hardware does not exist", even though AMD could easily link to the drivers on their own site. No matter where the bad decisions started, it is AMD that is making the final bad decision at the moment. Literally the only thing AMD has to do here to fix this is to point to this link on their own site: https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/release-notes/rn-rad-win-20-2-1

Most likely it is a business decision with legality, responsibility and maintenance cost involved which AMD does not want to get involved with anymore. The iGPU is sold to intel and it is intel's responsibility to support the product, and if intel require support from AMD they should sign contract with AMD to support these products. The real business world does not work like this, it is not as simple as adding the device id back to the driver, every bug reported on these devices are lost maintenance revenue that AMD are not paid for. Each support AMD provided to these iGPU is additional cost and effort (for compatibility that they did not sign up for) to AMD. AMD is a business company not a charity and should not work on something they are not obligated to supported.

nosirrahx:

Honestly, I don't care which company screwed who. In the end its the users that needs drives that are being deliberately hidden.

You really should, as legally binding agreements, are, well, legally binding.

nosirrahx:

Honestly, I don't care which company screwed who. In the end its the users that needs drives that are being deliberately hidden. As it stands right now, Intel is providing a doc that leads to AMD's driver page and AMD is telling those same users "sorry chump, that hardware does not exist", even though AMD could easily link to the drivers on their own site. No matter where the bad decisions started, it is AMD that is making the final bad decision at the moment. Literally the only thing AMD has to do here to fix this is to point to this link on their own site: https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/release-notes/rn-rad-win-20-2-1

Intel said is their responsibility to provide drivers. THE END. If they do not do so, blame Intel. If AMD hadn't come to the rescue in March, nobody would be saying anything against AMD today like you do. You ignore the facts trying to blame AMD somehow. This leads to Derangement Syndrome you know.

I don´w know who´s to blame, i only know that is sucks to treat customers like this. We should be treated with more respect and i hope the owners of such systems sue the company responsible for this mess.

nosirrahx:

Since it is unlikely that AMD and Intel will care enough to help anyone out here, this should be the latest driver that supports these GPUs: https://www.guru3d.com/files-details/amd-radeon-adrenalin-edition-20-2-1-driver-download.html I have these installed on my NUC8i7HVK, specifically 26.20.15019.1003 (mentioned in the notes on the link above).

20.4.1 is the last one

Fediuld:

Intel said would support the CPU/GPU with drivers for 5 years. https://slashdot.org/story/19/10/09/142229/intel-kills-kaby-lake-g-vows-to-offer-drivers-for-five-years However for 14 months after the chip went on sale, Intel hadn't produced any driver update. AMD stepped in and started producing drivers for the GPU part of the CPU. This was just news 2 1/2 months ago and everyone cheered. https://www.notebookcheck.net/After-a-year-long-wait-Kaby-Lake-G-finally-gets-a-driver-update-from-AMD.459403.0.html https://wccftech.com/amd-delivers-intels-kaby-lake-g-driver-update-stuck-in-limbo-for-14-months/ So Intel actually is responsible for providing drivers for this IGP (is not discreet GPU) not AMD according to their contract.

Intel NEVER produced a driver for Vega M, how could they, AMD didn't share the source code with them. In begining Intel was paying AMD to re-skin the driver from Red to Blue, and after two years that stopped.

H83:

I don´w know who´s to blame, i only know that is sucks to treat customers like this. We should be treated with more respect and i hope the owners of such systems sue the company responsible for this mess.

In the end its AMD, they removed entries from inf file out of spite. Intel can't produce driver for Vega as they don't have source code, in same as HP can't make Nvidia drivers, or Dell can't make Intel drivers.. can you imagine if nvidia would do that? if out of sudden they would remove support for some 1660s for example because they where installed in AMD based system by HP?

nosirrahx:

Taking a look at the drivers signed in early 2018 you can see multiple instances of ati2mtag_VegaMDS, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_694. Looking at the current drivers you can see multiple instances of 'Vega' but all references to VEN_1002&DEV_69 have been edited out. I would be willing to bet that nothing more than editing 2 inf files would restore complete compatibility. EDIT TO ADD: I actually had to do this once when I was building my ultra high end retro XP gaming system. The GPU I wanted to use (980) had complete compatibility with XP but the decision was made to drop official support. An .ini file edit restored functionality.

problem with editing inf file you use driver signature and with 64bit windows 10, that is a bitch to deal with.

Fediuld:

Intel said would support the CPU/GPU with drivers for 5 years. https://slashdot.org/story/19/10/09/142229/intel-kills-kaby-lake-g-vows-to-offer-drivers-for-five-years However for 14 months after the chip went on sale, Intel hadn't produced any driver update. AMD stepped in and started producing drivers for the GPU part of the CPU. This was just news 2 1/2 months ago and everyone cheered. https://www.notebookcheck.net/After-a-year-long-wait-Kaby-Lake-G-finally-gets-a-driver-update-from-AMD.459403.0.html https://wccftech.com/amd-delivers-intels-kaby-lake-g-driver-update-stuck-in-limbo-for-14-months/ So Intel actually is responsible for providing drivers for this IGP (is not discreet GPU) not AMD according to their contract.

so there was more to it then , well if thats the case ... so intel is in the wrong here

Venix:

so there was more to it then , well if thats the case ... so intel is in the wrong here

AMD threw the last stone and threw it at the user. AMD can fix the entire situation right now by linking the drivers hosted on their own site. Instead AMD has chosen to deliberately delist the IGPUs in question and deliberately removed detection for them in their identification tool. I am an AMD fan for you can't be a real fan if you refuse to call out BS when you see it.

nekrosoft13:

20.4.1 is the last one

Going to test now to confirm compatibility.

Fediuld:

Intel said is their responsibility to provide drivers. THE END. If they do not do so, blame Intel. If AMD hadn't come to the rescue in March, nobody would be saying anything against AMD today like you do. You ignore the facts trying to blame AMD somehow. This leads to Derangement Syndrome you know.

AMD hosts the drivers that are compatible and deliberately withholds them, period. You can talk about all of the steps that led up to this if you want, the final step was AMD's and AMD's alone. Unless you have some evidence that Intel forced AMD into removing the IGPUs in question from both the product selector (and the download page) and from their detection tool, the final choice was AMD's alone. Imagine you take your car in to get fixed and the dealer has the parts you need but lies and says that they don't have them because some deal they made with someone else went south. You are literally defending this kind of behavior.

Fediuld:

Not GPU per se, but AMD IGP 🙂 See my post above.

none the less when I first heard about that I way back when I thought it was joke or some pr stunt both intel and amd went threw with it? know full well what was going on? well amd might of not been been making intel sweet bullets then then but still. everyone saw what was come with the release of ryzen. and and with each new release amd been puting more heat on intel. regardless if it was amd gpu or amd igpu it was amd

nekrosoft13:

20.4.1 is the last one

Confirmed, these are compatible, thanks. Kind of sucks that there is literally no way to tell any of this given that AMD had delisted the IGPUs.

tsunami231:

none the less when I first heard about that I way back when I thought it was joke or some pr stunt they both intel and amd went threw with it? know full well what was going on? well amd might of not been been making intel sweet bullets then then but still. everyone saw it come with the release of ryzen

Oh it was a massively stupid idea from the beginning. That said, they did it anyway and left a lot of people that spent a lot of $ with crappy support. Looking at the last driver I pulled from Intel's site the package is far smaller than the ones provided by AMD. It looks like what Intel was supposed to be doing was to take the full package and extract the required files for just the 2 IGPUs. Without question Intel dropped the ball on that and never bothered. That said, AMD does have drivers for these 2 IGPUs on their site. They can't actually even remove them since they are complete packages for all supported GPUs. Anyone on AMD's side here is free to explain why it is OK for AMD to lie about: A. claiming that these IGPUs do not exist (through their product listing on the drivers page) B. claiming that they do not host drivers for these IGPUs (through their detection tool) These are both demonstrably untrue claims. Obviously the IGPUs exist and AMD themselves hosts the drivers. No matter what happened between Intel and AMD, how is this the consumer's fault? This isn't punishing Intel.

Venix:

so there was more to it then , well if thats the case ... so intel is in the wrong here

nope, Intel does not have source code to write drivers for AMD product. that like asking Realtek to make a driver for Creative card or Nvidia to write a driver for Intel onboard graphics.

Just found a 3rd place AMD is lying. In the AMD control panel if you check for updates while older drivers are installed, AMD will tell you that your drivers are up to date when they are not. I just confirmed this on my NUC8i7HVK with 20.2.1 installed. AMD reports that these are up to date when 20.4.1 are the latest drivers.

nosirrahx:

Oh it was a massively stupid idea from the beginning. That said, they did it anyway and left a lot of people that spent a lot of $ with crappy support. Looking at the last driver I pulled from Intel's site the package is far smaller than the ones provided by AMD. It looks like what Intel was supposed to be doing was to take the full package and extract the required files for just the 2 IGPUs. Without question Intel dropped the ball on that and never bothered. That said, AMD does have drivers for these 2 IGPUs on their site. They can't actually even remove them since they are complete packages for all supported GPUs. Anyone on AMD's side here is free to explain why it is OK for AMD to lie about: A. claiming that these IGPUs do not exist (through their product listing on the drivers page) B. claiming that they do not host drivers for these IGPUs (through their detection tool) These are both demonstrably untrue claims. Obviously the IGPUs exist and AMD themselves hosts the drivers. No matter what happened between Intel and AMD, how is this the consumer's fault? This isn't punishing Intel.

Intel can't extract shit from the driver, drivers is signed by AMD, drivers were always made by AMD. Intel can't make the driver without source code, and even if Intel under some magical circumstance had the source code, Intel can't sign the driver with AMD signature.

nekrosoft13:

nope, Intel does not have source code to write drivers for AMD product.

Correct, it appears that Intel's job was to take AMD's complete driver package and host a reduced package containing drivers only for the 2 IGPUs in question. The sad part is that Intel could have literally just copied the entire package because the hardware would use only what it needs. I hope people understand that I am not exonerating Intel. I kind of hate Intel to be honest, they have botched quite a few things recently and their support is abysmal. That said, AMD is screwing users of these IGPUs intentionally and they are gaining nothing in the process. This is literally how little work AMD need to do: User : "Hey AMD, I have a RX Vega M GL/RX Vega M GH, can I have some drivers?" AMD : "Sure, here you go https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/release-notes/rn-rad-win-20-4-1" Instead you get: AMD : "That IGPU does not exist"

Can you guys learn how to use the multi quote option and stop flooding the forum? kthnx

nosirrahx:

That said, AMD is screwing users of these IGPUs intentionally and they are gaining nothing in the process.

Again you literally have zero understanding of the legal requirements from either company are. Stop pretending that you do.

nekrosoft13:

Intel can't extract crap from the driver, drivers is signed by AMD, drivers were always made by AMD. Intel can't make the driver without source code, and even if Intel under some magical circumstance had the source code, Intel can't sign the driver with AMD signature.

Intel could not produce the driver but they should be paying AMD to provide the driver which they did not and AMD should not provide any support at all for these product due to legal and business reasons. The owner of these iGPU is not AMD customer, intel is the customer of AMD and the owner is a customer of intel. For example, if you bought a mobile phone and there is a problem with the SoC, you dont contact the SoC manufacturer for support, you contact the mobile phone manufacturer. same applies here, all drivers provided by AMD out of the contracted terms are not obligated.

chanw4:

Intel could not produce the driver but they should be paying AMD to provide the driver which they did not and AMD should not provide any support at all for these product due to legal and business reasons. The owner of these iGPU is not AMD customer, intel is the customer of AMD and the owner is a customer of intel. For example, if you bought a mobile phone and there is a problem with the SoC, you dont contact the SoC manufacturer for support, you contact the mobile phone manufacturer. same applies here, all drivers provided by AMD out of the contracted terms are not obligated.

Why bother to explain to those who riding the AMD Derangement Syndrome bandwagon? I even posted Intel's own statement and they do not accept Intel's own words that is their responsibility to support the CPU/IGP with drivers. https://www.pcworld.com/article/3444897/intel-kills-kaby-lake-g-vows-to-offer-drivers-for-five-years.html https://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/james-dawson/intel-to-discontinue-amd-collaboration-kaby-lake-g-in-2020/

nekrosoft13:

Intel NEVER produced a driver for Vega M, how could they, AMD didn't share the source code with them. In begining Intel was paying AMD to re-skin the driver from Red to Blue, and after two years that stopped.

nosirrahx:

AMD hosts the drivers that are compatible and deliberately withholds them, period.

Have you seen this? Or you are ignoring the fact that Intel has posted drivers for this IGP? https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/28432/Radeon-RX-Vega-M-Graphics Again Intel vowed to support those CPUs back in October when announced they become EOL https://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/james-dawson/intel-to-discontinue-amd-collaboration-kaby-lake-g-in-2020/ https://www.notebookcheck.net/To-all-Dell-XPS-15-9575-and-Kaby-Lake-G-owners-You-re-fine-Intel-will-continue-to-support-the-platform-for-another-few-years.437690.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Updated-Intel-Kaby-Lake-G-family-goes-the-way-of-the-dodo.436817.0.html Or you call Intel liars? Also barely that many were sold also https://www.notebookcheck.net/Where-are-all-the-Kaby-Lake-G-laptops-Nvidia-s-GeForce-Partner-Program-may-be-to-blame.300748.0.html

if intel isn't willing to pay for additional support for their custom gpu, and the contract expired(2years so it seems likely), it isn't amd's problem. Intel has a very poor track record for updating drivers on windows so this is really no surprise Further more intel could write their own drivers as full documentation is available and opensource drivers exist for all current amd gpu products Including this custom polaris derivative gpu.

Fediuld:

Have you seen this? Or you are ignoring the fact that Intel has posted drivers for this IGP? https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/28432/Radeon-RX-Vega-M-Graphics

Not only did I see it, I also read the date on those drivers, which are obsolete compared to the drivers hosted on AMD's site but intentionally hidden from users.

Again Intel vowed to support those CPUs back in October when announced they become EOL https://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/james-dawson/intel-to-discontinue-amd-collaboration-kaby-lake-g-in-2020/ https://www.notebookcheck.net/To-all-Dell-XPS-15-9575-and-Kaby-Lake-G-owners-You-re-fine-Intel-will-continue-to-support-the-platform-for-another-few-years.437690.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Updated-Intel-Kaby-Lake-G-family-goes-the-way-of-the-dodo.436817.0.html Or you call Intel liars?

Intel provided abysmal support as they always do, I am not an Intel fan and when they pull stuff like this, I am not surprised. Which brings me back to why I am pissed at AMD, I expect them to be better than to delist hardware and hide drivers intentionally out of spite. I don't comment a lot on this site but I am around enough to know that this places suffers the same problems a lot of tech forums do. People forget that being a "fan" means that you have to call out BS when you see it, even if you like the company pulling the BS. Back to what I posted before, this entire situation boils down to this: User : "Hey AMD, I have a RX Vega M GL/RX Vega M GH, can I have some drivers?" At this point, AMD has 2 choices: 1. AMD : "Sure, here you go https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/release-notes/rn-rad-win-20-4-1" or 2. AMD : "That IGPU does not exist and there are no drivers" AMD does not need to do any actual work to provide #1 as their answer. The drivers are already on their site, all they need to do is to point at them. Don't let being and AMD fan lead to mental gymnastics that allow #2 to be an acceptable answer. Let me also state for the record, Intel can also decide to provide actual support here and link the drivers I posted above in both their support docs and automated driver assist tool. Intel tried to take the lazy way out and linked to AMD through a support PDF: https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/28600/Radeon-RX-Vega-M-Graphics-Driver-for-Windows-10-64-bit-for-NUC8i7HNK-NUC8i7HVK?product=126143 This is where the mess started. AMD saw this and and delisted the IGPUs effectively nullifying Intel's support doc. This is also where I stopped taking AMD's side on this. Sure Intel pulled some BS, but AMD's counter attacks consumers, not Intel.

user1:

if intel isn't willing to pay for additional support for their custom gpu, and the contract expired(2years so it seems likely), it isn't amd's problem. Intel has a very poor track record for updating drivers on windows so this is really no surprise Further more intel could write their own drivers as full documentation is available and opensource drivers exist for all current amd gpu products Including this custom polaris derivative gpu.

That all distracts from the actual current state of affairs though. AMD has drivers hosted on their site. AMD claims that they don't and that these IGPUs do not exist. https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/release-notes/rn-rad-win-20-4-1 AMD literally has to point to their own site and the entire situation goes away. Intel's support looks like crap and AMD proves that they care more about you than they do getting back at Intel.

chanw4:

Intel could not produce the driver but they should be paying AMD to provide the driver which they did not and AMD should not provide any support at all for these product due to legal and business reasons. The owner of these iGPU is not AMD customer, intel is the customer of AMD and the owner is a customer of intel. For example, if you bought a mobile phone and there is a problem with the SoC, you dont contact the SoC manufacturer for support, you contact the mobile phone manufacturer. same applies here, all drivers provided by AMD out of the contracted terms are not obligated.

not that simple When you buy any given PC, there are components from Intel and or AMD, Realtek, Nvidia, qualcom, asmedia, etc.... I don't have to go to HP or Dell, or Lenovo website to get a new driver, as those companies almost never update their website to actually provide up to date drivers past release time. Since early/mid 2000s most companies started doing unified driver pacakges, If I want an updated driver for my HP, Dell etc... I go to Realtek site, I go to Nvidia and so on. when I bought my lenovo laptop with build in nvidia GPU, i'm not a direct nvidia customer, but I can still go to nvidia.com and get a driver. nvidia doesn't say screw off you didn't buy it from us, so go fish.

nosirrahx:

That all distracts from the actual current state of affairs though. AMD has drivers hosted on their site. AMD claims that they don't and that these IGPUs do not exist. https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/release-notes/rn-rad-win-20-4-1 AMD literally has to point to their own site and the entire situation goes away. Intel's support looks like crap and AMD proves that they care more about you than they do getting back at Intel.

while that would be helpful, it doesn't fix the the situation. As with any graphic display product, you need constant support, a single driver with no future doesn't fix issue. If the Hades Canyon won't get any more updates then its a dead product, time to ditch it.