AMD has two problems: - their current architecture is already stretched to max proven by high power consumption, heat and low overclocking margins so they need something revolutionary and this create the second problem: - they don't have the R&D power of Nvidia I also consider a lack of business efficiency the idea that " we need more to bla bla bla" - no, you need to launch before competition and gather experience from buyers, optimizing product and driver - this is how you get an edge on competition and you can do that only in a live market and not with beta testers in a closed circle - Nvidia did that and they now know what to fix - yes, it's questionable non ethic tactics but it works for them even if nobody wants to be beta tester for a new technology on their hard earned money. Yeah, it's coming... https://i.imgur.com/JbMmtu6.jpg

499€ 599€ 699€ What i need is that 599€ part do 120FPS on 1440p HDR 😛 Rest is just another Hype train, but please do not overhype it. Give Us 5700XT Performance w/ + 50-70% and i will be happy.

This is going to be my upgrade as long as the RT performance is decent. No point in upgrading right now, even though 5700 XT is better than my Vega 56. Wonder if they'll use HBM on these - would make sense for power budget reasons and higher bandwidth could also help with RT. Does anyone know the current price of HBM2 and if it changed from last few years? I tried to Google but couldn't find anything.

Vananovion:

This is going to be my upgrade as long as the RT performance is decent. No point in upgrading right now, even though 5700 XT is better than my Vega 56. Wonder if they'll use HBM on these - would make sense for power budget reasons and higher bandwidth could also help with RT. Does anyone know the current price of HBM2 and if it changed from last few years? I tried to Google but couldn't find anything.

There are rummors its gonna use hbm2e and 16gb per stack. That kinda bandwidth would finally run that 4k resolutions and rt.

Interesting nvidia didn't make Ray tracing somebody else did all the work look at the Patton lol AMD shouldn't have a problem and I'm not a fanboy of neither of them

cryohellinc:

Individual manufacturer related, not the actual GPU. Honestly - haven't had that once, and I mostly play old games. Can be a plethora of things which are unrelated to the GPU. What makes you think GPU was the cause?

Well it's sapphire, it's a Pulse, which was supposed to be a pretty solid card actually, surely not top quality, but mid-high level card. Also i'm not even sure it's Sapphire's fault, since iirc at least one of those it's the same bios the reference, also, wasn't sapphire the one which manufactured AMD reference cards too? And again, AMD and Sapphire should work more closely to make these dealbreaking bugs not even reach a single card when they launch, and it's been months now, my friend bought that card around mid december, ~10 days of testing didn't get us closer to get a card that just works normally, like nvidia (and their partners), usually does, despite these could be problems related to their AIB partners, i never had similar problems with my nvidia cards, and i don't honestly know a single person to whom a nvidia card caused problems even remotely similar to these, and i built pretty much each one of their system personally. Anyway i realize i might've started the OT, it's just a rant because i honestly thought i could trust AMD and their cards again, and i was let down again. /OT

oxidized:

Problems with fanstop which cannot be disabled in one bios, and with the other you need to load the profile manually otherwise the fan will work with the default one, videogames crashing to desktop, and once or twice he Bsod. Don't act like there's never anything wrong with AMD, because when it comes to videocards there's often something wrong, And this ain't an isolated thing, like i said visit AMD community support forum, and AMD's reddit section, there's plenty of these problems, especially drivers as of now.

You say that as though Nvidia is immune to such issues too...

schmidtbag:

You say that as though Nvidia is immune to such issues too...

Nobody is immune to issues, but problems with nvidia are much harder to incur in compared to AMD cards, and that comes from firsthand experience and i had at least twice the times nvidia cards in my PCs compared to AMD/ATi, so it would be easier for nvidia to give me more troubles statistically, which never happened.

In my experience neither team is perfect. There are always some issues affecting some people, like ctd or driver crashes in some games, stuck clocks or whatever and they happen for both teams. Just a few months ago I switched from NVIDIA to AMD and I can't say I have any serious issues, had a visual bug in one game, which was resolved with a patch and had a video driver crash once. Overall similar experience to NVIDIA. Although if I were to look at forums or reddit, i would be able to produce pages after pages of people having issues, which are often not even caused by graphic card. Same applies for NVIDIA. As for the article, I personally do not really care about ray tracing in the games, I think it's too early and I would prefer better rasterization performance. Although I guess that it will still happen due to consoles wanting to do ray tracing. Maybe that will be what really pushes ray tracing in the games on larger scale, we'll see.

Compete away I say.... Make these prices come back to a feasible standard for us consumers PLEASE... Competition is one of if not the most major ticket item when regarding price points. I mean look at what AMD has done with the CPU market. Wholly BATMAN there!! GIMME...GIMME...… GIMME....!.!.!.!

We need Radeon cards to exist in order to buy cheaper GeForce cards. Sad but true. Just competing with Nvidia (and still losing) is not enough. They need to win thoroughly and massively, like they are doing now in CPU space, otherwise prices for GPUs will continue to creep up to the point where everyone but the "1%" will only afford mid-low-end cards (x500 class)

wavetrex:

We need Radeon cards to exist in order to buy cheaper GeForce cards. Sad but true. Just competing with Nvidia (and still losing) is not enough. They need to win thoroughly and massively, like they are doing now in CPU space, otherwise prices for GPUs will continue to creep up to the point where everyone but the "1%" will only afford mid-low-end cards (x500 class)

This is such a narrow-minded take. Would you seriously buy say a 2080ti at $1000 instead of a (for example sake) 5900xt at $750 but is even performance in DX11 and 15-20% faster in DX12/Vulcan?

Loophole35:

This is such a narrow-minded take. Would you seriously buy say a 2080ti at $1000 instead of a (for example sake) 5900xt at $750 but is even performance in DX11 and 15-20% faster in DX12/Vulcan?

He literally said he would and then complain how expensive gpus are. Crazy mind set, right?

I believe when I see it. AMD has been saying since 2018 that it will compete seriously in the high-end, but it´s 2020 and we continue with promises and rumors only. Of course, more powerful cards are coming from AMD, but the same goes for Nvidia. One of AMD's problems is timing, these cards are needed for yesterday. Turing is from 2018, by the time AMD has something to compete with 2080, 2080 Super and 2080Ti, Nvidia is probably about to launch the new generation, getting everything back to how it was before. Unless something abnormal happens, it seems that Nvidia will continue to have free reign to dictate the prices it wants.

Don't be afraid. As I said on another thread, xbox series x could easily dominate and destroy rtx 2080ti if implement correctly the advantages of consoles ecosystem. 8K capable. RTX 2080ti isn't. If a correct PC card is released even in 2020 as a refresh and no as upgraded in 2021, they can easily answer and fight nvidia. All that matters is timing. Will they succeed to make money finally?

Good grief, the smell of competitor-paid nonsensical forum disruptors is strong, and that's damn sad - though, to be expected (waay too cheap and easy to set up). For the rest of us, we NEED competition - remember what Intel very deliberately did with their 0.1% improvement, iteration over iteration, while continually raising that price bar to shocking levels. Do we place Ngreedia into this bracket too? - of course. AMD have done us all well with Zen2 proving so positively disruptive. 3990X too expensive? - please tell us all how much Intel's closest equivalent costs? What's that number 1 rule that governs the majority of PC component purchases?...you've guessed it - Price-to-Performance. Tell us all - did Ngreedia break that rule with their RTX series?? Well - and of course, I'm speaking to a, perhaps, dwindling sane majority - let's hope rDNA2 delivers similarly disruptive competition across the board. Unfortunately, an equally big concern with Ngreedia raising that price bar is that any competitor is highly unlikely to return it bar to where it should be. AMD will, I'd like to think, retain that aggressive pricing. They may now have the necessary profits/headroom to allow that kind of risk. Let's hope they do.

cryohellinc:

Individual manufacturer related, not the actual GPU. Honestly - haven't had that once, and I mostly play old games. Can be a plethora of things which are unrelated to the GPU. What makes you think GPU was the cause? Haven't had that once. Manufacturer BIOS related most likely. Only thing I've personally had was Metal Gear Ground Zeroes ( I think that's the name of the game), where GPU fan would stay idle in the menu, meanwhile GPU temp would go up and up all the way to 78c with fans not spinning at all (my profile), once you get to the actual game they will work normally. Haven't had a single game not working. Which titles are we talking about? Use Afterburner. All of those issues are related to the PSU. Example - friend got a Corsair 850w platinum PSU, in a single rail mode that PSU from 1 cable would cause the above mentioned issues. Solution - enable dual rail mode or use two cables. Forums were full of similar cases.

Single rail vs multiple 12v rails shouldn't matter. Back in September when I built the PC and couldn't use it because of the 19.9.x drivers, this was suggested. So I connected the GPU to a dedicated EVGA G2 Supernova 850W and the rest of the components to a Corsair RM750x. I connected two separate PCI-e cables to it. It was black screening and freezing the system like there was no tomorrow. Had to use the 19.7.5 drivers and then upgraded to 19.10.2 and 19.11.x drivers worked fine as well. Now I am on 19.12.1 with the core and memory overclocked using 'just' the Corsair RM750x with a single PCI-e cable and works perfectly fine. On the other hand with the 19.12.2/3 drivers, the issue has reappeared. Not as bad as the 19.9.x drivers were. Those were a nightmare. With 19.9.2, it would happen within 10 minutes of a cold boot while idling. When the new driver releases I will upgrade and if it reoccurs I will enable logging of the voltages and clock speeds and see if the driver is messing something up.

kings:

I believe when I see it. AMD has been saying since 2018 that it will compete seriously in the high-end, but it´s 2020 and we continue with promises and rumors only. Of course, more powerful cards are coming from AMD, but the same goes for Nvidia. One of AMD's problems is timing, these cards are needed for yesterday. Turing is from 2018, by the time AMD has something to compete with 2080, 2080 Super and 2080Ti, Nvidia is probably about to launch the new generation, getting everything back to how it was before. Unless something abnormal happens, it seems that Nvidia will continue to have free reign to dictate the prices it wants.

Timing is definitely one of AMD's biggest issues. The performance of there stacks they compete in are more than fine. They need to try and bring some sort of parity to there release schedule.

There are rumors of Navi 21 and Navi23. Not sure which will be shown but from what I remember this Navi21 is not the tauted Nvidia killer it's the other chip (whatever they decide to call it Navi23?). The rumors seem correct though that this new chip would be double the size of navi. Said way back a few months. Which so far is what is said about it now. Now will it have hardware ded. ray tracing or will it all be pure gaming is yet to be revealed. However, I'm willing to believe the later as rumor has it AMD is looking for a more hybrid approach to raytrace and to only raytrace where it make sense to do so. Instead of Nvidia brute force approach were everything is RT'd making the image look silly. Now if this Navi21 is actually competitive you can forget any consumer savings they will charge what the market will bare for it. I would expect between $699 to $799 for the 5800XT and between $599 to $699 for the 5800 MSRP (placeholder on names). If it gets close to the 2080ti. If it actually beats a 2080ti then I would expect north of $899. Everything is lining up for Radeon right now: -New driver GUI with fixes on the way -New lineup of FreeSync branded monitors placing Gysnc comptable back on the menu. -Ryzen bringing strong brand loyalty back to consumers for a ecocentric PC computing experience with AMD CPU and GPUs. -Strong presence in next gen consoles where porting games is rumored to be via powershell allowing better optimization for AMD ecosystems right off the bat (rumored). Everything is starting to shape up for AMD right now. If the other rumor holds true this will be the 1st time that consoles would distrupt PC gaming in it's life time! Having to upgrade your PC to keep up with console games. That would be a major shake to the PC market. Think about it, you will need a 8 core cpu at min. in order to play console ports because that is how the game is coded on console, for example. PCIe 4.0 becomes a standard and not an option. Etc. very disruptive to say the least. Some will have to decide if they will upgrade their PC or just get a console this go around. And a major part of the decision is going AMD.

Eastcoasthandle:

There are rumors of Navi 21 and Navi23. Not sure which will be shown but from what I remember this Navi21 is not the tauted Nvidia killer it's the other chip (whatever they decide to call it Navi23?). The rumors seem correct though that this new chip would be double the size of navi. Said way back a few months. Which so far is what is said about it now. Now will it have hardware ded. ray tracing or will it all be pure gaming is yet to be revealed. However, I'm willing to believe the later as rumor has it AMD is looking for a more hybrid approach to raytrace and to only raytrace where it make sense to do so. Instead of Nvidia brute force approach were everything is RT'd making the image look silly. Now if this Navi21 is actually competitive you can forget any consumer savings they will charge what the market will bare for it. I would expect between $699 to $799 for the 5800XT and between $599 to $699 for the 5800 MSRP (placeholder on names). If it gets close to the 2080ti. If it actually beats a 2080ti then I would expect north of $899. Everything is lining up for Radeon right now: -New driver GUI with fixes on the way -New lineup of FreeSync branded monitors placing Gysnc comptable back on the menu. -Ryzen bringing strong brand loyalty back to consumers for a ecocentric PC computing experience with AMD CPU and GPUs. -Strong presence in next gen consoles where porting games is rumored to be via powershell allowing better optimization for AMD ecosystems right off the bat (rumored). Everything is starting to shape up for AMD right now. If the other rumor holds true this will be the 1st time that consoles would distrupt PC gaming in it's life time! Having to upgrade your PC to keep up with console games. That would be a major shake to the PC market. Think about it, you will need a 8 core cpu at min. in order to play console ports because that is how the game is coded on console, for example. PCIe 4.0 becomes a standard and not an option. Etc. very disruptive to say the least. Some will have to decide if they will upgrade their PC or just get a console this go around. And a major part of the decision is going AMD.

Rumors upon rumor. Your entire post of rosy predictions is predicated on a rumor. This reads like an AMD press release with the same caveat as always JustWait ® https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/105128deaa9545598c5a7328f4418e132dad9cf9bde59fcb9c5f8ee5641a3d37.gif