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Windows 10: New Intel Microcode for Spectre V3a, V4 & L1TF Gets Released
Microsoft began rolling out Intel's new countermeasure code against the Spectre V3a, Spectre V4 and L1TF vulnerabilities through Windows Update. It starts with a patch for the latest version of Windows 10, version 1809 October 2018 Update, and Windows Server 2019.
Patch for Broadwell-E to Coffee Lake-S
The patch with the identifier KB4465065 addressed for the time being only CPUs based on Skylake (-Y, -U, -H, -S, -D, -SP) Kaby Lake (Y, -U), a coffee Lake (-H, -S) and Broadwell (-E, -EP, -EX). Also for other versions of Windows 10 or older generations of Windows, the update is not yet available.
After the installation, countermeasures for the Specter V3a and L1TF vulnerabilities are automatically active, but not for Specter V4 - here, users have to be activated by manual intervention in the registry in order to activate this protection as well. The reason for this decision is likely to be the expected loss of performance: Intel calls for two to eight percent less performance in SYSmark 2014 SE and SPEC's integer test.
New microcode via Windows Update instead of BIOS
As a result of serious security vulnerabilities in CPUs, Microsoft first distributed updates with new microcode in April against the Spectre V2 for Windows 10 vulnerabilities. Owners of motherboards, for which the manufacturers had not yet provided a BIOS update with a new microcode, were thus able to secure their system. Previous manual attempts to manually load the new microcode already released by Intel into Windows 10 failed.
Details of Specter V3a, V4, and L1TF
Spectre variant 3a as a new version of "Meltdown" (variant 3) was discovered independently of Google's Project Zero and Microsoft Security Response Center and published in detail by ARM in May ( white paper as PDF ). Affected are Cortex-A15, -A57 and -A72 ARM cores, with ARM classifying the risk that attackers are taking advantage of the gap as so low that countermeasures are not currently considered necessary. As with Meltdown, all of Intel's CPU architectures since the 1st generation core have been affected by this manufacturer.
Spectre Variant 4 ( white paper ) got discovered at Google's Project Zero. Like Specter Variant 1, this vulnerability can be plugged into customization in applications, with Specter V1's existing measures benefiting Specter V4 as well. However, to prevent the gap from being exploited through other means, Intel and Partners have decided to re-adjust the CPU microcode as well. It also contains countermeasures against variant 3a, which cost no performance. Variation 4 affects AMD, ARM, IBM and Intel.
L1 Terminal Fault (L1TF) again comprises three vulnerabilities that represent especially for virtual machines and cloud services at high risk because they allow attackers to leave the own instance and access data from another virtual machine.
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Fox2232
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#5611534 Posted on: 11/28/2018 06:37 PM
It is that time of the year again... It's Bench Time!
It is that time of the year again... It's Bench Time!
nevcairiel
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#5611535 Posted on: 11/28/2018 06:39 PM
Intel has released updates for L1TF and Spectre v3a all the way back to Nehalem. Microsoft usually rolls those out in waves however, since older systems may require more validation.
You can always inquire with your motherboard vendor about a new BIOS with new Microcode if you need it in a more timely manner.
Supporting Broadwell but not Haswell? F U Intel, F U so much.
Intel has released updates for L1TF and Spectre v3a all the way back to Nehalem. Microsoft usually rolls those out in waves however, since older systems may require more validation.
You can always inquire with your motherboard vendor about a new BIOS with new Microcode if you need it in a more timely manner.
scoter man1
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#5611541 Posted on: 11/28/2018 06:54 PM
Better hope it doesn't wipe C:\
Better hope it doesn't wipe C:\
Venix
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#5611561 Posted on: 11/28/2018 08:13 PM
Any eta about the rollback before they get it right ? :p
Any eta about the rollback before they get it right ? :p
Exodite
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#5611562 Posted on: 11/28/2018 08:14 PM
With these patches generally not being deployed back to Sandy Bridge it sometimes feels like my 2600K is getting better and better, relatively speaking.
With these patches generally not being deployed back to Sandy Bridge it sometimes feels like my 2600K is getting better and better, relatively speaking.
tsunami231
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#5611564 Posted on: 11/28/2018 08:23 PM
Eh I tired of this, by the time this all said and done, all the performance hits will add up
Eh I tired of this, by the time this all said and done, all the performance hits will add up
yeeeman
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#5611568 Posted on: 11/28/2018 08:31 PM
Let the "performance decreased significantly with the new ucode updates from Intel" news begin...
Let the "performance decreased significantly with the new ucode updates from Intel" news begin...
Robbo9999
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#5611579 Posted on: 11/28/2018 08:42 PM
I've got a 6700K Skylake CPU and it's been on the latest C6 Microcode since July this year (from motherboard BIOS), previous to that I was on C2 microcode which was the previous Spectre protected version released through Microsoft, and there has been zero performance hit with transferring to this latest C6 microcode - in fact it's marginally faster, but hardly, splitting hairs, but it's not slower. So I think folks will be fine with this latest microcode update through Windows 10 - the Spectre Variant 4 protection is not enabled by default so there's no performance loss. And I'm guessing that Spectre Variant 4 protection is not enabled by default because it's not deemed a high risk and also combined with the high performance hit if it were to be enabled.
I've got a 6700K Skylake CPU and it's been on the latest C6 Microcode since July this year (from motherboard BIOS), previous to that I was on C2 microcode which was the previous Spectre protected version released through Microsoft, and there has been zero performance hit with transferring to this latest C6 microcode - in fact it's marginally faster, but hardly, splitting hairs, but it's not slower. So I think folks will be fine with this latest microcode update through Windows 10 - the Spectre Variant 4 protection is not enabled by default so there's no performance loss. And I'm guessing that Spectre Variant 4 protection is not enabled by default because it's not deemed a high risk and also combined with the high performance hit if it were to be enabled.
tsunami231
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#5611588 Posted on: 11/28/2018 09:06 PM
last update my motherboard got was for C2 microcode that was back in earlier 2018 I dont expect there to be update anytime soon from asrock, then again I also dont care to do the updates via motherboard. I dont see or feel any performance hits though. Im sure they are there if you looking at benchmarks, but real world performance for me I dont see any hits
I've got a 6700K Skylake CPU and it's been on the latest C6 Microcode since July this year (from motherboard BIOS), previous to that I was on C2 microcode which was the previous Spectre protected version released through Microsoft, and there has been zero performance hit with transferring to this latest C6 microcode - in fact it's marginally faster, but hardly, splitting hairs, but it's not slower. So I think folks will be fine with this latest microcode update through Windows 10 - the Spectre Variant 4 protection is not enabled by default so there's no performance loss. And I'm guessing that Spectre Variant 4 protection is not enabled by default because it's not deemed a high risk and also combined with the high performance hit if it were to be enabled.
last update my motherboard got was for C2 microcode that was back in earlier 2018 I dont expect there to be update anytime soon from asrock, then again I also dont care to do the updates via motherboard. I dont see or feel any performance hits though. Im sure they are there if you looking at benchmarks, but real world performance for me I dont see any hits
schmidtbag
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#5611591 Posted on: 11/28/2018 09:20 PM
If any of these patches did some of the same stuff that almost went through with the Linux 4.20 kernel, the performance results are going to scare some people. The performance hit was so bad that the patch was pulled and needed to be tweaked.
To my understanding, if you want full security, you have to disable hyper threading.
If any of these patches did some of the same stuff that almost went through with the Linux 4.20 kernel, the performance results are going to scare some people. The performance hit was so bad that the patch was pulled and needed to be tweaked.
To my understanding, if you want full security, you have to disable hyper threading.
Robbo9999
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#5611595 Posted on: 11/28/2018 09:29 PM
Yeah, there's definitely been a performance hit (in the region of 3%) if you compare my 6700K with zero Spectre protections versus where it's at now with C6 microcode, but there's been no loss for me from going from C2 to C6 microcode though, which is what this latest Microsoft patch is all about.
last update my motherboard got was for C2 microcode that was back in earlier 2018 I dont expect there to be update anytime soon from asrock, then again I also dont care to do the updates via motherboard. I dont see or feel any performance hits though. Im sure they are there if you looking at benchmarks, but real world performance for me I dont see any hits
Yeah, there's definitely been a performance hit (in the region of 3%) if you compare my 6700K with zero Spectre protections versus where it's at now with C6 microcode, but there's been no loss for me from going from C2 to C6 microcode though, which is what this latest Microsoft patch is all about.
Fender178
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#5611599 Posted on: 11/28/2018 09:40 PM
Eh I tired of this, by the time this all said and done, all the performance hits will add up I am with you there. With my x58 xeon rig. I disabled the Spectre and Meltdown patches for better performance since it was causing issues when I was testing PS3 emulation with it enabled. I feel that with older rigs below 4th generation Core i series I would disable the patches for better performance because the performance hit is greater for the older CPUs.
If any of these patches did some of the same stuff that almost went through with the Linux 4.20 kernel, the performance results are going to scare some people. The performance hit was so bad that the patch was pulled and needed to be tweaked.
To my understanding, if you want full security, you have to disable hyper threading. Also to my understanding the performance hit effected Virtualization and Servers as well worse than games did. If what you are saying is true about disabling hyperthreading... I am wiling to bet that most of us will not do that because it will add only more to the performance hit. Especially with games that take advantage of the extra threads.
Eh I tired of this, by the time this all said and done, all the performance hits will add up I am with you there. With my x58 xeon rig. I disabled the Spectre and Meltdown patches for better performance since it was causing issues when I was testing PS3 emulation with it enabled. I feel that with older rigs below 4th generation Core i series I would disable the patches for better performance because the performance hit is greater for the older CPUs.
If any of these patches did some of the same stuff that almost went through with the Linux 4.20 kernel, the performance results are going to scare some people. The performance hit was so bad that the patch was pulled and needed to be tweaked.
To my understanding, if you want full security, you have to disable hyper threading. Also to my understanding the performance hit effected Virtualization and Servers as well worse than games did. If what you are saying is true about disabling hyperthreading... I am wiling to bet that most of us will not do that because it will add only more to the performance hit. Especially with games that take advantage of the extra threads.
schmidtbag
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#5611615 Posted on: 11/28/2018 10:45 PM
Yes, games for the most part don't really get affected, but, they're not that demanding of CPUs in the first place, especially if you have at least 4 physical cores.
The main reason why disabling HT was suggested was actually because those patches were basically just doing exactly that, except through software rather than BIOS. Since that was so counter-productive, Linus and other kernel devs had the same argument as you, which is why they retracted the patch and instead adjusted it to be a little more "open minded" about what gets to use hyper-threaded threads. As a result, some tasks still have a performance hit but it's not as dire as it was just a week ago.
Also to my understanding the performance hit effected Virtualization and Servers as well worse than games did. If what you are saying is true about disabling hyperthreading... I am wiling to bet that most of us will not do that because it will add only more to the performance hit. Especially with games that take advantage of the extra threads.
Yes, games for the most part don't really get affected, but, they're not that demanding of CPUs in the first place, especially if you have at least 4 physical cores.
The main reason why disabling HT was suggested was actually because those patches were basically just doing exactly that, except through software rather than BIOS. Since that was so counter-productive, Linus and other kernel devs had the same argument as you, which is why they retracted the patch and instead adjusted it to be a little more "open minded" about what gets to use hyper-threaded threads. As a result, some tasks still have a performance hit but it's not as dire as it was just a week ago.
HeavyHemi
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#5611616 Posted on: 11/28/2018 10:51 PM
I guess I will be the test victim and see if this screws up overclocking on X99 for a bunch of users. I should be okay as my BIOS is already updated with this ucode version. Thanks EVGA!
Edit....
KB4465065 is not compatible with your computer...
Well running 18282.1000 probably explains that.... :p
I guess I will be the test victim and see if this screws up overclocking on X99 for a bunch of users. I should be okay as my BIOS is already updated with this ucode version. Thanks EVGA!
Edit....
KB4465065 is not compatible with your computer...
Well running 18282.1000 probably explains that.... :p
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Supporting Broadwell but not Haswell? F U Intel, F U so much.