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Gigabyte removes PCIe 4.0 support on all AMD motherboards that are not X570
There has been said and written a lot about PCIe Gen 4.0 support on Series 300 and 400 chipset based motherboards from AMD.
One of the first companies that created a viral in an effort to draw attention was Gigabyte, who introduced a Firmware BIOS switch in their X470 motherboards allowing you to enable PCIe Gen 4.0 (partially). Once that happened a lot of motherboard manufacturers felt obligated to follow. Meanwhile, AMD has been stating that non-500 series motherboards will not get PCIe Gen 4.0 support.
Check out what is happening at the support pages of Gigabyte, they are now removing PCIe Gen 4.0 support from their products starting with the new AGESA 1.0.0.3 ABB BIOS update. Bios version F42a and later is specifically removing support. Gigabyte is listing the withdrawal of the feature with chipsets from X370 and X470 to B350, B450, and A320.
As to why support is removed is not explained.
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Undying
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#5697443 Posted on: 08/05/2019 12:01 PM
Im sure others will do the same thing. Amd needs to sell x570 boards somehow.
Im sure others will do the same thing. Amd needs to sell x570 boards somehow.
Astyanax
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#5697444 Posted on: 08/05/2019 12:04 PM
As to why support is removed is not explained but we're sure that purchasers of a Gigabyte motherboard will not be happy about this and in the future move towards another brand.
This is an error we are correcting. Pre-X570 boards will not support PCIe Gen 4. There's no guarantee that older motherboards can reliably run the more stringent signaling requirements of Gen4, and we simply cannot have a mix of "yes, no, maybe" in the market for all the older motherboards. The potential for confusion is too high.
When final BIOSes are released for 3rd Gen Ryzen (AGESA 1000+), Gen4 will not be an option anymore. We wish we could've enabled this backwards, but the risk is too great.
As to why support is removed is not explained but we're sure that purchasers of a Gigabyte motherboard will not be happy about this and in the future move towards another brand.
This is an error we are correcting. Pre-X570 boards will not support PCIe Gen 4. There's no guarantee that older motherboards can reliably run the more stringent signaling requirements of Gen4, and we simply cannot have a mix of "yes, no, maybe" in the market for all the older motherboards. The potential for confusion is too high.
When final BIOSes are released for 3rd Gen Ryzen (AGESA 1000+), Gen4 will not be an option anymore. We wish we could've enabled this backwards, but the risk is too great.
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#5697446 Posted on: 08/05/2019 12:06 PM
So boards capable of PCIe 4.0 are being forced to use lower PCIe standard. Is this an attempt to force users to upgrade to newer tech or am I missing something.
I though AMD was the nice company and Nvidia/Intel the evil ones.
So boards capable of PCIe 4.0 are being forced to use lower PCIe standard. Is this an attempt to force users to upgrade to newer tech or am I missing something.
I though AMD was the nice company and Nvidia/Intel the evil ones.
Kaarme
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#5697459 Posted on: 08/05/2019 12:41 PM
This is an error we are correcting. Pre-X570 boards will not support PCIe Gen 4. There's no guarantee that older motherboards can reliably run the more stringent signaling requirements of Gen4, and we simply cannot have a mix of "yes, no, maybe" in the market for all the older motherboards. The potential for confusion is too high.
When final BIOSes are released for 3rd Gen Ryzen (AGESA 1000+), Gen4 will not be an option anymore. We wish we could've enabled this backwards, but the risk is too great.
Somehow this AMD philosophy doesn't extend to CPUs and GPUs: It's all up to your luck if your particular unit happens to overclock well or poorly.
This is an error we are correcting. Pre-X570 boards will not support PCIe Gen 4. There's no guarantee that older motherboards can reliably run the more stringent signaling requirements of Gen4, and we simply cannot have a mix of "yes, no, maybe" in the market for all the older motherboards. The potential for confusion is too high.
When final BIOSes are released for 3rd Gen Ryzen (AGESA 1000+), Gen4 will not be an option anymore. We wish we could've enabled this backwards, but the risk is too great.
Somehow this AMD philosophy doesn't extend to CPUs and GPUs: It's all up to your luck if your particular unit happens to overclock well or poorly.
SweenJM
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#5697461 Posted on: 08/05/2019 12:55 PM
Maybe they just don't want us to know how many of their boards won't do pcie 4.0 spec. Kind of curious how many boards will and won't make the cut.
Maybe they just don't want us to know how many of their boards won't do pcie 4.0 spec. Kind of curious how many boards will and won't make the cut.
BReal85
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#5697475 Posted on: 08/05/2019 01:26 PM
So boards capable of PCIe 4.0 are being forced to use lower PCIe standard. Is this an attempt to force users to upgrade to newer tech or am I missing something.
I though AMD was the nice company and Nvidia/Intel the evil ones.
Well AMD stated in time that only X570+ mobos support PCI-E 4.0. That's the end of the story, really. BTW, what do you get from PCI-E 4.0 that is needed for you? The 0 performance upgrade or the active cooler on the mobo?
So boards capable of PCIe 4.0 are being forced to use lower PCIe standard. Is this an attempt to force users to upgrade to newer tech or am I missing something.
I though AMD was the nice company and Nvidia/Intel the evil ones.
Well AMD stated in time that only X570+ mobos support PCI-E 4.0. That's the end of the story, really. BTW, what do you get from PCI-E 4.0 that is needed for you? The 0 performance upgrade or the active cooler on the mobo?
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#5697485 Posted on: 08/05/2019 02:06 PM
AMD pulled an intel on that one ...about stability issues, well let the mb ventors and decide if they want to support it or not , the confusion is not even an issue since older motherboards they do not even advertise it on the box so casual users are oblivious of it anyway and more advanced users like the majority of us here (we are enthusiasts this is why we are here after all) we are not getting confused with such things .
AMD pulled an intel on that one ...about stability issues, well let the mb ventors and decide if they want to support it or not , the confusion is not even an issue since older motherboards they do not even advertise it on the box so casual users are oblivious of it anyway and more advanced users like the majority of us here (we are enthusiasts this is why we are here after all) we are not getting confused with such things .
rl66
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#5697486 Posted on: 08/05/2019 02:08 PM
But there is still only one X570 m-ATX motherboard on the market and few m-ITX... and so, those who want small PC still get 400 series (and those with 300 would not like to change too
).
Personaly i have get the bios with PCIe 4,0 for my B450 but i don't care my GPU is still PCIe 3.0, and when there will be lot of GPU PCIe 4.0 in shop, this PC would'nt be old enough to change the GPU...
Other point to meditate about Gigabyte decision: the 550 is planed just after the summer...
But there is still only one X570 m-ATX motherboard on the market and few m-ITX... and so, those who want small PC still get 400 series (and those with 300 would not like to change too
).Personaly i have get the bios with PCIe 4,0 for my B450 but i don't care my GPU is still PCIe 3.0, and when there will be lot of GPU PCIe 4.0 in shop, this PC would'nt be old enough to change the GPU...
Other point to meditate about Gigabyte decision: the 550 is planed just after the summer...
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#5697487 Posted on: 08/05/2019 02:09 PM
IMO AMD should have solved this on the driver level. Have the platform run PCI-E 3 as default but have a "use on your own risk" tool that enables PCI-E 4.0
IMO AMD should have solved this on the driver level. Have the platform run PCI-E 3 as default but have a "use on your own risk" tool that enables PCI-E 4.0
rl66
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#5697491 Posted on: 08/05/2019 02:12 PM
So boards capable of PCIe 4.0 are being forced to use lower PCIe standard. Is this an attempt to force users to upgrade to newer tech or am I missing something.
I though AMD was the nice company and Nvidia/Intel the evil ones.
Intel have done it too... remember the entry level X79 that were in PCIe 2.0 despite it was capable of PCIe 3.0.
So boards capable of PCIe 4.0 are being forced to use lower PCIe standard. Is this an attempt to force users to upgrade to newer tech or am I missing something.
I though AMD was the nice company and Nvidia/Intel the evil ones.
Intel have done it too... remember the entry level X79 that were in PCIe 2.0 despite it was capable of PCIe 3.0.
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#5697503 Posted on: 08/05/2019 02:51 PM
OC is not operating at "stock", as such there are no guarantees whatsoever.
But if a board claims that PCIe4 is supported, then that becomes "stock", and AMD had a problem with the confusion that can create.
Somehow this AMD philosophy doesn't extend to CPUs and GPUs: It's all up to your luck if your particular unit happens to overclock well or poorly.
OC is not operating at "stock", as such there are no guarantees whatsoever.
But if a board claims that PCIe4 is supported, then that becomes "stock", and AMD had a problem with the confusion that can create.
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#5697531 Posted on: 08/05/2019 03:44 PM
As to why support is removed is not explained but we're sure that purchasers of a Gigabyte motherboard will not be happy about this and in the future move towards another brand.
Didn't they do the same to Asus, and explain why?
So boards capable of PCIe 4.0 are being forced to use lower PCIe standard. Is this an attempt to force users to upgrade to newer tech or am I missing something.
I though AMD was the nice company and Nvidia/Intel the evil ones.
Nobody is forcing you to use PCIe 4.0. As of right now, the only devices available that can take advantage of it are SSDs. And even then, those SSDs will still work on PCIe 3.0, just not as fast.
It is a slap in the face that AMD decided to overrule what Gigabyte (and Asus) did, but, there's still some backward compatibility.
AMD pulled an intel on that one ...about stability issues, well let the mb ventors and decide if they want to support it or not , the confusion is not even an issue since older motherboards they do not even advertise it on the box so casual users are oblivious of it anyway and more advanced users like the majority of us here (we are enthusiasts this is why we are here after all) we are not getting confused with such things .
AMD made it very clear from the beginning they were not going to support PCIe 4.0 on older boards before Zen2 was even released. According to them, the reason is because PCIe 4.0 has much stricter tolerances for signal quality. That's not to say that even an A320 board wouldn't have worked, but the problem is AMD can't guarantee reliable performance or data integrity on older boards. They're not about to risk their reputation because mobo manufacturers decide to go against the spec. AMD has been screwed over on multiple occasions before because of this sort of thing (like the core unlocking, or VRMs that didn't meet CPU needs). Also, it just adds a layer of confusion, since some boards will have support while others don't.
So - are they pulling an Intel here? Yes and no. They are because I'm sure companies like Gigabyte and Asus have done extensive testing, and, they know better than AMD if their boards meet the tolerances for PCIe 4.0; they don't need AMD telling them what their boards can or can't do. The reason they're not pulling an Intel is because AMD isn't the one who defined the PCIe 4.0 spec. It doesn't matter what CPU or board you have, the spec is universal.
It's hard to say whether or not AMD is taking those tolerances too seriously; Intel was proven to heavily exaggerate their tolerances with 1151v2, and artificially break compatibility, so AMD could very well do the same. But considering how they're still trying to build trust, the last thing they need is people getting data corruption because they're running PCIe 4.0 on something that was never intended to be supported. Their iron fist isn't really pleasant, but it's better than being blamed for someone else's mistake.
As to why support is removed is not explained but we're sure that purchasers of a Gigabyte motherboard will not be happy about this and in the future move towards another brand.
Didn't they do the same to Asus, and explain why?
So boards capable of PCIe 4.0 are being forced to use lower PCIe standard. Is this an attempt to force users to upgrade to newer tech or am I missing something.
I though AMD was the nice company and Nvidia/Intel the evil ones.
Nobody is forcing you to use PCIe 4.0. As of right now, the only devices available that can take advantage of it are SSDs. And even then, those SSDs will still work on PCIe 3.0, just not as fast.
It is a slap in the face that AMD decided to overrule what Gigabyte (and Asus) did, but, there's still some backward compatibility.
AMD pulled an intel on that one ...about stability issues, well let the mb ventors and decide if they want to support it or not , the confusion is not even an issue since older motherboards they do not even advertise it on the box so casual users are oblivious of it anyway and more advanced users like the majority of us here (we are enthusiasts this is why we are here after all) we are not getting confused with such things .
AMD made it very clear from the beginning they were not going to support PCIe 4.0 on older boards before Zen2 was even released. According to them, the reason is because PCIe 4.0 has much stricter tolerances for signal quality. That's not to say that even an A320 board wouldn't have worked, but the problem is AMD can't guarantee reliable performance or data integrity on older boards. They're not about to risk their reputation because mobo manufacturers decide to go against the spec. AMD has been screwed over on multiple occasions before because of this sort of thing (like the core unlocking, or VRMs that didn't meet CPU needs). Also, it just adds a layer of confusion, since some boards will have support while others don't.
So - are they pulling an Intel here? Yes and no. They are because I'm sure companies like Gigabyte and Asus have done extensive testing, and, they know better than AMD if their boards meet the tolerances for PCIe 4.0; they don't need AMD telling them what their boards can or can't do. The reason they're not pulling an Intel is because AMD isn't the one who defined the PCIe 4.0 spec. It doesn't matter what CPU or board you have, the spec is universal.
It's hard to say whether or not AMD is taking those tolerances too seriously; Intel was proven to heavily exaggerate their tolerances with 1151v2, and artificially break compatibility, so AMD could very well do the same. But considering how they're still trying to build trust, the last thing they need is people getting data corruption because they're running PCIe 4.0 on something that was never intended to be supported. Their iron fist isn't really pleasant, but it's better than being blamed for someone else's mistake.
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#5697549 Posted on: 08/05/2019 04:37 PM
OC is not operating at "stock", as such there are no guarantees whatsoever.
But if a board claims that PCIe4 is supported, then that becomes "stock", and AMD had a problem with the confusion that can create.
Whoever said there would be guarantees and claims with older mobos? It was just something added in the bios because it seemed to work to varying degrees. Just like the bios allows you to overclock, but there's no guarantee you can get even 100MHz over the stock. If you were lucky, you could get much more. It would be the same with this PCIe 4.0. It's not like the mobo manufacturers would actually print new boxes advertising PCIe 4.0 if they weren't 100% sure it works. And if they were, then why on Earth would AMD be saying that since it's not guaranteed, blah blah blah. In the end it's just something people can try if they want to, with unknown results. Exactly like OC.
This case was nothing but AMD wanting to increase the X570 sales.
OC is not operating at "stock", as such there are no guarantees whatsoever.
But if a board claims that PCIe4 is supported, then that becomes "stock", and AMD had a problem with the confusion that can create.
Whoever said there would be guarantees and claims with older mobos? It was just something added in the bios because it seemed to work to varying degrees. Just like the bios allows you to overclock, but there's no guarantee you can get even 100MHz over the stock. If you were lucky, you could get much more. It would be the same with this PCIe 4.0. It's not like the mobo manufacturers would actually print new boxes advertising PCIe 4.0 if they weren't 100% sure it works. And if they were, then why on Earth would AMD be saying that since it's not guaranteed, blah blah blah. In the end it's just something people can try if they want to, with unknown results. Exactly like OC.
This case was nothing but AMD wanting to increase the X570 sales.
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#5697553 Posted on: 08/05/2019 04:43 PM
I'm not sure that OC is equivalent to switching PCIe to a mode which runs at double data rates and requires far more stringent specs, so much so that a new standard had to be written.
Somehow this AMD philosophy doesn't extend to CPUs and GPUs: It's all up to your luck if your particular unit happens to overclock well or poorly.
I'm not sure that OC is equivalent to switching PCIe to a mode which runs at double data rates and requires far more stringent specs, so much so that a new standard had to be written.
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Gigabyte had no choice but to remove this. AMD practically forced them. AMD has full control over the AGESA, they don't let manufacturers modify it at all. So with a new update, they basically forced PCIe 4.0 to be unavailable in AGESA, and any board vendor that wants to update to it (and they really should want to), is simply forced to discontinue PCIe 4.0 on 300 or 400 series boards.
Its really their own fault for starting a marketing thing for PCIe4.0 contrary to AMDs wishes. Now they are left in a position where it has to be discontinued. And any other vendors that tried to do the same thing will also have to remove it not before long.