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Pro Overclocker Der8auer Feels X299 is a Platform Disaster for Overclocking
As you have been able to notice from my reviews, the X299 platform has massive challenges in overclocking (and other segments as well). Pro-overclocker Der8auer now states that the X299 Platform a “Disaster” for tweaking.
Der8auer voices his take on X299 on his YouTube channel and focuses mostly on the poor state of MOSFETs / VRM versus cooling. Der8auer mentions that the temperatures are running too hot under load. Measuring the front and the back of his AORUS X299 Gaming 3 board, the temperatures read 84.2 and 105.9 degrees Celsius. The heatsinks on the motherboards apparently are not enough to keep the MOSFET temperatures in line He also mentions that his ASUS X299 Prime motherboard shows even worse numbers.
These values are only at 4.6GHz at 1.2V, which is extremely mild for an overclock. He spotted 105.9 degrees. Der8auer mentions these values are reached after 15 minutes of Prime95 with a non-AVX load. If he used a CPU stress program that actually uses AVX, the temperatures will be even higher.
Der8auer states all current motherboards are poorly designed for overclocking. He states Skylake-X CPUs are drawing too much for only a single 8-pin feed. This results in higher temperatures and can even burn some power supply cables. Such temperatures can climb up to 80 or 90C, which is dangerous. That is why according to him, he cannot recommend ANY X299 motherboard with only a single 8-pin PSU connector (mind you that only applies if you plan to overclock).
It does not matter whether it is Gigabyte, ASUS, ASRock, MSI, etc. No matter how good the VRM design claim is, if it only has an 8-pin power connector feeding the CPU, stay away from it, Der8auer states.
Ricepudding
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#5447517 Posted on: 06/29/2017 09:13 AM
I saw this earlier on his own YouTube channel. It feels like intel has rushed this out the gates, and leaving bread crumbs of errors and faultss along the way... the board manufacturers rushed out products and some of them just don't run well past anything other than stock, and with temps getting to 100 degrees even with water cooling and a very small over clock these products just seem out of place :/
I still don't get why they're using paste instead of solder on these cpus, it's insane. I feel bad for anyone who isn't as informed who purchase these to find all the surprises waiting for them... amd have really stirred up the pot in a massive way, hopefully thread ripper comes up and doesn't have any of these issues
I saw this earlier on his own YouTube channel. It feels like intel has rushed this out the gates, and leaving bread crumbs of errors and faultss along the way... the board manufacturers rushed out products and some of them just don't run well past anything other than stock, and with temps getting to 100 degrees even with water cooling and a very small over clock these products just seem out of place :/
I still don't get why they're using paste instead of solder on these cpus, it's insane. I feel bad for anyone who isn't as informed who purchase these to find all the surprises waiting for them... amd have really stirred up the pot in a massive way, hopefully thread ripper comes up and doesn't have any of these issues
SirDremor
Senior Member
Posts: 586
Joined: 2008-06-20
Senior Member
Posts: 586
Joined: 2008-06-20
#5447521 Posted on: 06/29/2017 09:26 AM
Another Intel-hate story.
Can we maybe consolidate them in a once-in-a-week article?
I don't claim X299 is not without bugs, but I don't have any doubts they will be ironed out pretty soon. I bet - with the release of a big-core-count CPUs, so probbaly by Christmas, it will be all well again.
And Threadripper... apart form a name on a paper, it doesn't exist still.
Another Intel-hate story.
Can we maybe consolidate them in a once-in-a-week article?
I don't claim X299 is not without bugs, but I don't have any doubts they will be ironed out pretty soon. I bet - with the release of a big-core-count CPUs, so probbaly by Christmas, it will be all well again.
And Threadripper... apart form a name on a paper, it doesn't exist still.
Exascale
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Joined: 2017-06-09
Senior Member
Posts: 397
Joined: 2017-06-09
#5447526 Posted on: 06/29/2017 09:34 AM
Is it Intel hate? Its legitimately a problem that shouldnt be happening to an established player in this market.
They havent had any competition for years. Thats probably one of the reasons why theyre having issues now, but it shouldnt have resulted in a platform like X299 and their price hike of the entire Xeon lineup.
http://semiaccurate.com/2017/05/05/intels-new-scalable-xeon-branding-just-price-increase/
Is it Intel hate? Its legitimately a problem that shouldnt be happening to an established player in this market.
They havent had any competition for years. Thats probably one of the reasons why theyre having issues now, but it shouldnt have resulted in a platform like X299 and their price hike of the entire Xeon lineup.
http://semiaccurate.com/2017/05/05/intels-new-scalable-xeon-branding-just-price-increase/
FeDaYin
Member
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Joined: 2006-07-20
Member
Posts: 71
Joined: 2006-07-20
#5447527 Posted on: 06/29/2017 09:37 AM
Maybe now we need aftermarket rgb cables with increased thickness and technology that prevents overheating.
Just $99 for one 8 pin cable.
Maybe now we need aftermarket rgb cables with increased thickness and technology that prevents overheating.
Just $99 for one 8 pin cable.
asturur
Senior Member
Posts: 385
Joined: 2010-05-12
Senior Member
Posts: 385
Joined: 2010-05-12
#5447534 Posted on: 06/29/2017 10:04 AM
Well, i always bought intel, and i will decide what to buy as soon both the competitors are out. But to be hones, the cpu on the x299 need an better cooler to overclock right? If you want to overlock 10 cores you need cool your cpu a way more than a standard air cooler can do.
Why should be different for mosfet and voltage regulators?
If you want to tweak it you should take care of your cooling if the standard is not enough.
Well, i always bought intel, and i will decide what to buy as soon both the competitors are out. But to be hones, the cpu on the x299 need an better cooler to overclock right? If you want to overlock 10 cores you need cool your cpu a way more than a standard air cooler can do.
Why should be different for mosfet and voltage regulators?
If you want to tweak it you should take care of your cooling if the standard is not enough.
Exascale
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Posts: 397
Joined: 2017-06-09
#5447535 Posted on: 06/29/2017 10:05 AM
Well, i always bought intel, and i will decide what to buy as soon both the competitors are out. But to be hones, the cpu on the x299 need an better cooler to overclock right? If you want to overlock 10 cores you need cool your cpu a way more than a standard air cooler can do.
Why should be different for mosfet and voltage regulators?
If you want to tweak it you should take care of your cooling if the standard is not enough.
The article says its an issue evem with good cooling...
Well, i always bought intel, and i will decide what to buy as soon both the competitors are out. But to be hones, the cpu on the x299 need an better cooler to overclock right? If you want to overlock 10 cores you need cool your cpu a way more than a standard air cooler can do.
Why should be different for mosfet and voltage regulators?
If you want to tweak it you should take care of your cooling if the standard is not enough.
The article says its an issue evem with good cooling...
RooiKreef
Senior Member
Posts: 365
Joined: 2016-06-08
Senior Member
Posts: 365
Joined: 2016-06-08
#5447538 Posted on: 06/29/2017 10:14 AM
My take on this is that I won't be too worried about the vrm heat, as that can be solved with a little fan and a better heat transfer between fets and heatsink. The biggest concern here is the power draw from the 8 pin. I mean 80C on the powerline is ludicrous!!! Maybe put a fan and sink on your cables.... hahaha!
My take on this is that I won't be too worried about the vrm heat, as that can be solved with a little fan and a better heat transfer between fets and heatsink. The biggest concern here is the power draw from the 8 pin. I mean 80C on the powerline is ludicrous!!! Maybe put a fan and sink on your cables.... hahaha!
nevcairiel
Senior Member
Posts: 600
Joined: 2015-05-19
Senior Member
Posts: 600
Joined: 2015-05-19
#5447541 Posted on: 06/29/2017 10:16 AM
This particular problem is motherboard manufactures screwing up the VRM cooling (presumably because they focus too much on ****ty RGB designs instead of functional cooling), not directly Intels fault (other then making a CPU that needs more power, and releasing a bit early)
der8auer himself said that the Intel SKL-X CPUs actually OC quite well (presumably on his Apex engineering sample), but in this case the currently available motherboards are seriously holding them back due to overheating VRMs.
Its not inherently a platform or CPU problem, and could possibly be solved by better motherboard designs - and hopefully the round of high-end boards that release after the first wave will have some better designs here.
This can also be resolved by using 8+4 or 8+8 instead of just a single 8.
Personally I'm going with an entry level board for now, and will see what happens with the OC boards that release later.
Is it Intel hate? Its legitimately a problem that shouldnt be happening to an established player in this market.
This particular problem is motherboard manufactures screwing up the VRM cooling (presumably because they focus too much on ****ty RGB designs instead of functional cooling), not directly Intels fault (other then making a CPU that needs more power, and releasing a bit early)
der8auer himself said that the Intel SKL-X CPUs actually OC quite well (presumably on his Apex engineering sample), but in this case the currently available motherboards are seriously holding them back due to overheating VRMs.
Its not inherently a platform or CPU problem, and could possibly be solved by better motherboard designs - and hopefully the round of high-end boards that release after the first wave will have some better designs here.
The biggest concern here is the power draw from the 8 pin. I mean 80C on the powerline is ludicrous!!! Maybe put a fan and sink on your cables.... hahaha!
This can also be resolved by using 8+4 or 8+8 instead of just a single 8.
Personally I'm going with an entry level board for now, and will see what happens with the OC boards that release later.
Dazz
Senior Member
Posts: 814
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Senior Member
Posts: 814
Joined: 2001-08-12
#5447544 Posted on: 06/29/2017 10:21 AM
Another Intel-hate story.
Can we maybe consolidate them in a once-in-a-week article?
I don't claim X299 is not without bugs, but I don't have any doubts they will be ironed out pretty soon. I bet - with the release of a big-core-count CPUs, so probbaly by Christmas, it will be all well again.
And Threadripper... apart form a name on a paper, it doesn't exist still.
A bug, a bug, watch the damn video there is serous health and safety concerns when you are hitting the maximum thermal thresholds of power cables and draw through the power connectors this means under sustained load you could have a fire, best case you can short the motherboard and CPU. Thats why he is saying avoid single 8pin motherboards altogether especially if you plan to overclock.
Another Intel-hate story.
Can we maybe consolidate them in a once-in-a-week article?
I don't claim X299 is not without bugs, but I don't have any doubts they will be ironed out pretty soon. I bet - with the release of a big-core-count CPUs, so probbaly by Christmas, it will be all well again.
And Threadripper... apart form a name on a paper, it doesn't exist still.
A bug, a bug, watch the damn video there is serous health and safety concerns when you are hitting the maximum thermal thresholds of power cables and draw through the power connectors this means under sustained load you could have a fire, best case you can short the motherboard and CPU. Thats why he is saying avoid single 8pin motherboards altogether especially if you plan to overclock.
Exascale
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Posts: 397
Joined: 2017-06-09
#5447545 Posted on: 06/29/2017 10:21 AM
Doesnt intel give them the specs to use?
Kinda reminds me of the Geforce 970, which had no reference board. Most 970 AIBs sucked and many didnt even have VRM cooling at all(Asus) and some had ill fitting heatpipes that didnt touch the chip(EVGA).
While the AIB makers made the bad boards, Nvidia could have specified a better design for them to use.
Doesnt intel give them the specs to use?
Kinda reminds me of the Geforce 970, which had no reference board. Most 970 AIBs sucked and many didnt even have VRM cooling at all(Asus) and some had ill fitting heatpipes that didnt touch the chip(EVGA).
While the AIB makers made the bad boards, Nvidia could have specified a better design for them to use.
nevcairiel
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Senior Member
Posts: 600
Joined: 2015-05-19
#5447549 Posted on: 06/29/2017 10:28 AM
If you run stock, all of those boards work perfectly fine, no throttling and no overheating, even on single 8-pin (der8auer said that quite clearly as well).
Its just when you OC and the power shoots up from the stock 140-150W to up to 300W on the CPU alone that stuff gets crazy. I seriously doubt Intel hands out specs for OC boards - but with a long history of various "OC" branded boards, one would have hoped the motherboard manufacturers would have the experience required to build boards that can actually OC.
Doesnt intel give them the specs to use?
If you run stock, all of those boards work perfectly fine, no throttling and no overheating, even on single 8-pin (der8auer said that quite clearly as well).
Its just when you OC and the power shoots up from the stock 140-150W to up to 300W on the CPU alone that stuff gets crazy. I seriously doubt Intel hands out specs for OC boards - but with a long history of various "OC" branded boards, one would have hoped the motherboard manufacturers would have the experience required to build boards that can actually OC.
ivymike10mt
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Senior Member
Posts: 228
Joined: 2015-01-28
#5447550 Posted on: 06/29/2017 10:30 AM
Thats usually happen when they using cooper or iron (lol) instead use some golden in mosfets.
In so expensive mobos, that just never should happen.
Coils also Should be high effiency.
Chipsets loaded with featureres not help temp aswell.
For contrast, my Asus Z270-A is freaking coold after OC.
Thats usually happen when they using cooper or iron (lol) instead use some golden in mosfets.
In so expensive mobos, that just never should happen.
Coils also Should be high effiency.
Chipsets loaded with featureres not help temp aswell.
For contrast, my Asus Z270-A is freaking coold after OC.
Hilbert Hagedoorn
Don Vito Corleone
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Don Vito Corleone
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#5447557 Posted on: 06/29/2017 10:49 AM
Another Intel-hate story.
Can we maybe consolidate them in a once-in-a-week article?
I don't claim X299 is not without bugs, but I don't have any doubts they will be ironed out pretty soon. I bet - with the release of a big-core-count CPUs, so probbaly by Christmas, it will be all well again.
And Threadripper... apart form a name on a paper, it doesn't exist still.
Not without bugs? Mate, it is full of bugs. It isn't a hate story, it's the current facts and what crap editor would I be if I did not report on it? If I can give you an example, on my latest (unpublished just yet) testing with an ASUS board with an all new public and updated BIOS, I actually ABORTED overclocking with water-cooling 1.30 Volts on the CPU at 4600 MHz.
Why, if you wonder? your answer can be found here.
Another Intel-hate story.
Can we maybe consolidate them in a once-in-a-week article?
I don't claim X299 is not without bugs, but I don't have any doubts they will be ironed out pretty soon. I bet - with the release of a big-core-count CPUs, so probbaly by Christmas, it will be all well again.
And Threadripper... apart form a name on a paper, it doesn't exist still.
Not without bugs? Mate, it is full of bugs. It isn't a hate story, it's the current facts and what crap editor would I be if I did not report on it? If I can give you an example, on my latest (unpublished just yet) testing with an ASUS board with an all new public and updated BIOS, I actually ABORTED overclocking with water-cooling 1.30 Volts on the CPU at 4600 MHz.
Why, if you wonder? your answer can be found here.
Paulo Narciso
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Posts: 1215
Joined: 2007-02-21
#5447566 Posted on: 06/29/2017 11:08 AM
Not without bugs? Mate, it is full of bugs. It isn't a hate story, it's the current facts and what crap editor would I be if I did not report on it? If I can give you an example, on my latest (unpublished just yet) testing with an ASUS board with an all new public and updated BIOS, I actually ABORTED overclocking with water-cooling 1.30 Volts on the CPU at 4600 MHz.
Why, if you wonder? your answer can be found here.
Intel should stop the nonsense of using chewing gum as tim.
Not without bugs? Mate, it is full of bugs. It isn't a hate story, it's the current facts and what crap editor would I be if I did not report on it? If I can give you an example, on my latest (unpublished just yet) testing with an ASUS board with an all new public and updated BIOS, I actually ABORTED overclocking with water-cooling 1.30 Volts on the CPU at 4600 MHz.
Why, if you wonder? your answer can be found here.
Intel should stop the nonsense of using chewing gum as tim.
Click here to post a comment for this news story on the message forum.
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I wasnt planning on buying one of these, and i have been telling people to wait for Ryzen and Threadripper. Looks like thats a good recommendation.
Ive always bought and recommended Intel. Looks like thats changing.
Intel is making some rather large mistakes. Knights Landing didnt work out so well compared to Pascal, the Aurora supercomputer has been delayed and the architecture is apparently being re-evaluated, possibly because the larger Knights Hill based machine wont be able to outperform the Volta based Summit and Sierra machines. Knights Mill is now a separate machine learning chip, meanwhile Volta has >7 TFLOPS DP and 120 TFLOPS from the tensor cores for machine learning. Can Intel keep up?
Now we have Skylake X and Skylake-SP looking bad. Looks like X wont perform like is supposed to and SP is going to be massively expensive compared to Epyc, while offering lower memory bandwidth and still being limited to 46bit PA space while AMD had the foresight to give Epyc 48bit PA.
At the moment, it really looks like Intel is falling behind while AMD and Nvidia are moving ahead in all areas.