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Guru3D Rig of the Month - December 2018
Crucial launches nvdimm memory
Crucial (Micron) today launches nvdimm memory for server. It is quite interesting as this type of memory combines dram and nand on one single module. This way you will get the performance of dram but during a power outage, your data will remain intact.
Nvdimm is short for nonvolatile DIMM memory and takes a seat into DDR4 memory slots of servers. The 288pin DIMMs offer a speed of 2133MT/s and a bandwidth of 17 GB/s . The memory operates at the standard JEDEC voltage of 1.2V . When a power outage or other interruption system controller transmits the signal to the module so that the data of the dram to the non - volatile memory will be written.
Once power kicks back in allows the controller will write the data to dram again, at that point the system can continue as-is. Crucial sells nvdimm as a separate module and a 2.5 " -formfactor combined with a PowerGem capacitor from AgigA Tech, which temporarily keeps the DIMM powered during outages. Crucial only offers 8GB nvdimms. According to Micron 16GB versions are coming.
Crucial MX300 SSDs with 3d-nand - 05/19/2016 05:45 PM
Micron has released the new Crucial MX300 SSD series that will make use of 3D Nand (vertical stacked NAND), it is TLC written. The product will become available in 275GB up-to 2 TB volume sizes. A 750...
Crucial Announces Ballistix Sport LT DDR4 SODIMMs - 05/17/2016 04:31 PM
New modules give gamers more speed, more performance, and better gaming. Crucial, a leading global brand of memory and storage upgrades, today announced the availability of Ballistix Sport LT DDR4 SO...
Micron to release Crucial MX300 SSDs with 3d-nand this summer - 05/04/2016 07:23 AM
Micron will be releasing a Crucial MX300 SSD series that will make use of 3D Nand (vertical stacked NAND), it is TLC written. The product will become available in 275GB up-to 2 TB volume sizes. A 7...
Crucial DDR4 2400MT/s 8Gb-based Server Memory Available - 12/09/2015 09:09 AM
Crucial announced the availability of Crucial DDR4 2400MT/s 8Gb-based RDIMM, LRDIMM and ECC UDIMM server modules. Engineered to enable higher density modules, 8Gb-based DDR4 enables increased performa...
Crucial Launches Budget BX200 SSD - 11/03/2015 03:19 PM
Crucial announced their Crucial BX200 solid state drive (SSD), which offers affordable performance. The drive, designed for consumers and SMBs, allows users to load applications in seconds, boot up al...
WareTernal
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#5293166 Posted on: 06/21/2016 05:50 PM
I'm reading that it only writes to NAND when the power is interrupted.
I'm still not sure how this would work. Are they saying we wouldn't need to reboot the server? It would just magically skip the 5-10 minute boot process and just jump right back to its previous running state? I can't see that happening....
Memory, that's a lot of changed bits every second on server. If it is stored on nand...
I'm reading that it only writes to NAND when the power is interrupted.
I'm still not sure how this would work. Are they saying we wouldn't need to reboot the server? It would just magically skip the 5-10 minute boot process and just jump right back to its previous running state? I can't see that happening....
Fox2232
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#5293180 Posted on: 06/21/2016 06:11 PM
I'm reading that it only writes to NAND when the power is interrupted.
I'm still not sure how this would work. Are they saying we wouldn't need to reboot the server? It would just magically skip the 5-10 minute boot process and just jump right back to its previous running state? I can't see that happening....
Then They have to have capacitors or backup battery which will keep memory operational during writing data to nand.
That would work. Data in CPU cache would still be lost, unless even CPU/MB has UPS backup. And as it reaches low power it would trigger 'suspend to ram'.
With 'suspend to ram' CPU no longer works on data and as UPS runs out of power, memory will write its nand.
Upon recovery of electricity delivery system has to initiate reverse 'suspend to ram'.
How that's triggered when entire MB goes out of power, I do not know.
But considering all complications in this chain and requirements to have UPS anyway to prevent errors from CPU cache loss...
I think UPS + classical software initiated hibernation is practically same solution with less complications.
Hell, Even my UPS can tell to PC to shutdown/hibernate when it is running out of juice.
I'm reading that it only writes to NAND when the power is interrupted.
I'm still not sure how this would work. Are they saying we wouldn't need to reboot the server? It would just magically skip the 5-10 minute boot process and just jump right back to its previous running state? I can't see that happening....
Then They have to have capacitors or backup battery which will keep memory operational during writing data to nand.
That would work. Data in CPU cache would still be lost, unless even CPU/MB has UPS backup. And as it reaches low power it would trigger 'suspend to ram'.
With 'suspend to ram' CPU no longer works on data and as UPS runs out of power, memory will write its nand.
Upon recovery of electricity delivery system has to initiate reverse 'suspend to ram'.
How that's triggered when entire MB goes out of power, I do not know.
But considering all complications in this chain and requirements to have UPS anyway to prevent errors from CPU cache loss...
I think UPS + classical software initiated hibernation is practically same solution with less complications.
Hell, Even my UPS can tell to PC to shutdown/hibernate when it is running out of juice.
MM10X
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#5293215 Posted on: 06/21/2016 07:29 PM
I don't really see the practicality of this application...
Most data centers, like the one I'm sitting in, have redundant generators. If the city grid loses power the building can still stay running without interruption for several days.
I don't really see the practicality of this application...
Most data centers, like the one I'm sitting in, have redundant generators. If the city grid loses power the building can still stay running without interruption for several days.
schmidtbag
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#5293246 Posted on: 06/21/2016 08:54 PM
Memory, that's a lot of changed bits every second on server. If it is stored on nand...
What's life expectancy? Do they use like 64GB nand on 8GB memory module to actually keep it from sudden death?
I was thinking the same thing... I can't imagine this lasting much longer than a year or two in the average server. Not to mention, there will hardly be any hardware out there that can actually take advantage of the non-volatile feature.
As stated by others, it's better to just use backup power sources and redundancy. Even if it's just a brownout, a few seconds of downtime could cost a fortune for companies that could afford something like this (especially if it has a very limited lifespan, and requires frequent replacement).
Is this even ECC or buffered?
EDIT:
Just an afterthought - seeing as most servers run Linux, it's possible to "freeze" applications. Meaning, you can effectively hibernate the program without closing it or shutting off the computer, where you can then restore the application later on. If retaining a memory status is really so important, to me, it'd make more sense to use a cron job to freeze the application every 10 minutes or so. Depending on what's being processed, 10 minutes of lost time is better than several hours. Still a stupid idea, regardless.
Memory, that's a lot of changed bits every second on server. If it is stored on nand...
What's life expectancy? Do they use like 64GB nand on 8GB memory module to actually keep it from sudden death?
I was thinking the same thing... I can't imagine this lasting much longer than a year or two in the average server. Not to mention, there will hardly be any hardware out there that can actually take advantage of the non-volatile feature.
As stated by others, it's better to just use backup power sources and redundancy. Even if it's just a brownout, a few seconds of downtime could cost a fortune for companies that could afford something like this (especially if it has a very limited lifespan, and requires frequent replacement).
Is this even ECC or buffered?
EDIT:
Just an afterthought - seeing as most servers run Linux, it's possible to "freeze" applications. Meaning, you can effectively hibernate the program without closing it or shutting off the computer, where you can then restore the application later on. If retaining a memory status is really so important, to me, it'd make more sense to use a cron job to freeze the application every 10 minutes or so. Depending on what's being processed, 10 minutes of lost time is better than several hours. Still a stupid idea, regardless.
fern374702
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#5293337 Posted on: 06/22/2016 01:43 AM
i think this great potential for PC/desktop/workshop users. think of some reduced latency,boot time, power consumption compared to a traditional "harddisk->mobo<-Ram" architecture.
if this tech will mature... this will put some order in the void between volatile and non-volatile memory. or if possible unify both volatile and non volatile
just like how processors do right now where the memory controller/northbridge is incorporated inside the proc unlike in the past where in it was put in the mobo.
i think this great potential for PC/desktop/workshop users. think of some reduced latency,boot time, power consumption compared to a traditional "harddisk->mobo<-Ram" architecture.
if this tech will mature... this will put some order in the void between volatile and non-volatile memory. or if possible unify both volatile and non volatile
just like how processors do right now where the memory controller/northbridge is incorporated inside the proc unlike in the past where in it was put in the mobo.
schmidtbag
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#5293470 Posted on: 06/22/2016 02:08 PM
There is definitely more practicality for a workstation user than a server (because workstations tend to have irreplaceable content, but don't rely on a constant uptime) but remember, you need to take into account motherboards that will actually support something like this. Considering how new this technology is, it would be far outside the reach of consumers, even workstation users. For most PC and workstation users, they're better off just doing hibernation or standby. It's only mildly slower. Also, I figure a UPS is cheaper, and more convenient.
i think this great potential for PC/desktop/workshop users. think of some reduced latency,boot time, power consumption compared to a traditional "harddisk->mobo<-Ram" architecture.
There is definitely more practicality for a workstation user than a server (because workstations tend to have irreplaceable content, but don't rely on a constant uptime) but remember, you need to take into account motherboards that will actually support something like this. Considering how new this technology is, it would be far outside the reach of consumers, even workstation users. For most PC and workstation users, they're better off just doing hibernation or standby. It's only mildly slower. Also, I figure a UPS is cheaper, and more convenient.
fern374702
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#5293491 Posted on: 06/22/2016 03:06 PM
I believe so too. barebone system/hardware will be taking advantage of this tech. cant wait for something like this to happen.
btw... are smartphones also/already using this sort of "unified memory tech"?
There is definitely more practicality for a workstation user than a server (because workstations tend to have irreplaceable content, but don't rely on a constant uptime) but remember, you need to take into account motherboards that will actually support something like this. Considering how new this technology is, it would be far outside the reach of consumers, even workstation users. For most PC and workstation users, they're better off just doing hibernation or standby. It's only mildly slower. Also, I figure a UPS is cheaper, and more convenient.
I believe so too. barebone system/hardware will be taking advantage of this tech. cant wait for something like this to happen.
btw... are smartphones also/already using this sort of "unified memory tech"?
schmidtbag
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#5293500 Posted on: 06/22/2016 03:26 PM
I believe so too. barebone system/hardware will be taking advantage of this tech. cant wait for something like this to happen.
btw... are smartphones also/already using this sort of "unified memory tech"?
Depends on your definition of unified. But the simple answer is no. Smartphones use SoCs (System on Chips), where at the very least the CPU, GPU, VPU, northbridge, and RAM are all merged into one chip. In some cases, you might find things like NICs, USB controllers, audio controllers, etc are also in the same chip. To my knowledge, there are no ARM or MIPS devices where the NAND storage is part of the SoC.
So physically, you could say that smartphone platforms are unified. But at the software level it doesn't work that way at all. Also keep in mind that for some phones (not sure about Windows or iOS), Android is a virtual machine. That means you could, in theory, do a snapshot of the OS, pull out the battery, put the battery back in, and resume your session as though you had something like this nvdimm memory. But snapshots are really just an external form of hibernation.
I believe so too. barebone system/hardware will be taking advantage of this tech. cant wait for something like this to happen.
btw... are smartphones also/already using this sort of "unified memory tech"?
Depends on your definition of unified. But the simple answer is no. Smartphones use SoCs (System on Chips), where at the very least the CPU, GPU, VPU, northbridge, and RAM are all merged into one chip. In some cases, you might find things like NICs, USB controllers, audio controllers, etc are also in the same chip. To my knowledge, there are no ARM or MIPS devices where the NAND storage is part of the SoC.
So physically, you could say that smartphone platforms are unified. But at the software level it doesn't work that way at all. Also keep in mind that for some phones (not sure about Windows or iOS), Android is a virtual machine. That means you could, in theory, do a snapshot of the OS, pull out the battery, put the battery back in, and resume your session as though you had something like this nvdimm memory. But snapshots are really just an external form of hibernation.
WareTernal
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#5293540 Posted on: 06/22/2016 05:04 PM
Then They have to have capacitors or backup battery
They do! "combined with a PowerGem capacitor from AgigA Tech"
I can't imagine this lasting much longer than a year or two in the average server. Not to mention, there will hardly be any hardware out there that can actually take advantage of the non-volatile feature.
I can' see this having a shorter lifespan than any other RAM - the NAND is only written to in the event of power failure. All servers(should) use UPS, so this wont happen very often. The hardware to support this is already available.
or if possible unify both volatile and non volatile
Intel is going to start closing that gap soon with XPoint.
After reading more, it sounds like this is for RAID controllers or NAS.
Then They have to have capacitors or backup battery
They do! "combined with a PowerGem capacitor from AgigA Tech"
I can't imagine this lasting much longer than a year or two in the average server. Not to mention, there will hardly be any hardware out there that can actually take advantage of the non-volatile feature.
I can' see this having a shorter lifespan than any other RAM - the NAND is only written to in the event of power failure. All servers(should) use UPS, so this wont happen very often. The hardware to support this is already available.
or if possible unify both volatile and non volatile
Intel is going to start closing that gap soon with XPoint.
After reading more, it sounds like this is for RAID controllers or NAS.
schmidtbag
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#5293556 Posted on: 06/22/2016 05:26 PM
If the NAND is only written to in the event of a power failure, then what's the point of having this? Why not just have an SSD dedicated toward hibernation, VM snapshots, or application freezing?
I can' see this having a shorter lifespan than any other RAM - the NAND is only written to in the event of power failure. All servers(should) use UPS, so this wont happen very often. The hardware to support this is already available.
If the NAND is only written to in the event of a power failure, then what's the point of having this? Why not just have an SSD dedicated toward hibernation, VM snapshots, or application freezing?
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Memory, that's a lot of changed bits every second on server. If it is stored on nand...
What's life expectancy? Do they use like 64GB nand on 8GB memory module to actually keep it from sudden death?