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Autopilot disabled on the Tesla Model 3 in Europe
Tesla started delivering the Model 3 electric cars to customers in Europe. However, the driver assistance package Autopilot is disabled, even if customers have paid for the additional 5,200 euros. The reason, Tesla has not received approval.
A few Tesla customers in Europe have already received their Model 3 electric car, but the Autopilot assistance system is currently shut down. According to a Los Angeles Times report, drivers can not use the function because Tesla is waiting for approval from the Dutch regulatory authorities. Telsa announced in January 2019 that it had received type approval for the Model 3. This means that the vehicle has been cleared for sale throughout the European Union. The autopilot obviously does not belong to it. The assistance system is also sold as an option in Model S and Model X in Europe and is apparently approved there. Tesla told hopes to get approval soon, and with a bit of luck can activate autopilot in Europe starting next week.
In the EU the Model 3 is available as a two-wheel drive versions with and without a performance package. The purchase price is 40,000 euros. The version with long-distance battery costs 55,400 euros, the performance model 66,100 euros. There are also extras like a color other than black for the body (1,600 to 2,600 euros) or the interior (1,050 euros), other wheels (1,600 euros) or said autopilot for 5,200 euros.
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FOG>Daheee
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#5637073 Posted on: 02/08/2019 01:50 PM
I just bought 10 for 4000 Euros each, not a bad deal. If Tesla refuse to supply me then I will be taking HH to court for the extra money.
I just bought 10 for 4000 Euros each, not a bad deal. If Tesla refuse to supply me then I will be taking HH to court for the extra money.
Hilbert Hagedoorn
Don Vito Corleone
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Don Vito Corleone
Posts: 35896
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#5637108 Posted on: 02/08/2019 03:29 PM
Yeah, let me add a zero .. just in case
I just bought 10 for 4000 Euros each, not a bad deal. If Tesla refuse to supply me then I will be taking HH to court for the extra money.
Yeah, let me add a zero .. just in case
schmidtbag
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#5637128 Posted on: 02/08/2019 04:14 PM
So, I'm not too familiar with how the EU is governed, but why is it that the Dutch regulatory authority gets to decide what happens in the rest of the EU?
So, I'm not too familiar with how the EU is governed, but why is it that the Dutch regulatory authority gets to decide what happens in the rest of the EU?
Dribble
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#5637194 Posted on: 02/08/2019 06:09 PM
The way the EU works basically any country can block anything, which with that many countries means it's hard to push through anything (e.g. a trade agreement). The EU's general solution to this is the eurocrats do it and don't really let anyone who was actually elected know what's going on. The bureaucrats need to be *paid* to do this for you (hence EU HQ being surrounded by every big business). Clearly Tesla didn't bother to pay, and if you don't pay you don't get.
So, I'm not too familiar with how the EU is governed, but why is it that the Dutch regulatory authority gets to decide what happens in the rest of the EU?
The way the EU works basically any country can block anything, which with that many countries means it's hard to push through anything (e.g. a trade agreement). The EU's general solution to this is the eurocrats do it and don't really let anyone who was actually elected know what's going on. The bureaucrats need to be *paid* to do this for you (hence EU HQ being surrounded by every big business). Clearly Tesla didn't bother to pay, and if you don't pay you don't get.
rl66
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#5637223 Posted on: 02/08/2019 07:03 PM
The EU Law is the main thing and on top of that there is individual country law if it doesn't interfere with EU law.
This is the normal way...
BUT on top of that there is exeption as for exemple in country that is not EU but use EU law as a service from EU country with local law or not (mainly small fiscal paradise), and from country that is in EU but doesn't want to use some of EU law.
So each law goes from country to EU and back (and i don't event talk about burocratie...).
At the end there is million of EU wasted each year just to have this movement of information.
Right now we are very far from the "ideal" solution presented at start. We are more like in Athena before the lost against Sparta.
The EU Law is the main thing and on top of that there is individual country law if it doesn't interfere with EU law.
This is the normal way...
BUT on top of that there is exeption as for exemple in country that is not EU but use EU law as a service from EU country with local law or not (mainly small fiscal paradise), and from country that is in EU but doesn't want to use some of EU law.
So each law goes from country to EU and back (and i don't event talk about burocratie...).
At the end there is million of EU wasted each year just to have this movement of information.
Right now we are very far from the "ideal" solution presented at start. We are more like in Athena before the lost against Sparta.
Size_Mick
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#5638003 Posted on: 02/11/2019 02:52 AM
Well, hey, at least it's not "Ottopilot"
Well, hey, at least it's not "Ottopilot"
gx-x
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#5638170 Posted on: 02/11/2019 03:24 PM
Autonomous driving on vehicles is not allowed in EU. Not just for Tesla, for everyone. One of the reasons BWM, Audi or Merc dont have autonomous driving mode.
PS. It's still in the test phase, and even there, a driver must not let go of the wheel.
Autonomous driving on vehicles is not allowed in EU. Not just for Tesla, for everyone. One of the reasons BWM, Audi or Merc dont have autonomous driving mode.
PS. It's still in the test phase, and even there, a driver must not let go of the wheel.
Size_Mick
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#5638202 Posted on: 02/11/2019 04:21 PM
Seriously, they should get rid of autopilot entirely. The thing is, it has to be one or the other: full control by the driver, or full control by the computer. Anything in between is just asking for trouble. It makes me question the wisdom of the people over at Tesla who thought it would be a pretty neat idea.
Seriously, they should get rid of autopilot entirely. The thing is, it has to be one or the other: full control by the driver, or full control by the computer. Anything in between is just asking for trouble. It makes me question the wisdom of the people over at Tesla who thought it would be a pretty neat idea.
Denial
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#5638208 Posted on: 02/11/2019 04:31 PM
The stats show that turning on Autopilot, even in it's infancy, reduced total number of traffic fatalities per mile on the Model S. That's similar to MobilEye's stats for AEB and similar systems. While you get a moron every once in a while sleeping at the wheel with autopilot on, overall it's doing far more good than harm.
I think there should be some kind of regulatory body governing it's use - but so far, if correctly implemented, it seems fine.
Seriously, they should get rid of autopilot entirely. The thing is, it has to be one or the other: full control by the driver, or full control by the computer. Anything in between is just asking for trouble. It makes me question the wisdom of the people over at Tesla who thought it would be a pretty neat idea.
The stats show that turning on Autopilot, even in it's infancy, reduced total number of traffic fatalities per mile on the Model S. That's similar to MobilEye's stats for AEB and similar systems. While you get a moron every once in a while sleeping at the wheel with autopilot on, overall it's doing far more good than harm.
I think there should be some kind of regulatory body governing it's use - but so far, if correctly implemented, it seems fine.
sykozis
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#5638210 Posted on: 02/11/2019 04:40 PM
Neither of your solutions, presents the best possible solution. Drivers become distracted, resulting in accidents. Computers can malfunction, resulting in accidents. There has to be a middle ground for safety reasons. The driver has to be able to take control of the vehicle in the event of a malfunction. If we program the autonomous system to shutdown the vehicle in the event of a malfunction, we're risking the lives of others on the road. So, we either increase the cost of vehicles by adding additional "Features" so every vehicle can communicate with every other vehicle, street sign, road marking, etc....or we go for the middle ground and allow "part time" systems.
Seriously, they should get rid of autopilot entirely. The thing is, it has to be one or the other: full control by the driver, or full control by the computer. Anything in between is just asking for trouble. It makes me question the wisdom of the people over at Tesla who thought it would be a pretty neat idea.
Neither of your solutions, presents the best possible solution. Drivers become distracted, resulting in accidents. Computers can malfunction, resulting in accidents. There has to be a middle ground for safety reasons. The driver has to be able to take control of the vehicle in the event of a malfunction. If we program the autonomous system to shutdown the vehicle in the event of a malfunction, we're risking the lives of others on the road. So, we either increase the cost of vehicles by adding additional "Features" so every vehicle can communicate with every other vehicle, street sign, road marking, etc....or we go for the middle ground and allow "part time" systems.
Dribble
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#5638247 Posted on: 02/11/2019 05:48 PM
That doesn't work. A human can only stay focused only if they are in control (i.e. driving). If the computer is driving then most human's just can't pay close attention for any amount of time. Hence if the computer goes wrong the car will crash before the human takes over. You can do it the other way around - human drives, computer can take over in an emergency, which is what a number of cars have had for years (e.g. Volvo famously has a record of zero pedestrian deaths in the XC90 since 2002 due to it's hazard detection technology).
Imo - the problem is tesla called it auto pilot which suggests (to most people other then airline pilots) it's going to drive you. In fact it's just a glorified hazard detection/lane assist such as is available in a number of makes of car. It is a long way from being a true autonomous vehicle. If they had just called it super lane assist or something then it would have been fine in Europe.
Neither of your solutions, presents the best possible solution. Drivers become distracted, resulting in accidents. Computers can malfunction, resulting in accidents. There has to be a middle ground for safety reasons. The driver has to be able to take control of the vehicle in the event of a malfunction. If we program the autonomous system to shutdown the vehicle in the event of a malfunction, we're risking the lives of others on the road. So, we either increase the cost of vehicles by adding additional "Features" so every vehicle can communicate with every other vehicle, street sign, road marking, etc....or we go for the middle ground and allow "part time" systems.
That doesn't work. A human can only stay focused only if they are in control (i.e. driving). If the computer is driving then most human's just can't pay close attention for any amount of time. Hence if the computer goes wrong the car will crash before the human takes over. You can do it the other way around - human drives, computer can take over in an emergency, which is what a number of cars have had for years (e.g. Volvo famously has a record of zero pedestrian deaths in the XC90 since 2002 due to it's hazard detection technology).
Imo - the problem is tesla called it auto pilot which suggests (to most people other then airline pilots) it's going to drive you. In fact it's just a glorified hazard detection/lane assist such as is available in a number of makes of car. It is a long way from being a true autonomous vehicle. If they had just called it super lane assist or something then it would have been fine in Europe.
gx-x
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#5638252 Posted on: 02/11/2019 06:05 PM
No it wouldn't. New (2019) Audi A8 has lane assist and it's disabled because it's against the rules to use it.
No it wouldn't. New (2019) Audi A8 has lane assist and it's disabled because it's against the rules to use it.
Dribble
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#5638270 Posted on: 02/11/2019 06:34 PM
There are level's 1-5 of autonomy, going from something at 1 to fully self driving at 5, 4 is self driving in certain area's, e.g. you could get urban taxi's at level 4. Tesla autopilot is level 2 exactly the same as volvo's, merc's, etc which are all enabled. As I understand it the Audi A8 is level 3 which Europe doesn't have regs for so it works at level 2 right now, it's not disabled.
Level's 1-3 have the driver in control, and imo level 3 is the most dodgy as it is the one the seems most prone to go wrong in that it's the classic the case of what I said above where the car seems to drive itself but in fact the human is still meant to be in control and respond in a fraction of a second if the computer goes wrong.
No it wouldn't. New (2019) Audi A8 has lane assist and it's disabled because it's against the rules to use it.
There are level's 1-5 of autonomy, going from something at 1 to fully self driving at 5, 4 is self driving in certain area's, e.g. you could get urban taxi's at level 4. Tesla autopilot is level 2 exactly the same as volvo's, merc's, etc which are all enabled. As I understand it the Audi A8 is level 3 which Europe doesn't have regs for so it works at level 2 right now, it's not disabled.
Level's 1-3 have the driver in control, and imo level 3 is the most dodgy as it is the one the seems most prone to go wrong in that it's the classic the case of what I said above where the car seems to drive itself but in fact the human is still meant to be in control and respond in a fraction of a second if the computer goes wrong.
gx-x
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#5638341 Posted on: 02/11/2019 10:23 PM
I am no expert, all I know, in Europe (EU), even for testing (authorized) driver must keep hands on steering wheel at all times. Watched the Audi A8 2019 review, dude said it has everything, but disabled bcs EU law.
Keeping hands on steering wheel defies the purpose of autonomous driving. Especially in USA traffic jams where you should be able to just sit back, relax and let the AI move 2m by 2m in straight line for hours...
I am no expert, all I know, in Europe (EU), even for testing (authorized) driver must keep hands on steering wheel at all times. Watched the Audi A8 2019 review, dude said it has everything, but disabled bcs EU law.
Keeping hands on steering wheel defies the purpose of autonomous driving. Especially in USA traffic jams where you should be able to just sit back, relax and let the AI move 2m by 2m in straight line for hours...
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Small typo at the end of the first paragraph.