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AMD Ryzen 3000: New Block diagram about PCIe 4.0 on Matisse and X570 chipset
Another block diagram of a more official nature leaked, this one holds the X570 chipset breakdown alongside the specs and Ryzen 3000. It's clear already that Ryzen 3000 CPUs (Matisse) and the X570 chipset will support PCIe 4.0. The new diagram once again confirms that the processor will provide a total of 24 PCIe 4.0 lanes.
The new slide breaks down everything related to the IO capabilities of the new AMD platform around Ryzen 3000, it's also a far more official looking block diagram. Now, it can not be completely ruled out that this is a fake, I simply do not expect it to be.
Ryzen 3000 (Codename Matisse) delivers 24 lanes PCIe 4.0
According to a confidential presentation titled " AMD 500-Series Chipset Engineering Interlock " dated May 2019 Ryzen 3000 as CPU (codenamed Matisse) will have a total of 24 PCIe Gen4 lanes. Four of them are used for the interconnect to the X570 chipset, leaving 20 laned Gen 4.0 for other utilization. As expected, 16 lanes (PCIe x16) are intended for graphics cards that are connected as x16 or twice x8 once. One x8 link would offer PCIe 3.0 x16 like bandwidth. Four more PCIe lanes from the CPU are designed for fast storage such as NVMe SSDs. In addition, Ryzen 3000 provides four USB 3.1 Gen 2. A dual-channel memory controller is also no surprise.
When we move to the X570 chipset, the PCIe Gen 4.0 lanes are lines, but not so abundantly clear to follow as everything can be re-routed and shared. For example, PCIe slots, M.2 SSDs, LAN, card readers or WiFi modules are to be connected via the new interface standard. The configuration depends on the respective motherboard.
Ryzen 3000 CPU and X570 chipset (Image: HKEPC)
Please do keep in mind that only Ryzen 3000 (Zen2) will open up X570 to the CPU at PCIe 4.0 x4. If a Ryzen 3000 of the Picasso family, as an APU based on older architecture, are used, the chipset connection will be made with PCIe 3.0. The X570 PCH (Platform Controller Hub) is also credited with an indefinite number of USB ports of USB 3.1 and USB 2.0 and SATA for HDD / SSD.
Numerous X570 motherboards from AMD's partners will be officially unveiled at Computex 2019 next week , no doubt about it. The board partners have been flooding their social networks for weeks with more or less concrete references to the new generation. One detail stands out: All previously unveiled X570 motherboards have a fan for chipset cooling . Whether AMD will officially introduce the Matisse CPUs at Computex remains to be seen. In any case, they will not come onto the market at the end of May, because officially the date is Q3 2019, unofficially July is expected for the market launch.
MSI X570 Gaming Pro Carbon and Plus for AMD Ryzen 3000 Leak - 05/17/2019 08:12 PM
Photos have laked from MSI's upcoming X570 gaming motherboards. This involves the X570 Gaming Pro Carbon and the X570 Gaming Plus. Once again the motherboards have an active fan on board on top of th...
Gigabyte Announces BIOS Updates For Next Gen. AMD Ryzen CPUs - 05/17/2019 08:23 AM
Gigabyte has released BIOS updates for X470 and B450 AMD motherboards. With a simple update of the BIOS, users will be able to fully harness full support for next gen. AMD Ryzen processors. BIOS upda...
AMD Ryzen 9 3800X, Ryzen 7 3700X, Ryzen 5 3600X Spotted in Online Stores? - 05/03/2019 12:54 PM
Before we begin, please do take this info with a chunk of salt the size of an iceberg, and then read on. In a Vietnamese and Turkish webshop, some interesting names popped up, yes the AMD Ryzen 9 380...
ASRock seems to support new AMD Ryzen 3000 chips for its A320 motherboards - 04/30/2019 06:33 PM
If you just had a peek at the ASUS Ryzen 3000 compatibility list you will have noticed that A320 motherboards are not updated for compatibility. ASRock however also updated their support pages and it...
AMD Ryzen 2700X 50th Anniversary Edition (Updated) - 04/22/2019 08:42 AM
AMD is preparing for the festivities of their celebration 50th anniversary beginning with a Ryzen 2700x 50th-anniversary edition to be released on May 1st , 2019....
nevcairiel
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#5672208 Posted on: 05/23/2019 11:13 AM
Such a controller that can split x2 4.0 into x4 3.0 would probably be very expensive, and not likely to be present.
But the 4 M.2 PCIe lanes from the CPU can be used as one for one x4 device as well, it doesn't have to be split into 2x x2.
I thought the 40 lanes reported the other week seemed excessive. I don't like the look of the m.2 configuration unless the 2xPCIe4 can be effectively split into 4xPCIe3, Otherwise current cards would probably end up at 2xPCIe3 speed?
Such a controller that can split x2 4.0 into x4 3.0 would probably be very expensive, and not likely to be present.
But the 4 M.2 PCIe lanes from the CPU can be used as one for one x4 device as well, it doesn't have to be split into 2x x2.
Astyanax
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#5672211 Posted on: 05/23/2019 11:20 AM
such a controller can be had for a few dollars.
such a controller can be had for a few dollars.
Stairmand
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#5672220 Posted on: 05/23/2019 11:34 AM
Such a controller that can split x2 4.0 into x4 3.0 would probably be very expensive, and not likely to be present.
But the 4 M.2 PCIe lanes from the CPU can be used as one for one x4 device as well, it doesn't have to be split into 2x x2.
Just having 1 4xPCIe M.2 slot would be a disappointing mistake. Prices have dropped to the point where having a 250GB Boot and 2TB second nvme drive are realistic options. Certainly what i would buy in my next setup.
Such a controller that can split x2 4.0 into x4 3.0 would probably be very expensive, and not likely to be present.
But the 4 M.2 PCIe lanes from the CPU can be used as one for one x4 device as well, it doesn't have to be split into 2x x2.
Just having 1 4xPCIe M.2 slot would be a disappointing mistake. Prices have dropped to the point where having a 250GB Boot and 2TB second nvme drive are realistic options. Certainly what i would buy in my next setup.
nevcairiel
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#5672225 Posted on: 05/23/2019 11:45 AM
Just like any previous boards and chipsets, the second would be through the chipset.
Just having 1 4xPCIe M.2 slot would be a disappointing mistake. Prices have dropped to the point where having a 250GB Boot and 2TB second nvme drive are realistic options. Certainly what i would buy in my next setup.
Just like any previous boards and chipsets, the second would be through the chipset.
DmitryKo
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#5672226 Posted on: 05/23/2019 11:50 AM
Sure, it's up to motherboard manufacturers to decide how they would trace the on-die PCIe/SATA lanes.
I'd think most of them would map these PCIe 4.0 x4 lanes to a single M-key M.2 slot.
No, it's not expensive.
Signal downconversion is what the X470 actually did - it only provided PCIe 2.0 lanes for its M.2/PCIe/controller connections, and most boards had quite slow PCIe 2.0 x2 for the secondary M.2 slot, though a few offered PCIe 2.0 x4.
That's 1/4 or 1/2 of the available PCIe 3.0 x4 bandwidth from the X470 PCH to the CPU.
I don't like the look of the m.2 configuration unless the 2xPCIe4 can be effectively split into 4xPCIe3
the 4 M.2 PCIe lanes from the CPU can be used as one for one x4 device as well, it doesn't have to be split into 2x x2.
Sure, it's up to motherboard manufacturers to decide how they would trace the on-die PCIe/SATA lanes.
I'd think most of them would map these PCIe 4.0 x4 lanes to a single M-key M.2 slot.
Such a controller that can split x2 4.0 into x4 3.0 would probably be very expensive, and not likely to be present.
No, it's not expensive.
Signal downconversion is what the X470 actually did - it only provided PCIe 2.0 lanes for its M.2/PCIe/controller connections, and most boards had quite slow PCIe 2.0 x2 for the secondary M.2 slot, though a few offered PCIe 2.0 x4.
That's 1/4 or 1/2 of the available PCIe 3.0 x4 bandwidth from the X470 PCH to the CPU.
nevcairiel
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#5672232 Posted on: 05/23/2019 12:03 PM
No, it's not expensive.
Signal downconversion is what the X470 actually did - it only provided PCIe 2.0 lanes for its M.2/PCIe/controller connections, and most boards had quite slow PCIe 2.0 x2 for the secondary M.2 slot, though a few offered PCIe 2.0 x4.
That's 1/4 or 1/2 of the available PCIe 3.0 x4 bandwidth from the X470 PCH to the CPU.
This was integrated into the chipset, which has a PCIe hub controller anway, and not offered for the CPU lanes (which he was requesting), which are often connected directly without further controller in between.
Additionally, PCIe 3.0 and 2.0 are old and known technology, 4.0 is new, so any such hardware can be expected to be more expensive.
Personally, for future proofing, I would want my CPU 4x lanes connected directly to a PCIe 4.0 x4 M.2 slot, so that I can run a fast PCIe 4.0 NVMe drive in there in the future.
No, it's not expensive.
Signal downconversion is what the X470 actually did - it only provided PCIe 2.0 lanes for its M.2/PCIe/controller connections, and most boards had quite slow PCIe 2.0 x2 for the secondary M.2 slot, though a few offered PCIe 2.0 x4.
That's 1/4 or 1/2 of the available PCIe 3.0 x4 bandwidth from the X470 PCH to the CPU.
This was integrated into the chipset, which has a PCIe hub controller anway, and not offered for the CPU lanes (which he was requesting), which are often connected directly without further controller in between.
Additionally, PCIe 3.0 and 2.0 are old and known technology, 4.0 is new, so any such hardware can be expected to be more expensive.
Personally, for future proofing, I would want my CPU 4x lanes connected directly to a PCIe 4.0 x4 M.2 slot, so that I can run a fast PCIe 4.0 NVMe drive in there in the future.
Ricardo
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#5672264 Posted on: 05/23/2019 01:29 PM
Aren't current PCIe lanes plenty for most nvme drivers? I mean, 2x PCIe 4 lanes should equal a 4x PCIe 3, and isn't that enough for 99% of the cases?
Future proof is definetly a thing, but let's not put the cart ahead of the horses, okay?
Aren't current PCIe lanes plenty for most nvme drivers? I mean, 2x PCIe 4 lanes should equal a 4x PCIe 3, and isn't that enough for 99% of the cases?
Future proof is definetly a thing, but let's not put the cart ahead of the horses, okay?
Stairmand
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#5672284 Posted on: 05/23/2019 02:25 PM
Yes 2 x PCIe 4 is the same speed as 4xPCIe 3, however all current SSDs are PCIe 3 only, if they only have access to 2 lanes they will be at PCIe 3 speed limiting performance. Many current drives already need all 4 lanes.
Unless of course board manufactures have only one nvme compatible socket and use all 4 lanes. Or come up with a solution using pcie switches etc.
I guess we will se next week. I suspect it won't be long before we see PCIe4 SSDs go past the 4000MB/s speed.
Yes 2 x PCIe 4 is the same speed as 4xPCIe 3, however all current SSDs are PCIe 3 only, if they only have access to 2 lanes they will be at PCIe 3 speed limiting performance. Many current drives already need all 4 lanes.
Unless of course board manufactures have only one nvme compatible socket and use all 4 lanes. Or come up with a solution using pcie switches etc.
I guess we will se next week. I suspect it won't be long before we see PCIe4 SSDs go past the 4000MB/s speed.
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#5672286 Posted on: 05/23/2019 02:28 PM
PCI-E3 parts will benefit from gen 4 controllers in ways just gen 2 parts benefitted from gen 3 controllers.
Thats not the point of why they have introduced gen 4 though.
being able to reduce the lane count for nvme's and not losing performance is a reason why.
PCI-E3 parts will benefit from gen 4 controllers in ways just gen 2 parts benefitted from gen 3 controllers.
Thats not the point of why they have introduced gen 4 though.
being able to reduce the lane count for nvme's and not losing performance is a reason why.
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#5672308 Posted on: 05/23/2019 03:41 PM
In the diagram there are many options for different builds.
MSI is showing a Pro Carbon motherboard where I can read "LIGHTNING Gen4 m.2" written in it's shield, so I assume it will be 4x PCIe 4 in this model.
Anyway, we'll know the next week
In the diagram there are many options for different builds.
MSI is showing a Pro Carbon motherboard where I can read "LIGHTNING Gen4 m.2" written in it's shield, so I assume it will be 4x PCIe 4 in this model.
Anyway, we'll know the next week
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#5672364 Posted on: 05/23/2019 05:35 PM
The 40 lanes was just a misreading of the leak and a lack of comprehension about how chipsets work. It was never going to be 40 lanes, that's ridiculous. The current Ryzen CPUs with, for example, X470, are 24 PCie 3.0 lanes: 16x for GPU, 4x dedicated to M.2, 4x upstream for the chipset. The chipset itself is 8x PCIe 2.0 downstream. The X570 is double this - 24x PCIe 4.0 lanes - with 16x, 4x, 4x, with an unknown amount/speed for downstream, although anticipated is 16x PCIe 4.0. For comparison, Z370/390 is only 20 PCie 3.0 lanes (16x GPU, 4x DMI 3.0), the 24x downstream over chipset (16x engaged at once) are just multiplexed. To go back to the original leak: it was not saying lanes for each category, in fact it clearly said x4 Gen4 for uplink (chipset upstream) with 16 for GPU (PCIe: 8 + 4 + 4 means up to 3 GPUs with bifurcation), it was misread as I said. And the new diagram simply shows 4x PCIe 4.0 coming from CPU for SATA/NVMe in addition to SATA/NVMe over the chipset (similar to the 4x PCIe 3.0 on X470 for a primary M.2). So pretty straightforward and as expected, actually.
To answer the M.2 question: no, you can switch 2x PCIe 4.0 into 4x PCIe 3.0. Many existing boards switch 4x PCIe 2.0 into 2x PCIe 3.0 for M.2, for example. I suspect also that in some cases 4x PCIe 4.0 will be supported which will regress to 4x PCIe 3.0 if the drive is 3.0.
I thought the 40 lanes reported the other week seemed excessive. I don't like the look of the m.2 configuration unless the 2xPCIe4 can be effectively split into 4xPCIe3, Otherwise current cards would probably end up at 2xPCIe3 speed?
The 40 lanes was just a misreading of the leak and a lack of comprehension about how chipsets work. It was never going to be 40 lanes, that's ridiculous. The current Ryzen CPUs with, for example, X470, are 24 PCie 3.0 lanes: 16x for GPU, 4x dedicated to M.2, 4x upstream for the chipset. The chipset itself is 8x PCIe 2.0 downstream. The X570 is double this - 24x PCIe 4.0 lanes - with 16x, 4x, 4x, with an unknown amount/speed for downstream, although anticipated is 16x PCIe 4.0. For comparison, Z370/390 is only 20 PCie 3.0 lanes (16x GPU, 4x DMI 3.0), the 24x downstream over chipset (16x engaged at once) are just multiplexed. To go back to the original leak: it was not saying lanes for each category, in fact it clearly said x4 Gen4 for uplink (chipset upstream) with 16 for GPU (PCIe: 8 + 4 + 4 means up to 3 GPUs with bifurcation), it was misread as I said. And the new diagram simply shows 4x PCIe 4.0 coming from CPU for SATA/NVMe in addition to SATA/NVMe over the chipset (similar to the 4x PCIe 3.0 on X470 for a primary M.2). So pretty straightforward and as expected, actually.
To answer the M.2 question: no, you can switch 2x PCIe 4.0 into 4x PCIe 3.0. Many existing boards switch 4x PCIe 2.0 into 2x PCIe 3.0 for M.2, for example. I suspect also that in some cases 4x PCIe 4.0 will be supported which will regress to 4x PCIe 3.0 if the drive is 3.0.
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#5672367 Posted on: 05/23/2019 05:42 PM
The Phison E16 drives will hit 5000/4400 MB/s R/W. One I know of already is the Gigabyte Aorus Gen4 NVMe.
I suspect it won't be long before we see PCIe4 SSDs go past the 4000MB/s speed.
The Phison E16 drives will hit 5000/4400 MB/s R/W. One I know of already is the Gigabyte Aorus Gen4 NVMe.
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#5672601 Posted on: 05/24/2019 09:22 AM
oh now makes sense the need for the fan on that south bridge. It will probably kick in if you are using a config on which you are maxing out the controller with Gen3 configs like using all the PCIe lanes.
oh now makes sense the need for the fan on that south bridge. It will probably kick in if you are using a config on which you are maxing out the controller with Gen3 configs like using all the PCIe lanes.
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#5672614 Posted on: 05/24/2019 09:36 AM
Except unlike previous boards that second slot on the chipset won't be bottlenecked by the link between the chipset and CPU. An x4 link can run a pcie 3.x x4 SSD at full speed while using the USB and networking without saturating the bus, unlike current Intel and AMD desktop boards.
It also will not be long before someone builds a bridge board that will run 4 pcie 3.x x4 SSDs at full speed in the second x8 video card slot and ones that will run x2 SSDs in the x1 slots.
In the end, though, there are still almost zero use cases when a pcie SSD actually shaves more than a minute or two off an entire day's work vs a SATA one, so the dream of >6k transfers on pcie 4.x is in the end pretty moot for the foreseeable future.
Just like any previous boards and chipsets, the second would be through the chipset.
Except unlike previous boards that second slot on the chipset won't be bottlenecked by the link between the chipset and CPU. An x4 link can run a pcie 3.x x4 SSD at full speed while using the USB and networking without saturating the bus, unlike current Intel and AMD desktop boards.
It also will not be long before someone builds a bridge board that will run 4 pcie 3.x x4 SSDs at full speed in the second x8 video card slot and ones that will run x2 SSDs in the x1 slots.
In the end, though, there are still almost zero use cases when a pcie SSD actually shaves more than a minute or two off an entire day's work vs a SATA one, so the dream of >6k transfers on pcie 4.x is in the end pretty moot for the foreseeable future.
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I thought the 40 lanes reported the other week seemed excessive. I don't like the look of the m.2 configuration unless the 2xPCIe4 can be effectively split into 4xPCIe3, Otherwise current cards would probably end up at 2xPCIe3 speed?