Andy Watson:

How is taking 30% protecting their customers? Protecting Apple's profits that resting in an account in Dublin ....

That money was just resting in my account.

I heard about this last night that Epic is doing this. I am not sure who to side with here because Epic is NO different than Google or Apple in terms of pulling shady BS.

Kool64:

Personally I don't give a rats hiney about Apples closed ecosystem because if I really wanted to I could jail break my phone. I have an old Macbook Pro that's never seen Mac OS booted for more than 20 minutes(to install boot camp). I won't ever buy a Mac again as I got it on employee discount(used to work for apple care lol) and being a hardcore PC gamer a Mac has never suited me. I do however care about the shady stuff Epic has been pulling not forgetting about their "EGS exclusive" and what not.

I am with you 100% here Epic has pulled a lot of shady stuff over time. They claim that Apple is anti-consumer when they themselves is the very same. Pot calling the Kettle black. Also the 11th hr of getting Metro Exodus pulled off of the Steam Store as an EGS exclusive is about as shady as and anti-consumer as you can get. I was very surprised that Valve and Steam didn't try to sue the devs of Metro Exodus and Epic over that.

vbetts:

It's very ironic that the same company people were calling "anti-competitive" just a year ago, is now pointing the finger at Apple and calling them anti-competitive. Now I'm not saying Apple is right in what they want in a cut of profits, but there are a couple factors to look at. - Apple has given Epic plenty of screen time and support as a partner for years now, including them in Keynotes and presentations and such. Even considering Epic is one of the top developers for iOS, this is a pretty shitty way for Epic to treat them. - 30% cut seems high, but also think that Apple gave a lot of headroom and front page space for Epic and Fortnite on all of their platforms. Let's be real, 30% cut is not hurting Epic at all. Fortnite prints money on every platform its on. - Gonna compare my family life to this situation. Epic broke Apple's own TOS on purpose, knowing the course of action they were going to take and then complained about it. They're going to court, because they knowingly and willingly went against Apple's TOS they agreed to when they became a developer for iOS and wanted use of the App Store. That's like me hitting my brother on purpose in front of my dad, and then complaining and getting mad I got in trouble. This is a very backhanded and childish way to get what you want. To me it seems like Epic is doing this to try to gain favor with the public and tech communities. Think about it, Epic did the same thing in Google's Play Store, yet no one is ranting or raving about that. Generally in the tech community, the cool thing to do is to hate on Apple, be against Apple, just be the opposite of Apple.

In the defense of Android as an OS how users were able to install the game before it was even in the play store is users are able to side load the game while Apple without the App Store if you haven't installed it previously you cannot install it period. I think that is one of the reasons why Google is somewhat of a pass. As far as removal of the game goes. But in terms of Google doing the same thing as Apple because of the Payment options Google should get the same treatment as Apple.

Fender178:

I am with you 100% here Epic has pulled a lot of shady stuff over time. They claim that Apple is anti-consumer when they themselves is the very same. Pot calling the Kettle black. Also the 11th hr of getting Metro Exodus pulled off of the Steam Store as an EGS exclusive is about as shady as and anti-consumer as you can get. I was very surprised that Valve and Steam didn't try to sue the devs of Metro Exodus and Epic over that.

Indeed their sneaky underhanded dealings (bribery) with poaching Steam sales is what has turned me off the most. Sadly I am partially hostage to Epic because practically every game I play is o the UE engine 🙁.

Fender178:

I heard about this last night that Epic is doing this. I am not sure who to side with here because Epic is NO different than Google or Apple in terms of pulling shady BS. I am with you 100% here Epic has pulled a lot of shady stuff over time. They claim that Apple is anti-consumer when they themselves is the very same. Pot calling the Kettle black. Also the 11th hr of getting Metro Exodus pulled off of the Steam Store as an EGS exclusive is about as shady as and anti-consumer as you can get. I was very surprised that Valve and Steam didn't try to sue the devs of Metro Exodus and Epic over that. In the defense of Android as an OS how users were able to install the game before it was even in the play store is users are able to side load the game while Apple without the App Store if you haven't installed it previously you cannot install it period. I think that is one of the reasons why Google is somewhat of a pass. As far as removal of the game goes. But in terms of Google doing the same thing as Apple because of the Payment options Google should get the same treatment as Apple.

Hard to follow your writing but I get your point here.

I'm surprised nobody has brought up the fact that Apple's customers are being screwed over by this too. There are people who paid for a product they still want and are denied access to it. They can't complain to Epyc for a problem outside of their control. Most people who are apart of Apple's ecosystem refuse to leave it, and Apple knows this. Apple must be getting something out of this retaliation because this power-play is otherwise going to hurt them more than help.

schmidtbag:

I'm surprised nobody has brought up the fact that Apple's customers are being screwed over by this too. There are people who paid for a product they still want and are denied access to it. They can't complain to Epyc for a problem outside of their control. Most people who are apart of Apple's ecosystem refuse to leave it, and Apple knows this. Apple must be getting something out of this retaliation because this power-play is otherwise going to hurt them more than help.

Very good point as well. Apple is indeed shooting themselves in the foot.

Personally I don't really care about this "tabloid trial", the one to come with EU against Apple for their anti-competitive practice on the App store look to be far more interesting...and far more dangerous for the rotten fruit company...

schmidtbag:

I'm surprised nobody has brought up the fact that Apple's customers are being screwed over by this too. There are people who paid for a product they still want and are denied access to it. They can't complain to Epyc for a problem outside of their control. Most people who are apart of Apple's ecosystem refuse to leave it, and Apple knows this. Apple must be getting something out of this retaliation because this power-play is otherwise going to hurt them more than help.

Most of their customers are lemmings, not all... but most.

emperorsfist:

One could also argue that EPIC pulled the Fortnite currency shtick to weasel themselves around what they agreed to in the EULA (so, percentage for Apple) and have willingly breached that way (which, let's face it, is what was the intention).

Well yeah, but in that case EULA is inherently anticopmetitive and probably outright illegal, because it regulates sales that happen outside of the apple platform. There is a reason why EULA is just a piece of paper anywhere in EU, but even US law recognizes that it is basically unfair agreement, it's just that judges have ruled so far that even though it is one sided agreement that you can't even negotiate, you are still free to enter such agreement. Well, this lawsuit could change that because it is an abuse of what is basically monopoly. But as I've said it's going to be interesting, because you never know with lawsuits.

schmidtbag:

Most people who are apart of Apple's ecosystem refuse to leave it, and Apple knows this.

And thats the reason why looking closely at how Apple has "regulated" their system is very much a good thing. They get people in and then dictate their every move.

emperorsfist:

If they don't like the EULA that they've had to agree to, then they should pull out, plain and simple.

Maybe I am wrong but EULA's have literally zero legal binding, at least here in the EU, dunno about the US

vbetts:

It's very ironic that the same company people were calling "anti-competitive" just a year ago, is now pointing the finger at Apple and calling them anti-competitive. Now I'm not saying Apple is right in what they want in a cut of profits, but there are a couple factors to look at. - Apple has given Epic plenty of screen time and support as a partner for years now, including them in Keynotes and presentations and such. Even considering Epic is one of the top developers for iOS, this is a pretty shitty way for Epic to treat them. - 30% cut seems high, but also think that Apple gave a lot of headroom and front page space for Epic and Fortnite on all of their platforms. Let's be real, 30% cut is not hurting Epic at all. Fortnite prints money on every platform its on

Yes because Apple have given Epic this screen time purely out of the goodness of their heart, pure altruism on their part right? They certainly wouldn't want their headline products to be associated with one of the most popular games on the planet because having more people playing that horrendously popular game on their platform will never have made them huge sums of money?

- Gonna compare my family life to this situation. Epic broke Apple's own TOS on purpose, knowing the course of action they were going to take and then complained about it. They're going to court, because they knowingly and willingly went against Apple's TOS they agreed to when they became a developer for iOS and wanted use of the App Store.

I wouldn't say wanted to use it, I would say they have literally no option which as little as this being the truth is sort of the point Epic is trying to make (PS I know it's really about the vast sums of cash that Apple get for doing literally f*ck all but somewhere in all this their is the entire closed no option eco-system that you are forced to use and forced to pay if you want to use it.)

To me it seems like Epic is doing this to try to gain favor with the public and tech communities. Think about it, Epic did the same thing in Google's Play Store, yet no one is ranting or raving about that. Generally in the tech community, the cool thing to do is to hate on Apple, be against Apple, just be the opposite of Apple.

Maybe I am wrong but don't Android devices allow users who are least tech savvy the ability to side load software and thus completely avoid the Play Store while Apple devices don't? End of the day it comes down to a simple situation Epic do all the work when it comes to Fortnite while as far as I can see Apple do nothing, not a god damn thing. The only thing they do is provide a little server side load that allows users to download a game that is completely free. Once the player is in the game the entire work load is being done by Epics systems including their in game money. So why should Apple take a chunk of money for doing nothing just because they happen to have locked their eco system down tighter than a Chaffin's chuff? As I said in the other post about this it's really fun to watch two huge money hungry morally bankrupt companies argue about who's morals are actually right.

I'm not sure I want to pick a side. Epic was being jerks trying to make money outside of Apples rules which Epic agreed to already and Apple are being jerks by complete banishment. Epic has the same model as Apple for their store albeit they only take 12% not 30% but that is splitting hairs. I say let them fight it out Ill go do something else.

JamesSneed:

I'm not sure I want to pick a side.

Don't need to, just sit back and watch it as entertainment.

If there wouldnt be nice Unreal engine, which was the start of Epics business, i would wish both companies total destruction of each other. Apple closed ecosystem is sick.. as lots of their not US customers with is buying their products as new age jewelry. In theory Microsoft could make WIndows 11, stop support Windows 10 and make same thing, but they wouldnt do such evil thing as Apple. Its good that Apple market share is getting down, that rational arguments are slowly getting people to use less and less Apple computers and phones, tables. It seems that with new era of ARM migration and other decision Apple maybe would be able to kill itself.

JamesSneed:

I'm not sure I want to pick a side. Epic was being jerks trying to make money outside of Apples rules which Epic agreed to already and Apple are being jerks by complete banishment. Epic has the same model as Apple for their store albeit they only take 12% not 30% but that is splitting hairs. I say let them fight it out Ill go do something else.

Well actually no Epic does not have the same model for their store, perhaps they want that same model but currently EGS is NOT the only place you can buy games from, you can literally by them for thousands of other locations and at least 5 if not 6 different DDS which when it comes to Apple devices you have one and only one choice buy it from the Apple store or don't buy it at all.

haste:

And here we go again. Yet another PR stunt from Epic. Besides HW sales, IAPs are one of Apple's main sources of income. It doesn't matter how big is Fortnite or Epic these days, there are hundreds of billions at stake that Apple would loose if developers could use other payment methods for their IAPs. Apple will never revoke this rule and even Epic can't do sh*t about it. The same goes for Google/GooglePlay.

You don't have to use google play store on android at all and you can install any application you have downloaded from anywhere without it. Yes you are right that Apple stands to lose the most here. However, by trying to regulate the sales of third parties outside of their platform, they do abuse their dominant market position and there could be a case to be made in court about it.

cryohellinc:

Except it won't.

And if Epic wins, what would you say then ? Sage of the future.

nevcairiel:

No matter his motivations, I hope he wins. Apples closed ecosystem is impeding developers and users alike, and is a monopoly in its own right. Setting a clear precedent for this sort of system requiring to be fair would go a long way.

I have to disagree, contracts are there for a reason. No one forces Epic to develop for the platform, that's the choice of Epic. If they can't stick to terms and conditions then why should they have the right to develop for the platform that Apple have built? I think it's an egotisitcal PR stunt from a company that has quite frankly become greedier than Activision at this point. Apple are under no obligation to cater to Epic or Apples own users for that matter. If people like the product, people will buy the product. That doesn't mean they are entitled to what is or is not available on the product. Apple have made this abundantly clear over the last decade. It's their house, if you don't like it; Get out of their house lol

Backstabak:

You don't have to use google play store on android at all and you can install any application you have downloaded from anywhere without it. Yes you are right that Apple stands to lose the most here. However, by trying to regulate the sales of third parties outside of their platform, they do abuse their dominant market position and there could be a case to be made in court about it.

It could be argued that Apple are under no requirement to provide an App Store period. They could close it down with appropriate notice. The developers and the IAP fees that are applied are applied for both a security measure and for services rendered. They provide a service. In a world where we are all looking to be paid for services, it's not unreasonable (even with a large market share) to expect recompence for services rendered. For that and that reason alone, this would be thrown out of court. What they could push for is opening of choice as to which app store people can download from and Apple could be forced to allow other app stores to function on their devices (Like a Google Play store for iOS that runs iOS applications for example). Apple are under no wrong doing for making a profit from a closed garden ecosystem. But they could be seen as wrong doing by limited the stores available.

again epic start this by doing what they did, apple just want them to follow the terms everyone else does. i not say apple dont have there flaws, but terms are terms. what make epic thing they except from said terms? Year ago there where all over steam now they changed targets except EPIC started this

tsunami231:

again epic start this by doing what they did, apple just want them to follow the terms everyone else does. i not say apple dont have there flaws, but terms are terms. what make epic thing they except from said terms?

Imagine everyone starts doing what Epic did. Apple would be on the corner.