Kripke:

Huawei is simply put an extension of the Chinese communist government used to conduct industrial espionage against various international companies and entities. They are really no different than the Chinese People’s Liberation Army cyber-espionage division. As you have mentioned the Chinese have a systematic and nationwide program to transfer technology, steal technology, copy technology, buy foreign companies with technology and basically use any and all means necessary including criminal acts all in order to leapfrog into the 21st century. Direct competition is one thing but if various countries such as the US, UK, France, Germany etc spend trillions of dollars and euros on research and technology only to have the Chinese sneak in and steal it from you I am sure there will be lots of unhappy people. These all all countries where China has through multiple means stolen tech from and it has been reported in the media. The Chinese have also stolen enough technology to make their own Shinkansen bullet trains, missile and radar tech, materials tech, satellite tech telecom tech, etc. and not surprisingly on multiple occasions after copying the tech from foreign companies bankrupted the original patent holders. Is it really surprising the US is standing up to china now? Only the foolish and naive would think so.

lol talking about stolen from what i see, tons of international company manufacturing in china by manufacturing in china, they automatically get the tech + know-how rather than "espionage-spy" stealing now count how many company that mass-product their products on china ? apple, dell, pc parts all most came from china thats why like japan, still keeping the latest tech to be build domestically (within japan) rather than mass-production it on their china-factory, this way at least holding back what they can copy

And here, ladies and gentlemen, is why we need more decentralization in the global economy. No single country should be able to do things like that. Way too many companies are located in the US.

I still think this is a bad move, China has the capacity to make they'r own tech at a lower price so in time we will see something like this: 1. Higher pricese for tech made outside China. 2. Lower pricese for tech made in China. It may be that in 10 years the cost of tech will be 100%-200%-300% higher for wat is made outside China. And we end users may end up buying high price electronics at a lower rate. So the only ones that will benefit from this will be the big firms that will be able to increse the pricese and make a biger profit in time. To me Trump is thinking and making choices more as a firm boss that a president of a country, he thinks of his/others firms how to benefit in time (not his country, more the big firms from his country). I still wait for real proof that Huawei is spyng for China !! This is becoming more and more a witch hunt.

Kripke:

Huawei is simply put an extension of the Chinese communist government used to conduct industrial espionage against various international companies and entities. They are really no different than the Chinese People’s Liberation Army cyber-espionage division. As you have mentioned the Chinese have a systematic and nationwide program to transfer technology, steal technology, copy technology, buy foreign companies with technology and basically use any and all means necessary including criminal acts all in order to leapfrog into the 21st century. Direct competition is one thing but if various countries such as the US, UK, France, Germany etc spend trillions of dollars and euros on research and technology only to have the Chinese sneak in and steal it from you I am sure there will be lots of unhappy people. These all all countries where China has through multiple means stolen tech from and it has been reported in the media. The Chinese have also stolen enough technology to make their own Shinkansen bullet trains, missile and radar tech, materials tech, satellite tech telecom tech, etc. and not surprisingly on multiple occasions after copying the tech from foreign companies bankrupted the original patent holders. Is it really surprising the US is standing up to china now? Only the foolish and naive would think so.

You are so feeding every clichee available I have a hard time not to say you're a troll. And even mentioning the terms foolish and naive....

The big problem is that what China is doing, US is also doing it. Is not like US is not doing cyber-espionage, or stealing tech from others. Is like a thief shouting thief. I feel sorry for Huawei, but it also may be good for them if they manage to become independent from other firms.

msotirov:

And here, ladies and gentlemen, is why we need more decentralization in the global economy. No single country should be able to do things like that. Way too many companies are located in the US.

You said it. It's not good that pretty much everything is made in China these days. Production should be decentralised to lots of different countries.

nicugoalkeper:

I still wait for real proof that Huawei is spyng for China !!

Eh. Who exactly are you to be qualified to require to see the proof? Are you a supreme court judge, or something?

What actual instances do we have where their 5G infrastructure has allowed national intelligence to be fed back to China ?

Kaarme:

You said it. It's not good that pretty much everything is made in China these days. Production should be decentralised to lots of different countries. Eh. Who exactly are you to be qualified to require to see the proof? Are you a supreme court judge, or something?

Absolutely agree with @msotirov and you on the first line, production should be decentralised. Although now complaining when especially the US tech companies have outsourced production to China for decades to save money and make more profit seems a little two faced... it's not like anybody told the tech giants to let almost everything be built in China. It's of their own doing, and now blaming China for this is pretty stupid tbh. On the second, why should I not see proof? We as consumers are affected, why should we not deserve to know why there will be big changes? And practically every government that is avoiding Huawei for 5G networks now does deserve proof... maybe not us as simple people, like you said, but governments and courts. We probably won't know if anybody got proof of this since of course, such claims are never backed by publicly known facts since it's "intelligence information", so US spies spying on China, at best (which makes the spying argument a little hypocritic as well), or it's a claim without proof. But you are right Kaarme, we here probably won't ever get to see proof. We just have to live with what "somebody" says. That's how such important decisions should NOT be made, though.

fantaskarsef:

Absolutely agree with @msotirov and you on the first line, production should be decentralised. Although now complaining when especially the US tech companies have outsourced production to China for decades to save money and make more profit seems a little two faced... it's not like anybody told the tech giants to let almost everything be built in China. It's of their own doing, and now blaming China for this is pretty stupid tbh.

It's not just the USA. Europe moved production to China as well. It's indeed kind of foolish to blame China for anything in this regard. China's government's job is to make China as powerful as possible. Of course since they are communists they do it with zero concern about environment or human rights, but they have to do it nonetheless. After the mistakes of the early communists, they certainly did have a lot of work to do. They succeeded splendidly, though, in a very short time. China in already highly developed in many things, although with an understandably high price (like terrible pollution) and compromises (corruption, safety issues). What's happening right now is only a small part of the high price that had to be paid at some point.

fantaskarsef:

On the second, why should I not see proof? We as consumers are affected, why should we not deserve to know why there will be big changes? And practically every government that is avoiding Huawei for 5G networks now does deserve proof... maybe not us as simple people, like you said, but governments and courts. We probably won't know if anybody got proof of this since of course, such claims are never backed by publicly known facts since it's "intelligence information", so US spies spying on China, at best (which makes the spying argument a little hypocritic as well), or it's a claim without proof. But you are right Kaarme, we here probably won't ever get to see proof. We just have to live with what "somebody" says. That's how such important decisions should NOT be made, though.

We live in representative democracies. We do our jobs and have politicians do their jobs. We don't actually make directly these decisions ever, we just elect people to do the decisions for us. They need to know the details. We only need to know, approximately, what sort of people they are so that we might be able to predict what kind of decisions they make, in the grand scheme of things. I'm pretty sure this particular thing falls right in with Trump's promises and publicly known opinions when he was a presidential candidate. Most of the public has no business in these sorts of things anyway. A man might be a real expert in welding ship hulls, but it doesn't make him qualified to evaluate intelligence information and decide on international trade. The Swiss think it does, but the rest of the world doesn't.

nicugoalkeper:

I still think this is a bad move, China has the capacity to make they'r own tech at a lower price so in time we will see something like this: 1. Higher pricese for tech made outside China. 2. Lower pricese for tech made in China. It may be that in 10 years the cost of tech will be 100%-200%-300% higher for wat is made outside China. And we end users may end up buying high price electronics at a lower rate. So the only ones that will benefit from this will be the big firms that will be able to increse the pricese and make a biger profit in time. To me Trump is thinking and making choices more as a firm boss that a president of a country, he thinks of his/others firms how to benefit in time (not his country, more the big firms from his country). I still wait for real proof that Huawei is spyng for China !! This is becoming more and more a witch hunt.

It is like this: https://i.postimg.cc/P5CByVD1/UbansH.jpg[/img Not about one man or one company,its about freedom of speech and free trade. Xiaomi,OnePlus,Oppo will be happy to get the share of the market from Huawei. 😉 Lets not forget about the "islands" made it by China in claimed "their" South China Sea.Thats not free trade and will not be allowed to make that region only China's sea. So ragers gonna rage,but against others not against US or EU companies.

Turanis:

It is like this: https://i.postimg.cc/P5CByVD1/UbansH.jpg[/img Not about one man or one company,its about freedom of speech and free trade. Xiaomi,OnePlus,Oppo will be happy to get the share of the market from Huawei. 😉 Lets not forget about the "islands" made it by China in claimed "their" South China Sea.Thats not free trade and will not be allowed to make that region only China's sea. So ragers gonna rage,but against others not against US or EU companies.

Free trade when laying ban on internation companies... yeah that's free trade o_O And territorial disputes in the South Chinese sea are also about free trade, just like Japan only recently formalized their territorial disputes with Russia about the islands between Hokkaido and Sachalin... o_O

It is about free trade,all. 🙂

Turanis:

It is about free trade,all. 🙂

Protectionism is against free trade. So yeah it is about free trade. But territorial disputes are not... it's about influence, resources. Sorry but please explain to me how the dispute about South Chinese sea's islands is about free trade, I fail to make the connection there.

Its not space and time to discuss here all the reasons behind the ban of Huawei.I said whats about of big picture: its about freedom of speech and free & fair trade. 🙂

Turanis:

Its not space and time to discuss here all the reasons behind the ban of Huawei.I said whats about of big picture: its about freedom of speech and free & fair trade. 🙂

The big picture is economic interestes of the US. There is no relevance to free speach in China (or it would have been named as a reason for this, it is not), and what the US does is actually against free trade. I'm not sure how much clearer it can be. But yes let's not discuss this since we'd only dig into a political argument, which is not worth the discussion since we can't change it, and we're actually here to talk about computers and their hardware.

Ok,last word here: if dont like the measures of US gov then go to China,where you dont have Google,YT,Fb,Wiki,etc. Where you enjoy their "freedom of speech". 🙂 Everyone have interests,everyone push the limits,but if dont have freedom and fair trade then its about dictatorship and red propaganda.

Turanis:

Ok,last word here: if dont like the measures of US gov then go to China,where you dont have Google,YT,Fb,Wiki,etc. Where you enjoy their "freedom of speech". 🙂 Everyone have interests,everyone push the limits,but if dont have freedom and fair trade then its about dictatorship and red propaganda.

Yes, have your last word, I still disagree with you. The US are not saints, you are biased. Have a nice day still.

This is good news, but still, you do know that your own government is spying right?

RzrTrek:

This is good news, but still, you do know that your own government is spying right?

People keep boiling this down to "spying" but it's specifically IP theft. Huawei has a history of stealing IP from US/European companies. China itself has shown it has no intention of punishing any IP theft - so I think its a pretty large security risk to have a company partially owned by the Chinese government operating the US's primary 5G network. While the US spies on it's citizens and others I don't really see the US stealing technological secrets and giving them to US companies in an attempt to one up the market. I'm not saying it's not happening but it's definitely no where near as rampant as it occurs in China.

Huawei may complain to the heavens (and does), but they have brought this on themselves. in no way shape or form am i a supporter of mr. Trump, but as the saying goes "a broken clock is right two times a day". picking on China is easy and low hanging fruit. the Chinese having game-planned their entire economic resurgence never counted on two things, 1) getting caught stealing and 2) the rise of arrogant behavior commensurate with their (awesome) economic advances. boiling all of the U.S. and China relations down over time leaves these as the basic truths. the economic policies themselves re: Chinese production are already strongarm tactics that would never be tolerated in a nation of fewer (potential) consumers. the Chinese cleverly used capitalistic greed to enrich their technology and economic base. but the problem is the Chinese didn't stop there, and there is no appropriate oversight in one party countries to tell them "hey guys, maybe the pace of industrial and military espionage is too high, we should throttle it back". every single foreign company in China has been exploited by industrial espionage with dossiers compiled on their workforce and cell phones are always monitored.