schmidtbag:

Isn't the primary purpose of cryptocurrencies is to evade governments? A lot of governments are seeking ways to tax people on these currencies, but they're having a hard time doing so. Also, despite the slew of coin options out there, only a handful possess any real value. I have a hard time believing there will be anything that surpasses the interest of Bitcoin and Ethereum. Even the more "innovative" options, like Gridcoin or Burstcoin offer very little value.

That's correct, but there is a large amount of people who mine and place value in cryptocurrencies which aren't associated with crime. Crytpo currencies have no intrinsic value, if major governments ban it, people will stop believing it has value, and its market value will go down. When the Chinese government was merely discussing the possibility of banning mining the value of most coins took a dive. If governments want to crack down on miners, it's a lot easier done than you think. Even in Canada they investigate households based on electricity usage, to make sure no one is making any money growing anything the Canadian government deems not good for cigarette companies, such as weed. They investigated my mother because her electricity usage was higher than normal due to using salon appliances like hair dryers which are high wattage. Someone should have told those morons that professional quality (hand held) hair dryers tend to start at 1800 watts (and large ones take shit tons more), then again, that probably wouldn't change any of their policies.

CrazyBaldhead:

Keep your government intervention to yourself, commie.

Uh... communism is not synonymous with authoritarianism. In other words, communism inherently does not grant government intervention (actually, real communism prefers to prevent that). If Neo Cyrus were to be labeled anything (which I don't think should be done), it would be "fed", as in federalist.

Aura89:

Probably a bit early to state that, since in the last month, cryptocurrency has just about doubled in overall value. https://i.imgur.com/n1ZekMC.jpg The main thing that benefits GPU prices, is that many coins GPUs could mine before hand are not being mined by ASICs making mining them useless with a GPU if you actually want to make money, but there are many coins that fight off ASICs and, according to them, will never allow them on their coins, so who knows what 2 months from now if this uptrend continues with GPU sales due to mining.

Crypto prices have recovered somewhat, but are still nowhere near their January levels. As far as I know, most miners aren't buying more GPUs, as the ROI is still very low. Of course there's always the risk of another bull run - we're seeing some light at the end of the tunnel but we're not out of the woods yet. As for ASICs, it's mostly a non-factor. The Bitmain Monero miner is now a dud since the coin transitioned to CryptoNightV7 and I doubt it will make a comeback (the devs have stated their intention of keeping it ASIC-resistant by changing the algorithm regularly). The Bitmain Ethereum miner is also remarkably weak, only slightly more efficient compared to a GPU rig. The only advantage it has is the price, but that's stated to go up massively after the first batch (and with GPU prices coming down, that advantage won't last long). The only successful ASICs so far is for Bitcoin.

Neo Cyrus:

That's correct, but there is a large amount of people who mine and place value in cryptocurrencies which aren't associated with crime. Crytpo currencies have no intrinsic value, if major governments ban it, people will stop believing it has value, and its market value will go down. When the Chinese government was merely discussing the possibility of banning mining the value of most coins took a dive.

Government actions may influence trading, but the ultimate value of cryptocurrencies is the technology behind them: blockchain. They are the primary working examples of a decentralized ledger system, which has applications in many industries.

D3M1G0D:

As for ASICs, it's mostly a non-factor. The Bitmain Monero miner is now a dud since the coin transitioned to CryptoNightV7 and I doubt it will make a comeback (the devs have stated their intention of keeping it ASIC-resistant by changing the algorithm regularly). The Bitmain Ethereum miner is also remarkably weak, only slightly more efficient compared to a GPU rig. The only advantage it has is the price, but that's stated to go up massively after the first batch (and with GPU prices coming down, that advantage won't last long). The only successful ASICs so far is for Bitcoin.

Yes, but those are really only two, and no one really knows what will continue to both of them. What i meant by that statement is there continues to be less and less algorithms with no ASICs on them, or at least are no longer GPU profitable due to ASICs or FPGAs. This year so far is the year of the ASIC expansion into additonal algorithms, before this year, they were in SHA256, Scrypt, and x11. Now they are in, if you count the baikal miners (FPGA), and i do because they effectively do the same thing as an ASIC in terms of make GPU mining not profitable, 14? 15? something around that, additional algorithms. From mid-2017 to now, we went from 3 algorithms where GPU mining is not profitable, to somewhere around 17 algorithms where GPU mining is not profitable.

D3M1G0D:

The only successful ASICs so far is for Bitcoin.

I don't understand this statement. Technically, the only real fail ASIC so far was for x11 because bitmain flooded the market exceptionally fast. But SHA-256 miners are not really that successful either right now. https://www.asicminervalue.com/ You'll see that SHA-256, which is what bitcoin is on, is pretty far down that list, and the top one, is a 6700 watt beast that 99% of people are incapable of powering or buying. And then after that, a smaller cousin of the same one, @ 3350 watts. All ASICs have been successful, even the D3 x11 from bitmain is still making money even though they destroyed x11s difficulty. So i don't understand what you're trying to say in that statement.

Aura89:

I don't understand this statement. Technically, the only real fail ASIC so far was for x11 because bitmain flooded the market exceptionally fast. But SHA-256 miners are not really that successful either right now. https://www.asicminervalue.com/ You'll see that SHA-256, which is what bitcoin is on, is pretty far down that list, and the top one, is a 6700 watt beast that 99% of people are incapable of powering or buying. And then after that, a smaller cousin of the same one, @ 3350 watts. All ASICs have been successful, even the D3 x11 from bitmain is still making money even though they destroyed x11s difficulty. So i don't understand what you're trying to say in that statement.

Most of the ASICs on that list are for algorithms / coins which are fairly obscure (I've never even heard of Tensority algorithm until now). Most of the big coins use algorithms which are still mostly mined with GPUs, such as Ethash (Ethereum), CryptoNightV7 (Monero), neoscrypt (Feathercoin), Lyra2REv2 (Verge) and equihash (ZCash). The biggest one of course is Ethash/DaggerHashimoto which is still dominated by GPUs, regardless of what Bitmain's E3 does. In fact, what the E3 demonstrated is that it is extremely difficult to create an efficient ASIC for something like Ethash due to the memory requirements. Bitcoin ASICs were successful because they just needed to pack as many ASIC chips as possible onto a board but you cannot do that with Ethash. The Monero dev team also made it very clear that they can make ASICs into paperweight pretty easily so it's unlikely that companies like Bitmain will try to create another one. You seem to believe that this some kind of renaissance for ASICs which is making GPUs unprofitable, but I just don't see it (and I actually do some mining). The two biggest threats was the Monero and Ethereum miners, since these are major coins with a large market cap, but they both essentially failed.

D3M1G0D:

(I've never even heard of Tensority algorithm until now).

Well, that's for good reason, it just came out, and, has a bit of controversy with bitmain, who is a "partner" of that coin.

D3M1G0D:

Lyra2REv2 (Verge)

Verge is a multi-algo coin

D3M1G0D:

You seem to believe that this some kind of renaissance for ASICs which is making GPUs unprofitable, but I just don't see it (and I actually do some mining). The two biggest threats was the Monero and Ethereum miners, since these are major coins with a large market cap, but they both essentially failed.

No, i very clearly stated that there are ASICs for more algorithms this year by far then there ever was before. And i do not expect that to stop. I do expect some coins to switch algorithms if an ASIC is created, like monero, all i said was that the AMOUNT of GPU profitable coins are going away. Not everyone mines the most profitable coin, if that was the case, there would be no hashrate on most coins.

Aura89:

No, i very clearly stated that there are ASICs for more algorithms this year by far then there ever was before. And i do not expect that to stop. I do expect some coins to switch algorithms if an ASIC is created, like monero, all i said was that the AMOUNT of GPU profitable coins are going away.

That all depends on how willing the developers are in permitting ASICs. One of the interesting side-effects of the Bitmain Monero miner was the release of CryptoNightV7, which provided a boost to GPU mining (for the first couple of days, it was wildly profitable). The Ethereum devs weren't so gung-ho on a hard fork, although that was mostly because of how inefficient the E3 miner was (if it was a lot more efficient then I'm sure they would have forked). In general, I think most coin devs would prefer to keep their coins GPU-minable in order to avoid the centralization risk of ASICs, and I trust that will continue.

D3M1G0D:

One of the interesting side-effects of the Bitmain Monero miner was the release of CryptoNightV7, which provided a boost to GPU mining (for the first couple of days, it was wildly profitable).

Wasn't that because of the fact that bitmain and others already had ASICs on the coin long before they announced the miners, effectively getting rid of that massive hashrate when switching to V7? Granted this has gotten a bit off topic.

Aura89:

Wasn't that because of the fact that bitmain and others already had ASICs on the coin long before they announced the miners, effectively getting rid of that massive hashrate when switching to V7? Granted this has gotten a bit off topic.

Perhaps, although the profitability dropped pretty rapidly once GPUs got back in (it was good while it lasted, LOL). Some miners are also suspicious that Bitmain is secretly mining ETH using ASICs, although I remain unconvinced of that (IMO, the rise in hash rates can be explained solely by GPUs). Anyways, yes, this has gotten off-topic. :P

D3M1G0D:

Most of the ASICs on that list are for algorithms / coins which are fairly obscure (I've never even heard of Tensority algorithm until now). Most of the big coins use algorithms which are still mostly mined with GPUs, such as Ethash (Ethereum), CryptoNightV7 (Monero), neoscrypt (Feathercoin), Lyra2REv2 (Verge) and equihash (ZCash). The biggest one of course is Ethash/DaggerHashimoto which is still dominated by GPUs, regardless of what Bitmain's E3 does. In fact, what the E3 demonstrated is that it is extremely difficult to create an efficient ASIC for something like Ethash due to the memory requirements. Bitcoin ASICs were successful because they just needed to pack as many ASIC chips as possible onto a board but you cannot do that with Ethash. The Monero dev team also made it very clear that they can make ASICs into paperweight pretty easily so it's unlikely that companies like Bitmain will try to create another one. You seem to believe that this some kind of renaissance for ASICs which is making GPUs unprofitable, but I just don't see it (and I actually do some mining). The two biggest threats was the Monero and Ethereum miners, since these are major coins with a large market cap, but they both essentially failed.

There can be good "ASIC" made. most of them have similar performance/watt. They were just cheaper to buy. So, nV/AMD are perfect companies to make them. They'll cut everything rendering related and optimize a bit compute related stuff. By that, their product will be cheaper than regular GPU. Due to removed unnecessary parts power consumption will be lower (and as well due to additional tweaking). And apparently cheaper to make than GPU. And on top of that those will have some resale value as universal compute devices. They could make it mainly for compute server market, where they put very high price premium. So it would give increased profit to nV/AMD and more efficient operation to client. If they sell later some cheaper lower end parts to minors... But it would not affect much situation where nV/AMD does not make enough GPUs to satisfy demand.

Fox2232:

There can be good "ASIC" made. most of them have similar performance/watt. They were just cheaper to buy. So, nV/AMD are perfect companies to make them. They'll cut everything rendering related and optimize a bit compute related stuff. By that, their product will be cheaper than regular GPU. Due to removed unnecessary parts power consumption will be lower (and as well due to additional tweaking). And apparently cheaper to make than GPU. And on top of that those will have some resale value as universal compute devices. They could make it mainly for compute server market, where they put very high price premium. So it would give increased profit to nV/AMD and more efficient operation to client. If they sell later some cheaper lower end parts to minors... But it would not affect much situation where nV/AMD does not make enough GPUs to satisfy demand.

Yes, a pure compute card for mining would certainly be doable, just depends on how willing they are to invest. I think cryptos have largely been treated as a passing fad - something to tolerate until demand dropped off. Hopefully the recent shortage serves as a wake-up call. On the other hand, I think cryptos need to use something which doesn't waste so much electricity. PoS is probably a good alternative, and hopefully Ethereum shows the way for the other coins (some coins are already PoS but Ethereum is considered the leader for GPU-minable coins).

CrazyBaldhead:

Your knowledge of political terms is so pathetic I don't even know where to begin.

You could begin with the dictionary or encyclopedia, so you'll realize that you are in fact are the one who is wrong.

You must also be Canadian.

I'm not, but even if I were, how is that relevant or supposed to be a bad thing? I, along with most of the world, likes Canadians.

CrazyBaldhead:

Don't even try. Political history is my field.

I highly doubt that. Even if that's true, that doesn't mean you're good at what you do. I will always trust actual sources vs the personal claims (or should I say, opinions) of an anonymous angry bigot on the internet. A reputable scholar of political history would not call people commies or insult a successful nation. Anyway since I preach sources, read the first paragraph and the first sentence after that. You'll find communism is explicitly defined to not grant authoritative power to the government, and shares similarities to anarchism (you should know what that means): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism So - mind explaining how the idea of government intervention of cryptocurrencies a communist ideal?

Not even Canadians like Canadians. They have been self destructing for years now.

To my knowledge, it's just Quebecois vs the rest of the country. And even then, they still like each other enough where Quebec had the opportunity to secede (democratically), and they didn't. Anyway, your opinion of Canada is clearly in the minority - it very much is a well-liked country: https://www.straight.com/life/1023606/canada-ranks-second-best-country-world-while-among-nations-leading-disapproval-donald

Can we get back to talking about Chris Hooks job with Intel?

CrazyBaldhead:

I'd be happy to debate ALL of this, we'll record it and share it. Up for it? Can do it through Discord or Skype.

Lol, this guy...this guy.....

CrazyBaldhead:

Back in your shed, cuck.

Oh, now we're resulting to insults? Interesting, interesting.

[spoiler]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-YNBUN8wmV5M/Wu6Co3bR_hI/AAAAAAAABIQ/DguzwrW7R5YfcZeOUBpEUtTpB1vKvW8twCJoC/w500-h208/don%2527t%2Bfeed%2Bthe%2Btrolls.gif[/spoiler]