AMD Ryzen Quad-Core 2+2 versus 4+0 Core Setups Analyzed

#5413015

rl66

2017-03-27 18:42

L100% successful at forcing Intel to finally consider 6-core mainstream.

sadly it was on plan before Zen (now called Ryzen)... i'm still on my 50% let's see if time make it better

#5413020

Silva

2017-03-27 18:48

Or maybe the problem is ryzen overclocks like a dog? Let's just oc both to the max: 7700k @ 5Ghz vs Ryzen @ 4.1Ghz

Let's blame a new 8 core chip for things it can't do while we praise an overpriced 4 core chip because it clocks slightly better costing an arm and a leg doing so. Why don't you compare OC with Intel own 8 core and add price into consideration? Oh right, Intel Fanboys don't care about the price factor cuz AMD is trash.

#5413024

Fox2232

2017-03-27 18:57

Funny comments everywhere. When Bulldozer came, Everyone was all around IPC metric. Now IPC is dirty word. Yes, Ryzen does not play as good as Kaby in many games. But it still plays damn well. And it is something to keep for quite a few years. + All those spare threads... Some people here know no shame.

#5413026

Amx85

2017-03-27 18:59

Well memory bandwidth seems to increase performance quite a bit, kinda reminds me of the P4 netburst where high latency cache prefers high bandwidth memory, same for the AMD FX chips. However not sure if this is memory bandwidth or the fact the bus speed has increased from 100MHz to 123MHz increasing PCI-e throughput significantly which much like the AMD FX overclocking the HT yielded very good performance gains. Since all traffic is going through this 4x PCIe 3.0 connection 4GB/sec each direction graphics cards start taking a noise drive at this speed and have other stuff connected to it i think that extra 23MHz = 23% more data traffic will help more than the memory it's self. Good luck getting to 3600MHz memory need Samsung chips to do that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZS2XHcQdqA#t=0.151099

The hexacores looks the better option :infinity: offtopic: i checked that video, RyZen @3600MHz RAM is getting equal/bigger performance @4GHz vs Kabylake @5GHz, looks great no? :pc1:

#5413027

Amx85

2017-03-27 19:04

I wasn´t expecting this one. I thought having all the cores in one cluster would be much better than having the cores divided between 2 clusters but i was completly wrong.

i think higher lv3 cache amount make a difference, 2+2 gets 16MB lv3 and 4+0 gets 8MB

#5413029

Amx85

2017-03-27 19:07

Funny comments everywhere. When Bulldozer came, Everyone was all around IPC metric. Now IPC is dirty word. Yes, Ryzen does not play as good as Kaby in many games. But it still plays damn well. And it is something to keep for quite a few years. + All those spare threads... Some people here know no shame.

Hahaha, Bulldozer problem was core utilization amount, even today most of software are limited under 4 threads and old instruction sets; under SSE4.1 ot SSE4A(if supported), just some games with highly AI trends over 4c but i see still limited between 6 and 8 threads

#5413038

Kaarme

2017-03-27 19:25

sadly it was on plan before Zen (now called Ryzen)... i'm still on my 50% let's see if time make it better

After a decade of Intel 4-core max mainstreams, I'm not going to believe that. AMD's new architecture was talked for a long time, and it's not like anybody sane would have expected it to max at 4 cores.

Funny comments everywhere. When Bulldozer came, Everyone was all around IPC metric. Now IPC is dirty word. Yes, Ryzen does not play as good as Kaby in many games.

Kaby Lake is nothing but a Skylake overclock (plus lolptane), so it's meaningless to simply match it IPC wise if you can't get anywhere near the clocks. Now, I'm not saying Ryzen would be bad. It's what I'd be buying if my Intel system wasn't only a year old. I'd have supported anything but Intel's bottomless greed if I had had a choice.

#5413059

The Reeferman

2017-03-27 20:44

Last time I looked in the Ryzen OC forum thread I saw one eating an OCed I7 7700k for breakfast. It did need very fast ram speed to achieve that but it won, with wide margin, in GTA5, BF1 and others. Somewhere in this thread around page 23, can find it this quick. http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=412876&page=22

#5413061

eclap

2017-03-27 20:52

Funny comments everywhere. When Bulldozer came, Everyone was all around IPC metric. Now IPC is dirty word. Yes, Ryzen does not play as good as Kaby in many games. But it still plays damn well. And it is something to keep for quite a few years. + All those spare threads... Some people here know no shame.

Don't forget that in "a few years" we'll have GPUs a lot faster than now and CPU bottleneck will come into play. The mid range 1170 will be as fast or faster than the current king, 1080ti.

#5413065

-Tj-

2017-03-27 21:04

Seems 4+0 is just the same as 2+2 which both are worse than 4+4 or 3+3 if there even is a difference. Would mean the interconnect isn't the issue after all. To me that conclusion is actually positive.

Yeah, I think most games that have a large gap is mostly because it favors intel HT or intel's way in general. Anyone remember those intel logos in the past? Fallout4, newer FC series, Hitman, F1, Dirt Rally, RE5, LP2, Crysis1, 2, etc. are all intel branded and optimized for it, so something like FC primal or Fallout4, or even F1 2016 won't get any fixes anymore.. Those are last season now, it was like so in the past.. Unless AMD pays them extra so they add Ryzen optimization code in it.

#5413076

slickric21

2017-03-27 21:35

Last time I looked in the Ryzen OC forum thread I saw one eating an OCed I7 7700k for breakfast. It did need very fast ram speed to achieve that but it won, with wide margin, in GTA5, BF1 and others. Somewhere in this thread around page 23, can find it this quick. http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=412876&page=22

You referring to that Video that everyone has seen of the Ryzen with 3600mhz ram in gaming?? Yup. If about 50:50 is eating something for breakfast..... well then I've been mis-using the term all these years

#5413077

Fox2232

2017-03-27 21:36

Don't forget that in "a few years" we'll have GPUs a lot faster than now and CPU bottleneck will come into play. The mid range 1170 will be as fast or faster than the current king, 1080ti.

And to feed those GPUs, developers will have to use DX12/Vulkan for their multi-threaded ability. In other words up to 6 or 8 real threads just to feed GPU.

#5413081

schmidtbag

2017-03-27 21:43

I'm a little confused - how do we know the "4+0" isn't just 4 cores without SMT, and how do we know "2+2" isn't just 2 cores with SMT? To me, the only way to definitively prove the performance of a single CCX is by testing only 1 core without SMT. Regardless, those benchmarks do imply something good: either the CCXs don't hinder performance, or, SMT scales VERY nicely.

Dunno what they changed in Dota2, but atleast there was quite big uprade atleast with game update (+25% roughly).

Yes, I have heard about this on the Phoronix forums. It seems when utilized properly, Ryzen is quite powerful.

#5413087

PrMinisterGR

2017-03-27 21:57

Does anyone have a benchmark on Dota 2 after the Ryzen update? The only thing I can find is a guy on the Chinese forum claiming he went from ~130 to ~160 fps. Also all this conversation about quads being a better choice for getting a CPU in 2017, reminds me of some equally surreal conversations in the graphics subforum, where people were insisting that the GTX 960 2GB was a better choice to the R9 380 4GB, because it was a bit faster on some titles, and "you can't use the extra memory on such a low-end GPU anyway". This whole argument kind of has this vibe. After seeing Jayz playing a bit more with his CPU after a BIOS update, this whole thing became an even greater no-brainer for me.

#5413089

slickric21

2017-03-27 22:00

So get 200% performance increase on production speed and loose 15 to 20% performance on gaming at 95 wat No brainier.

............all except for those who want the best gaming performance...

#5413090

Athlonite

2017-03-27 22:03

So if it's not the CCX's being the problem then what is well probably a mix of slower IPC and non optimization of code to help it do things the RyZen way oh and a lack of OC ability 4.1GHz vs Intels 7700K @ 4.8GHz maybe if they could match that then they might have a chance... Still doesn't put me off the RyZen though I'd rather happily pay AMD than be extorted by Intel

#5413091

PrMinisterGR

2017-03-27 22:05

............all except for those who want the best gaming performance...

Then you have the question if the best gaming performance is given by average framerates, useless "minimum" and "maximum" numbers, or things like frame latency, where things get much more muddy. Look at the frame plotting graphs, and notice the spikes of the 7700k, even in games it does well in. [youtube]RZS2XHcQdqA[/youtube]

#5413094

Noisiv

2017-03-27 22:17

All this fighting and arguing is useless. Your most persuasive vote is your wallet. And speaking of which... I'm seeing quite a few ppl giving Universal and Positive "Yes" to Ryzen, but very few actually voting with the wallet. 6core is the last train to AMD this gen imho. No one is going to upgrade Sandy+ to a 4core which is almost better. AMD needs time to polish, bur alas... All in all decent. Could have been worse, could have been better.

#5413098

Cave Waverider

2017-03-27 22:37

I really hope the next revision of Ryzen will support Quad Channel memory or possibly even eight.

#5413099

illLoGiQ

2017-03-27 22:41

Maybe, just maybe AMD Ryzen CPU's were made for 4k gaming? How's the performance on 4k games? I mean i get some people like myself still game at 1080p 144hz but i think Ryzen is made for 4K gaming. This whole 1080p comparisons is funny, how about we drop the resolution to 720p and see if there is cause for concern at this point. During the press conferences were they not showing mostly all 4K gaming demo's?