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Valve to explain 'hardware opportunities' for Linux
Valve's Gabe Newell likes Linux. A lot. In spite of the operating system representing less-than-one percent share by every metric used by Valve, Newell believes that Linux will play a large role in the future of PC gaming--so much so that his company is invested in making a Linux-based Steambox. In addition to releasing games on the OS, Valve is showing their support of Linux by contributing to the LLDB debugger project, because developers frequently cite the need for a debugger to make Linux a better development platform.
Newell still believes Windows 8 is a catastrophe, pointing out that PC sales have experienced year-over-year declines. However, Steam sales have increased 76 percent--suggesting Valve is doing something right.
Valve brought Steam to Linux in February, and the platform now has 198 games. Newell has previously promised to unveil a Linux-based "Steam box" to compete against living room gaming consoles sometime this year, and his company has updated the Steam software to work better on TVs. While he didn't specifically mention the Steam box today, Newell hinted at an announcement next week.
"Next week we're going to be rolling out more information about how we get there and what are the hardware opportunities we see for bringing Linux into the living room," Newell said.
Getting games to work on Linux has its challenges. If not implemented right, "Just compile it yourself" could be the inconvenient solution to the problem of installing games and applying updates, he said. However, Valve worked through these problems in bringing Left 4 Dead 2 to Linux, hopefully showing the way to other developers, he said.
Bringing Steam to Linux "was a signal for our development partners that we really were serious about this Linux thing we were talking about," Newell said.
trentbg
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Posts: 55
Joined: 2009-11-05
#4657291 Posted on: 09/18/2013 12:39 PM
He better explain where the hell is HL 3.
He better explain where the hell is HL 3.
kanej2007
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Senior Member
Posts: 8365
Joined: 2007-08-07
#4657294 Posted on: 09/18/2013 12:45 PM
He's been busy:
He better explain where the hell is HL 3.
He's been busy:
Asgardi
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Joined: 2010-11-13
Senior Member
Posts: 229
Joined: 2010-11-13
#4657300 Posted on: 09/18/2013 12:58 PM
Yeah...
I kind of understand they have to seek alternatives to Windows because MS is starting to compete with them with W8 store. Even if Steam is currently light years ahead, desktop is going away eventually and that would basically kill Valve's current business model. And there are no other options really than Linux. But come on... W8 has already passed Linux market share over 5 times (8 % vs 1,5 %). And worst of all, Linux market share has stayed there for like 10 years.
As I said, I kind of understand their investments in Linux but I would rather see them spending their resources in games again. They really made great games not too long ago.
Yeah...
He better explain where the hell is HL 3.
I kind of understand they have to seek alternatives to Windows because MS is starting to compete with them with W8 store. Even if Steam is currently light years ahead, desktop is going away eventually and that would basically kill Valve's current business model. And there are no other options really than Linux. But come on... W8 has already passed Linux market share over 5 times (8 % vs 1,5 %). And worst of all, Linux market share has stayed there for like 10 years.
As I said, I kind of understand their investments in Linux but I would rather see them spending their resources in games again. They really made great games not too long ago.
Veeshush
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Senior Member
Posts: 1095
Joined: 2010-11-28
#4657306 Posted on: 09/18/2013 01:11 PM
Linux doesn't need your Steam, Gabe. Linux distros update their packages just fine on their own.
It just needs the games.
Linux doesn't need your Steam, Gabe. Linux distros update their packages just fine on their own.
It just needs the games.
Redemption80
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Senior Member
Posts: 18352
Joined: 2009-01-06
#4657319 Posted on: 09/18/2013 01:40 PM
This is bound to fail, for it not to every game would need an OpenGL version that looks as good and performs better.
Since no developers are going to go to that sort of effort this just seems like a huge waste of Valves time and money.
This is bound to fail, for it not to every game would need an OpenGL version that looks as good and performs better.
Since no developers are going to go to that sort of effort this just seems like a huge waste of Valves time and money.
kosh_neranek
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Joined: 2012-12-31
Senior Member
Posts: 341
Joined: 2012-12-31
#4657354 Posted on: 09/18/2013 02:37 PM
I'd love to see games work on Linux .Was dreaming about this years ago. But honestly I can't see how this is going to happen. They need AAA titles to work on Linux.Let's hope Gabe has got something magical in his hat..
I'd love to see games work on Linux .Was dreaming about this years ago. But honestly I can't see how this is going to happen. They need AAA titles to work on Linux.Let's hope Gabe has got something magical in his hat..
Ghosty
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Joined: 2003-07-23
Senior Member
Posts: 4908
Joined: 2003-07-23
#4657377 Posted on: 09/18/2013 03:12 PM
Gaming on Linux could work. Android phones are built using it, all be it heavy modified. If MS keep on making Window versions like 8.0 then I can see more and more people turning to Linux.
Gaming on Linux could work. Android phones are built using it, all be it heavy modified. If MS keep on making Window versions like 8.0 then I can see more and more people turning to Linux.
schmidtbag
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Senior Member
Posts: 4632
Joined: 2012-11-10
#4657390 Posted on: 09/18/2013 03:24 PM
lol
Im not new to the linux thing but...
install ubuntu yesterday and installed steam.
which I installed 64bit ubuntu and steam wouldnt run because it was missing 32bit librarys. so almost hour later because it was using slow mirrors to download. I was able to get steam running, only to find out only 10 of my 300 on linux.
it more work to get steam running on linux then windows
As with everything in linux, it's only a pain to set up. Once you're set up, it's easier than Windows.
@Veeshush
Actually, Steam is exactly what Linux needs. One of the core reasons nobody develops commercial software for linux is because of the variations in distributions, which are overall very similar except their package management systems. Steam can basically be treated as the "commercial/proprietary package manager". A lot of companies are and will look into linux because of steam.
@Redemption80
...do you realize that PC and Xbox are the only platforms that use directx? Mac, Nintendo, and Sony all use opengl, so no, it isn't going to be a huge wasted effort.
lol
Im not new to the linux thing but...
install ubuntu yesterday and installed steam.
which I installed 64bit ubuntu and steam wouldnt run because it was missing 32bit librarys. so almost hour later because it was using slow mirrors to download. I was able to get steam running, only to find out only 10 of my 300 on linux.
it more work to get steam running on linux then windows
As with everything in linux, it's only a pain to set up. Once you're set up, it's easier than Windows.
@Veeshush
Actually, Steam is exactly what Linux needs. One of the core reasons nobody develops commercial software for linux is because of the variations in distributions, which are overall very similar except their package management systems. Steam can basically be treated as the "commercial/proprietary package manager". A lot of companies are and will look into linux because of steam.
@Redemption80
...do you realize that PC and Xbox are the only platforms that use directx? Mac, Nintendo, and Sony all use opengl, so no, it isn't going to be a huge wasted effort.
Timo2
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Posts: 77
Joined: 2012-10-11
Member
Posts: 77
Joined: 2012-10-11
#4657391 Posted on: 09/18/2013 03:25 PM
Quote: Asgardi "MS is starting to compete with them with W8 store."
------------------------------
Excellent observation. Very astute and made me smile. Billionaire Gabe Newell.
On topic - I seem to recall Half Life, Quake, Star wars X wing, Colin McRae etc. all running openGL on NT4 much, much better and faster and nicer looking. There was a choice at start up. D3D or OpenGL. It was a no-brainer on my PII 400 Mhz + Riva TNT.
NT (OS/2 basically) is windows 2000 onwards. HAL is still there, I believe. What happened? MS bribed the developers?
Question is why don't game publishers simply compile for both hardware layers?
Quote: Asgardi "MS is starting to compete with them with W8 store."
------------------------------
Excellent observation. Very astute and made me smile. Billionaire Gabe Newell.
On topic - I seem to recall Half Life, Quake, Star wars X wing, Colin McRae etc. all running openGL on NT4 much, much better and faster and nicer looking. There was a choice at start up. D3D or OpenGL. It was a no-brainer on my PII 400 Mhz + Riva TNT.
NT (OS/2 basically) is windows 2000 onwards. HAL is still there, I believe. What happened? MS bribed the developers?
Question is why don't game publishers simply compile for both hardware layers?
schmidtbag
Senior Member
Posts: 4632
Joined: 2012-11-10
Senior Member
Posts: 4632
Joined: 2012-11-10
#4657396 Posted on: 09/18/2013 03:32 PM
It's true - openGL, where correctly used, is often significantly faster than DX. But that's also the reason why developers don't use it as often for PC/xbox - it's slower and harder to develop for. As far as I'm aware, DX is actually loosely based around OGL but it's heavily abstracted to the point it's relatively easy to use.
On topic - I seem to recall Half Life, Quake, Star wars X wing, Colin McRae etc. all running openGL on NT4 much, much better and faster and nicer looking. There was a choice at start up. D3D or OpenGL. It was a no-brainer on my PII 400 Mhz + Riva TNT.
NT (OS/2 basically) is windows 2000 onwards. HAL is still there, I believe. What happened? MS bribed the developers?
Question is why don't game publishers simply compile for both hardware layers?
NT (OS/2 basically) is windows 2000 onwards. HAL is still there, I believe. What happened? MS bribed the developers?
Question is why don't game publishers simply compile for both hardware layers?
It's true - openGL, where correctly used, is often significantly faster than DX. But that's also the reason why developers don't use it as often for PC/xbox - it's slower and harder to develop for. As far as I'm aware, DX is actually loosely based around OGL but it's heavily abstracted to the point it's relatively easy to use.
Timo2
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Posts: 77
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Member
Posts: 77
Joined: 2012-10-11
#4657404 Posted on: 09/18/2013 03:42 PM
Indeed. Prebuilt libraries, procedure calls and subroutines embedded in Windows OS. You can understand it in a way as Windows became 99% of all OS worldwide by around 1999. Windows should have been made open source.
Indeed. Prebuilt libraries, procedure calls and subroutines embedded in Windows OS. You can understand it in a way as Windows became 99% of all OS worldwide by around 1999. Windows should have been made open source.
Redemption80
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Posts: 18352
Joined: 2009-01-06
#4657429 Posted on: 09/18/2013 04:19 PM
@Redemption80
...do you realize that PC and Xbox are the only platforms that use directx? Mac, Nintendo, and Sony all use opengl, so no, it isn't going to be a huge wasted effort.
I do realise this, but unless Valve have managed to convince all developers to ditch DirectX then it is a waste of time and effort.
Developing for two api's will mean buggier ports and i really think if PC gaming was competing against itself it would really cause alot of harm.
Not that I think this will be competing against Windows anyway, it sounds more like an Ouya alternative.
Speaking of Windows, ignoring the added cost and closed nature of the OS, surely Windows 8 is a better choice for a large TV, controller friendly Steam console than Linux?
@Redemption80
...do you realize that PC and Xbox are the only platforms that use directx? Mac, Nintendo, and Sony all use opengl, so no, it isn't going to be a huge wasted effort.
I do realise this, but unless Valve have managed to convince all developers to ditch DirectX then it is a waste of time and effort.
Developing for two api's will mean buggier ports and i really think if PC gaming was competing against itself it would really cause alot of harm.
Not that I think this will be competing against Windows anyway, it sounds more like an Ouya alternative.
Speaking of Windows, ignoring the added cost and closed nature of the OS, surely Windows 8 is a better choice for a large TV, controller friendly Steam console than Linux?
schmidtbag
Senior Member
Posts: 4632
Joined: 2012-11-10
Senior Member
Posts: 4632
Joined: 2012-11-10
#4657440 Posted on: 09/18/2013 04:38 PM
I do realise this, but unless Valve have managed to convince all developers to ditch DirectX then it is a waste of time and effort.
Developing for two api's will mean buggier ports and i really think if PC gaming was competing against itself it would really cause alot of harm.
Not that I think this will be competing against Windows anyway, it sounds more like an Ouya alternative.
Speaking of Windows, ignoring the added cost and closed nature of the OS, surely Windows 8 is a better choice for a large TV, controller friendly Steam console than Linux?
It appears Valve is the only company that is actually making Linux ports of their older games - I don't think anybody expects other companies to do the same. However, companies don't HAVE to do 2 separate APIs. They all have the option to just use opengl, which would work on every platform, including Windows. Besides, considering how lazy developers are today, many game engines, including ones from the past 10 years, support both DX and OGL.
And no, Windows in general is considerably worse as a console. Linux has built-in support for most controllers without installing any drivers, it has several low-level tools to re-map controllers to keyboard or mouse functions (if they're even necessary), and considering how much you can customize it, you can set it up to boot directly into Big Picture Mode and not have any of the clutter of a regular desktop OS - this will make it boot much quicker and allow weaker hardware to do a good job. That being said, I expect this first steam box to have very mid-range parts. I could make a pretty good Steam-based linux OS right now that acts a lot like PS3 or Xbox360 if I really felt like it.
I do realise this, but unless Valve have managed to convince all developers to ditch DirectX then it is a waste of time and effort.
Developing for two api's will mean buggier ports and i really think if PC gaming was competing against itself it would really cause alot of harm.
Not that I think this will be competing against Windows anyway, it sounds more like an Ouya alternative.
Speaking of Windows, ignoring the added cost and closed nature of the OS, surely Windows 8 is a better choice for a large TV, controller friendly Steam console than Linux?
It appears Valve is the only company that is actually making Linux ports of their older games - I don't think anybody expects other companies to do the same. However, companies don't HAVE to do 2 separate APIs. They all have the option to just use opengl, which would work on every platform, including Windows. Besides, considering how lazy developers are today, many game engines, including ones from the past 10 years, support both DX and OGL.
And no, Windows in general is considerably worse as a console. Linux has built-in support for most controllers without installing any drivers, it has several low-level tools to re-map controllers to keyboard or mouse functions (if they're even necessary), and considering how much you can customize it, you can set it up to boot directly into Big Picture Mode and not have any of the clutter of a regular desktop OS - this will make it boot much quicker and allow weaker hardware to do a good job. That being said, I expect this first steam box to have very mid-range parts. I could make a pretty good Steam-based linux OS right now that acts a lot like PS3 or Xbox360 if I really felt like it.
Timo2
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Posts: 77
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Member
Posts: 77
Joined: 2012-10-11
#4657443 Posted on: 09/18/2013 04:50 PM
Let's face it. Win8 is the nicest OS ever made. Especially 8.1. I realize it's a business with a profit motive/responsibility to shareholders but I think MS should :
a/ Charge $20 per copy (not $120)
b/ Re-install their openGL DLLs as standard. Those things worked so well back in the day.
Windows won the battle of OS's in the 80s because anyone could write free software for it and publish. I remember the walled gardens of everyone else. Young kids hated walled gardens then and are now gravitating towards unix as a result. But games is what holds everything back.
Let's face it. Win8 is the nicest OS ever made. Especially 8.1. I realize it's a business with a profit motive/responsibility to shareholders but I think MS should :
a/ Charge $20 per copy (not $120)
b/ Re-install their openGL DLLs as standard. Those things worked so well back in the day.
Windows won the battle of OS's in the 80s because anyone could write free software for it and publish. I remember the walled gardens of everyone else. Young kids hated walled gardens then and are now gravitating towards unix as a result. But games is what holds everything back.
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lol
Im not new to the linux thing but...
install ubuntu yesterday and installed steam.
which I installed 64bit ubuntu and steam wouldnt run because it was missing 32bit librarys. so almost hour later because it was using slow mirrors to download. I was able to get steam running, only to find out only 10 of my 300 on linux.
it more work to get steam running on linux then windows