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Supermicro to further investigate Chinese espionage chips on their hardware
After the devastating article from Bloomberg, Supermicro will check its products for the presence of malicious chips. The investigation follows the publication of a controversial article stating that the Supermicro production chain would have been infiltrated by China.
"Despite the lack of evidence for the existence of a malicious chip, we carry out an extensive and time-consuming assessment," Supermicro has told its customers. The company also denies the accusation. Bloomberg published an article on October 4 in which it wrote that China would have placed microchips on Supermicro's motherboards. These products would then have ended up at thirty US companies, including Apple and Amazon.
Both companies deny the allegations.
Apple CEO Tim Cook even called on Bloomberg to withdraw the article, something the company has never done publicly before. American and British authorities also said they knew nothing about the alleged infiltration. Bloomberg has used seventeen anonymous sources for his story according to his own statements, and they remain behind his publication. Until even this moment it has not come up with additional evidence. If Bloomberg is wrong, they might have sunk SMC into a pending bankruptcy, if they are right then perhaps that is rightfully so. The CEOs of Amazon and chipmaker Supermicro, following Apple CEO Tim Cook, call for the withdrawal of the Bloomberg article about alleged espionage chips in Supermicro hardware.
Apple CEO Tim Cook called Friday in an interview with BuzzFeed News to withdraw the story, for the first time the company does something like that.
'No proof, no interest in answers'
Cook receives support from Supermicro CEO Charles Liang, who also calls for the retraction of the story. " Bloomberg has not shown any affected motherboard, we have no malicious components in our products, we have not been contacted by the government and no customer has reported malicious hardware to us," Liang said. Amazon Web Services CEO Andy Jassy also calls for the retraction of the story. "Tim Cook is right, they do not provide proof, the story keeps changing, they were not interested in our answers unless they confirmed their theories," Jassy writes on Twitter . "Bloomberg should pull it back."
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Kaarme
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#5599237 Posted on: 10/23/2018 09:29 AM
On the other hand, there's no way any of those companies would confess to having possessed compromised hardware even if they did, unless they got caught pants down by officials. It would be a nightmare to try to figure out what sort of information might have leaked and how many people would be affected. Far easier to deny everything since nobody can prove anything. I don't trust Bloomberg, which seems to have gone suspiciously silent to boot, but the world would need to be ending before I trusted the likes of Apple.
On the other hand, there's no way any of those companies would confess to having possessed compromised hardware even if they did, unless they got caught pants down by officials. It would be a nightmare to try to figure out what sort of information might have leaked and how many people would be affected. Far easier to deny everything since nobody can prove anything. I don't trust Bloomberg, which seems to have gone suspiciously silent to boot, but the world would need to be ending before I trusted the likes of Apple.
Brit90
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#5599252 Posted on: 10/23/2018 11:09 AM
The fact that the shares dropped from $21 to $12 because of this story which has lost a lot of its credibility, means Bloomberg upon being proved malicious intent, which it is. Should be paying Supermicro lots of money for compensation.
This is a scaremonger story to stop production of certain products so other people can benefit, and until real proof comes out, this is a fairytale bloomberg story.
The fact that the shares dropped from $21 to $12 because of this story which has lost a lot of its credibility, means Bloomberg upon being proved malicious intent, which it is. Should be paying Supermicro lots of money for compensation.
This is a scaremonger story to stop production of certain products so other people can benefit, and until real proof comes out, this is a fairytale bloomberg story.
Backstabak
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#5599253 Posted on: 10/23/2018 11:11 AM
It is true that Supermicro have every reason to say they are fine. This can be easily solved however, as all the Bloomberg needs to do is provide a board from them with malicious chip on. What are they waiting for ? Even though even if all of this was a hoax, I can't imagine Bloomberg never considered they would need to support their claim with some sort of proof. So, maybe we just need to wait a bit.
It is true that Supermicro have every reason to say they are fine. This can be easily solved however, as all the Bloomberg needs to do is provide a board from them with malicious chip on. What are they waiting for ? Even though even if all of this was a hoax, I can't imagine Bloomberg never considered they would need to support their claim with some sort of proof. So, maybe we just need to wait a bit.
Humanoid_1
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#5599267 Posted on: 10/23/2018 12:54 PM
Yeah really odd they would run such a Firm story without a board in hand. Cannot be so hard to lay hands on one...
on the other hand I can believe the US Gov. would pressure Apple and Amazon to cover this up to help protect US interests (SuperMicro and jobs + saving face publicly to the world) while they have already apparently removed the threat.
It could be the coverup Bloomberg are claiming...
Yeah really odd they would run such a Firm story without a board in hand. Cannot be so hard to lay hands on one...
on the other hand I can believe the US Gov. would pressure Apple and Amazon to cover this up to help protect US interests (SuperMicro and jobs + saving face publicly to the world) while they have already apparently removed the threat.
It could be the coverup Bloomberg are claiming...
fantaskarsef
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#5599313 Posted on: 10/23/2018 02:42 PM
This turn of the story tackles the journalistic issue here, claims that (yet) have not been proved true, or false for that matter. If it'd be political, the whole thing might as well have been called fake news at some point.
That said, I'm not sure if Supermicro is the only company that should do their checks. If they're infiltrated, they'd just say everything's as normal... I'd trust the answers of the biggest users, Amazon, Apple, etc. more than just the company's words who's meant to be compromised in the first place.
This turn of the story tackles the journalistic issue here, claims that (yet) have not been proved true, or false for that matter. If it'd be political, the whole thing might as well have been called fake news at some point.
That said, I'm not sure if Supermicro is the only company that should do their checks. If they're infiltrated, they'd just say everything's as normal... I'd trust the answers of the biggest users, Amazon, Apple, etc. more than just the company's words who's meant to be compromised in the first place.
Denial
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#5599321 Posted on: 10/23/2018 03:00 PM
The problem with this is that the vector of attack means that there would be evidence of the hack everywhere. That's why I found the entire thing so strange when it was first reported - the companies were outright denying it and not giving the usual "no comment".. but on the flipside Bloomberg claims it has ~15 sources including both in the industry/government whose details about the attack align. If this was a random blog or something I'd write it off - but despite what "everythingisfakenewsloololo" people think, Bloomberg is fairly reputable and I don't really see a motive for the fake story. I keep saying people say "its a political hit piece" or "malicious intent against supermicro" but neither really make any sense to me - the scope of the piece allows multiple companies to weigh in on it being fake - not just supermicro, the various details of the attack do the same, and the weight of the claims levied opens Bloomberg up for liability.
Whole story is strange to me.
On the other hand, there's no way any of those companies would confess to having possessed compromised hardware even if they did, unless they got caught pants down by officials. It would be a nightmare to try to figure out what sort of information might have leaked and how many people would be affected. Far easier to deny everything since nobody can prove anything. I don't trust Bloomberg, which seems to have gone suspiciously silent to boot, but the world would need to be ending before I trusted the likes of Apple.
The problem with this is that the vector of attack means that there would be evidence of the hack everywhere. That's why I found the entire thing so strange when it was first reported - the companies were outright denying it and not giving the usual "no comment".. but on the flipside Bloomberg claims it has ~15 sources including both in the industry/government whose details about the attack align. If this was a random blog or something I'd write it off - but despite what "everythingisfakenewsloololo" people think, Bloomberg is fairly reputable and I don't really see a motive for the fake story. I keep saying people say "its a political hit piece" or "malicious intent against supermicro" but neither really make any sense to me - the scope of the piece allows multiple companies to weigh in on it being fake - not just supermicro, the various details of the attack do the same, and the weight of the claims levied opens Bloomberg up for liability.
Whole story is strange to me.
tunejunky
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#5599322 Posted on: 10/23/2018 03:05 PM
1) when a news organization has 17 sources and corroboration from two gov'ts (U.K. & U.S.)
and does not "show the evidence", it is not from a lack of evidence, it's from national security.
2) the Pentagon (esp DARPA), has been aware of the problem of offshore manufacturing and the guaranteed penetration by state actors ever since businesses started going to China.
3) other than the technical aspects of this story, anybody who doesn't believe China has spies in every manufacturing plant is both foolish and naive and they've never been to China.
4) Supermicro is doing precisely the right thing - put on a brave face, deny everything but investigate thoroughly.
1) when a news organization has 17 sources and corroboration from two gov'ts (U.K. & U.S.)
and does not "show the evidence", it is not from a lack of evidence, it's from national security.
2) the Pentagon (esp DARPA), has been aware of the problem of offshore manufacturing and the guaranteed penetration by state actors ever since businesses started going to China.
3) other than the technical aspects of this story, anybody who doesn't believe China has spies in every manufacturing plant is both foolish and naive and they've never been to China.
4) Supermicro is doing precisely the right thing - put on a brave face, deny everything but investigate thoroughly.
WareTernal
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#5599354 Posted on: 10/23/2018 04:27 PM
1) when a news organization has 17 sources and corroboration from two gov'ts (U.K. & U.S.)
and does not "show the evidence"
'Bloomberg has used seventeen anonymous sources'
'American and British authorities also said they knew nothing about the alleged infiltration.'
I've never said this isn't possible, or even unlikely, but I'm not at all interested in stories with no evidence. If you can't back it up, then you shouldn't print it(or keep repeating it)
1) when a news organization has 17 sources and corroboration from two gov'ts (U.K. & U.S.)
and does not "show the evidence"
'Bloomberg has used seventeen anonymous sources'
'American and British authorities also said they knew nothing about the alleged infiltration.'
I've never said this isn't possible, or even unlikely, but I'm not at all interested in stories with no evidence. If you can't back it up, then you shouldn't print it(or keep repeating it)
tunejunky
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#5599364 Posted on: 10/23/2018 04:55 PM
in every newspaper or news program of any repute three independent sources are required.
whistle-blowing in particular, often means anonymity because of the power differential between a person and a group/company/corporation/nation.
when you add in the known behavior of Chinese industrial and military espionage, costing billions of dollars in Intellectual Property to leapfrog from second world status to first, why is anyone surprised at anything?
i've only said i wasn't surprised by the Bloomberg story as it is entirely credible if you've ever been to China. i've been to China and Hong Kong many times, as in more than 10. and the strong-arm tactics of the gov't re: business and IP is well known and a company is forced to transfer some technology in order to be there in the first place. whether you're General Motors, Supermicro, Apple, et al... or not.
this alleged event wasn't for that technology transfer - they have that, it was to target the end user. totalitarian states are totalitarian, so "free discourse/data/information" is antithetical to the state. the Chinese are already the most surveilled people on the face of the earth (as are the visitors there...if you look you can find the minders). why the surprise they want to gather every bit of information that they can?
in every newspaper or news program of any repute three independent sources are required.
whistle-blowing in particular, often means anonymity because of the power differential between a person and a group/company/corporation/nation.
when you add in the known behavior of Chinese industrial and military espionage, costing billions of dollars in Intellectual Property to leapfrog from second world status to first, why is anyone surprised at anything?
i've only said i wasn't surprised by the Bloomberg story as it is entirely credible if you've ever been to China. i've been to China and Hong Kong many times, as in more than 10. and the strong-arm tactics of the gov't re: business and IP is well known and a company is forced to transfer some technology in order to be there in the first place. whether you're General Motors, Supermicro, Apple, et al... or not.
this alleged event wasn't for that technology transfer - they have that, it was to target the end user. totalitarian states are totalitarian, so "free discourse/data/information" is antithetical to the state. the Chinese are already the most surveilled people on the face of the earth (as are the visitors there...if you look you can find the minders). why the surprise they want to gather every bit of information that they can?
Humanoid_1
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#5599387 Posted on: 10/23/2018 06:17 PM
in every newspaper or news program of any repute three independent sources are required.
whistle-blowing in particular, often means anonymity because of the power differential between a person and a group/company/corporation/nation.
when you add in the known behavior of Chinese industrial and military espionage, costing billions of dollars in Intellectual Property to leapfrog from second world status to first, why is anyone surprised at anything?
i've only said i wasn't surprised by the Bloomberg story as it is entirely credible if you've ever been to China. i've been to China and Hong Kong many times, as in more than 10. and the strong-arm tactics of the gov't re: business and IP is well known and a company is forced to transfer some technology in order to be there in the first place. whether you're General Motors, Supermicro, Apple, et al... or not.
this alleged event wasn't for that technology transfer - they have that, it was to target the end user. totalitarian states are totalitarian, so "free discourse/data/information" is antithetical to the state. the Chinese are already the most surveilled people on the face of the earth (as are the visitors there...if you look you can find the minders). why the surprise they want to gather every bit of information that they can?
Reminds me of a news article I saw somewhere a while back: The Chinese had hacked into a thinktanks servers and been actively perusing and stealing their IP for about a year, this intrusion was discovered finally and stopped.... the Chinese were so incensed at this that they DDoS's the thinktank's servers lol
They have hacked so many universities and companies to steal data it is just not a surprise anymore.
in every newspaper or news program of any repute three independent sources are required.
whistle-blowing in particular, often means anonymity because of the power differential between a person and a group/company/corporation/nation.
when you add in the known behavior of Chinese industrial and military espionage, costing billions of dollars in Intellectual Property to leapfrog from second world status to first, why is anyone surprised at anything?
i've only said i wasn't surprised by the Bloomberg story as it is entirely credible if you've ever been to China. i've been to China and Hong Kong many times, as in more than 10. and the strong-arm tactics of the gov't re: business and IP is well known and a company is forced to transfer some technology in order to be there in the first place. whether you're General Motors, Supermicro, Apple, et al... or not.
this alleged event wasn't for that technology transfer - they have that, it was to target the end user. totalitarian states are totalitarian, so "free discourse/data/information" is antithetical to the state. the Chinese are already the most surveilled people on the face of the earth (as are the visitors there...if you look you can find the minders). why the surprise they want to gather every bit of information that they can?
Reminds me of a news article I saw somewhere a while back: The Chinese had hacked into a thinktanks servers and been actively perusing and stealing their IP for about a year, this intrusion was discovered finally and stopped.... the Chinese were so incensed at this that they DDoS's the thinktank's servers lol
They have hacked so many universities and companies to steal data it is just not a surprise anymore.
tunejunky
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#5599484 Posted on: 10/23/2018 10:59 PM
Reminds me of a news article I saw somewhere a while back: The Chinese had hacked into a thinktanks servers and been actively perusing and stealing their IP for about a year, this intrusion was discovered finally and stopped.... the Chinese were so incensed at this that they DDoS's the thinktank's servers lol
They have hacked so many universities and companies to steal data it is just not a surprise anymore.
lol
i use a burner cell when i'm there because they monitor every frequency and often have backdoors, particularly Huawei
Reminds me of a news article I saw somewhere a while back: The Chinese had hacked into a thinktanks servers and been actively perusing and stealing their IP for about a year, this intrusion was discovered finally and stopped.... the Chinese were so incensed at this that they DDoS's the thinktank's servers lol
They have hacked so many universities and companies to steal data it is just not a surprise anymore.
lol
i use a burner cell when i'm there because they monitor every frequency and often have backdoors, particularly Huawei
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#5599492 Posted on: 10/23/2018 11:16 PM
With my specially made shiny and secure hat on, I would say IF this story turns to have any truth in it and indeed SMC was infiltrated, I bet it is specific server board batches, intended for specific servers that they were interested in, would be my guess.
That's why it could be hard to confirm its existence, since it might be only some specific boards that might or might not be affected, if the story holds some truth in it of course.
With my specially made shiny and secure hat on, I would say IF this story turns to have any truth in it and indeed SMC was infiltrated, I bet it is specific server board batches, intended for specific servers that they were interested in, would be my guess.
That's why it could be hard to confirm its existence, since it might be only some specific boards that might or might not be affected, if the story holds some truth in it of course.
sykozis
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#5599531 Posted on: 10/24/2018 03:35 AM
1) when a news organization has 17 sources and corroboration from two gov'ts (U.K. & U.S.)
and does not "show the evidence", it is not from a lack of evidence, it's from national security.
Not a single one of their "anonymous sources" have been confirmed by anyone but Bloomberg.
This "corroboration from two gov'ts" doesn't seem to hold up as both Gov'ts have stated that they have ZERO knowledge of the claims.
Bloomberg has refused to provide any data to SuperMicro, Amazon or Apple. If the story was ligitimate, they wouldn't have a problem doing so. Even the security firm that did the audit of the systems says the story is a load of crap.
When a "news" organization sites numerous "anonymous" sources and refuses to provide any evidence to support the claim to anyone, be it readers or the supposedly affected organizations, the story is fake.
You can spout your Anti-China rhetoric all you want, but until Bloomberg provides actual evidence of their claims or provides the name of these supposed "anonymous sources", there's no reason to believe anything they print.
1) when a news organization has 17 sources and corroboration from two gov'ts (U.K. & U.S.)
and does not "show the evidence", it is not from a lack of evidence, it's from national security.
Not a single one of their "anonymous sources" have been confirmed by anyone but Bloomberg.
This "corroboration from two gov'ts" doesn't seem to hold up as both Gov'ts have stated that they have ZERO knowledge of the claims.
Bloomberg has refused to provide any data to SuperMicro, Amazon or Apple. If the story was ligitimate, they wouldn't have a problem doing so. Even the security firm that did the audit of the systems says the story is a load of crap.
When a "news" organization sites numerous "anonymous" sources and refuses to provide any evidence to support the claim to anyone, be it readers or the supposedly affected organizations, the story is fake.
You can spout your Anti-China rhetoric all you want, but until Bloomberg provides actual evidence of their claims or provides the name of these supposed "anonymous sources", there's no reason to believe anything they print.
fantaskarsef
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#5599547 Posted on: 10/24/2018 06:42 AM
1) when a news organization has 17 sources and corroboration from two gov'ts (U.K. & U.S.)
and does not "show the evidence", it is not from a lack of evidence, it's from national security.
2) the Pentagon (esp DARPA), has been aware of the problem of offshore manufacturing and the guaranteed penetration by state actors ever since businesses started going to China.
3) other than the technical aspects of this story, anybody who doesn't believe China has spies in every manufacturing plant is both foolish and naive and they've never been to China.
4) Supermicro is doing precisely the right thing - put on a brave face, deny everything but investigate thoroughly.
1. might be or might not be, sources not made available might still be made up, ESPECIALLY when it's government sources and interests beyond security, such as trade wars (you notice where I'm going?) are a thing. Like tariffs because of "national security" which is utter rubbish also.
2. if they know, warned, cried, why did they never impose a law that they need to have manufacturing in the US if companies want to supply to the government in the first place? It's not like the US would not need enough hardware with the "war on terror" that in the last 17 years nobody could have built a plant there, if the so smart goverment and three letter organisations are so sure that something's happening in China.
3. oh I do believe they have spies there. You think the US haven't gotten spies in China that are supposed to make sure nothing goes wrong with what the US need from over there? If not, why not? Have you ever been to China, I'm asking out of curiosity?
4. Supermicro was never the issue there, but more likely Bloomberg bringing out a story that not only destroys company's worth, but also actively works against any counter intelligency trying to catch the people responsible for such placements of "control" chips in hardware that's targeted to be compromised. If somebody really was trying to catch the people responsible for such an issue, it would only be logical to NOT say anything about it until AFTER they solved the issue. If not, they're trusting on the Chinese "infiltrators" to stop their doing just because somebody said they're doing it. To believe that would also be naive.
1) when a news organization has 17 sources and corroboration from two gov'ts (U.K. & U.S.)
and does not "show the evidence", it is not from a lack of evidence, it's from national security.
2) the Pentagon (esp DARPA), has been aware of the problem of offshore manufacturing and the guaranteed penetration by state actors ever since businesses started going to China.
3) other than the technical aspects of this story, anybody who doesn't believe China has spies in every manufacturing plant is both foolish and naive and they've never been to China.
4) Supermicro is doing precisely the right thing - put on a brave face, deny everything but investigate thoroughly.
1. might be or might not be, sources not made available might still be made up, ESPECIALLY when it's government sources and interests beyond security, such as trade wars (you notice where I'm going?) are a thing. Like tariffs because of "national security" which is utter rubbish also.
2. if they know, warned, cried, why did they never impose a law that they need to have manufacturing in the US if companies want to supply to the government in the first place? It's not like the US would not need enough hardware with the "war on terror" that in the last 17 years nobody could have built a plant there, if the so smart goverment and three letter organisations are so sure that something's happening in China.
3. oh I do believe they have spies there. You think the US haven't gotten spies in China that are supposed to make sure nothing goes wrong with what the US need from over there? If not, why not? Have you ever been to China, I'm asking out of curiosity?
4. Supermicro was never the issue there, but more likely Bloomberg bringing out a story that not only destroys company's worth, but also actively works against any counter intelligency trying to catch the people responsible for such placements of "control" chips in hardware that's targeted to be compromised. If somebody really was trying to catch the people responsible for such an issue, it would only be logical to NOT say anything about it until AFTER they solved the issue. If not, they're trusting on the Chinese "infiltrators" to stop their doing just because somebody said they're doing it. To believe that would also be naive.
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Last sentence is worded wrongly: "Bloomberg should pull it back."
No proof article like this from company which is trusted by so many = malicious intent.
Wording should have been: "Bloomberg should be put down."
Because they apparently misused power they did not deserve. 0 responsibility = 0 right to have power.