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Intel Kaby Lake and AMD Zen processors to only support Windows 10 and Unix
News hits the web on multiple websites today that it seems likely that both AMD ZEN and Intel's Kaby lake processors are to only support Windows 10 and Unix compatible operating systems. That would be bad news for the guys still on Windows 7 looking forward to an upgrade.
The news hits the web today through PC Gamer. Microsoft already announced this news earlier this year, but we didn't know about ZEN on this one. It makes sense though but yes, Microsoft is planning to only support the new processors on Windows 10 (so this is not an AMD or Intel thing). Basically Microsoft will not support the new processors on older operating systems. While I do believe the standard instruction sets should be supported, the niche multi-media functions etc thus should not be. So it remains to be seen how compatible these processors are going to be.
"Windows 10 will be the only supported Windows platform on Intel's upcoming 'Kaby Lake' silicon, Qualcomm's upcoming '8996' silicon, and AMD's upcoming 'Bristol Ridge' silicon," Microsoft stated in a blog post earlier this year.
"As new silicon generations are introduced, they will require the latest Windows platform at that time for support,” a Microsoft spokeswoman stated. "This enables us to focus on deep integration between Windows and the silicon, while maintaining maximum reliability and compatibility with previous generations of platform and silicon."
So, what happens if you install a Kaby Lake processor in a desktop PC running Windows 7? Good question—nobody knows outside of Microsoft and Intel, and until the CPUs are out in the wild, no one will have the opportunity to try it out. One unnamed source told PCWorld that without support and security updates, his guess is that the experience would be "a bit glitchy." Another surmised that certain apps trying to use features built into the chips could crash. Even if you can get the OS installed, it would likely be a sub-optimal experience at best.
There's not a whole lot Intel and AMD are saying about this. Both chipmakers provided canned responses when asked for thoughts on the subject, with Intel confirming it has no plans on updating Windows 7 and Windows 8/8.1 drivers for Kaby Lake "per Microsoft's support policy change."
Obviously everything not Microsoft will support the processors like *nix distributions such as ChromeOS, SteamOS, and OS X.
scr3am
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#5329605 Posted on: 09/02/2016 07:38 AM
Just because it is not officially "supported" doesn't mean windows 7 won't work, just won't be able to complain if you have problems. Just a clever way to trick everyone into buying new windows 10 licenses.
Just because it is not officially "supported" doesn't mean windows 7 won't work, just won't be able to complain if you have problems. Just a clever way to trick everyone into buying new windows 10 licenses.
Hilbert Hagedoorn
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#5329610 Posted on: 09/02/2016 07:52 AM
I can see the CPU work, but simply not optimized for the OS ? In more advanced stages you could see similarities with Windows XP, for example ever since I think it was Haswell, Windows XP simply refused to install on that processor.
But I do think it'll work, but comparable to older graphics card, an an optimized legacy status. Not sure though, time tell.
I can see the CPU work, but simply not optimized for the OS ? In more advanced stages you could see similarities with Windows XP, for example ever since I think it was Haswell, Windows XP simply refused to install on that processor.
But I do think it'll work, but comparable to older graphics card, an an optimized legacy status. Not sure though, time tell.
cryohellinc
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#5329617 Posted on: 09/02/2016 08:10 AM
Good, i find this as a positive notion. This will allow to get maximum optimization for latest system and provide ease for both developers of OS and Software to optimise it in order to make it work optimally, instead of wasting resources trying to make it compatible.
Windows 7 is old and dated, besides using it for work on some older application / machine GUI's e.t.c. that were not updated for YEARS (same as some companies using Win 95/ 98/ ME/ XP, for that same purpose) there is absolutely 0 reasons for not moving to New OS - Win X in our case.
While i personally probably wont upgrade to 7700k processor, and rather wait for next 10nm generation, a lot of people will upgrade, and i see this as a great benefit for them!
Good, i find this as a positive notion. This will allow to get maximum optimization for latest system and provide ease for both developers of OS and Software to optimise it in order to make it work optimally, instead of wasting resources trying to make it compatible.
Windows 7 is old and dated, besides using it for work on some older application / machine GUI's e.t.c. that were not updated for YEARS (same as some companies using Win 95/ 98/ ME/ XP, for that same purpose) there is absolutely 0 reasons for not moving to New OS - Win X in our case.
While i personally probably wont upgrade to 7700k processor, and rather wait for next 10nm generation, a lot of people will upgrade, and i see this as a great benefit for them!
thatguy91
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#5329625 Posted on: 09/02/2016 08:43 AM
I agree. It's likely that Windows 7 and 8.1 could still work with the new processors, you just won't be able to use any of the new instructions. However, the CPU will probably not be recognised by the OS either, seeing as Windows does load CPU 'drivers' which mostly relate to microcode etc. Look under device manager, processors, you will see that for Intel (example) that there is intelppm.sys for Intel CPU's, and amdk8.sys or amdppm.sys for AMD processors.
If you run Windows 7 or 8.1 with Kaby Lake or Zen, it will likely just mean you will see a yellow exclamation mark in the device manager. I'm not sure what happens in this case, quite possibly you won't have access to anything but the base required extensions? If they did add support for these devices, as long as the new instructions don't affect registers then it will be possible. I don't believe any of the new instructions on Kaby Lake or Zen require a new kernel like was required with AVX, neither support AVX-512 from what I know of (that will be added later to the standard CPU's).
In any case, even if they did add 'support' for it on Windows 7 and 8.1, they won't go to the extent of adding support for other new features of the CPU and motherboard. They gain nothing doing so, and support for Windows 7 and 8.1 has been pretty good considering almost any other company would have dropped support from them pretty much straight after a new version comes out apart from security updates.
Well not a big problem really, old cpu-s support windows<10 so not a big deal anyone who wants new cpu will use win 10 and newest mobos 
I agree. It's likely that Windows 7 and 8.1 could still work with the new processors, you just won't be able to use any of the new instructions. However, the CPU will probably not be recognised by the OS either, seeing as Windows does load CPU 'drivers' which mostly relate to microcode etc. Look under device manager, processors, you will see that for Intel (example) that there is intelppm.sys for Intel CPU's, and amdk8.sys or amdppm.sys for AMD processors.
If you run Windows 7 or 8.1 with Kaby Lake or Zen, it will likely just mean you will see a yellow exclamation mark in the device manager. I'm not sure what happens in this case, quite possibly you won't have access to anything but the base required extensions? If they did add support for these devices, as long as the new instructions don't affect registers then it will be possible. I don't believe any of the new instructions on Kaby Lake or Zen require a new kernel like was required with AVX, neither support AVX-512 from what I know of (that will be added later to the standard CPU's).
In any case, even if they did add 'support' for it on Windows 7 and 8.1, they won't go to the extent of adding support for other new features of the CPU and motherboard. They gain nothing doing so, and support for Windows 7 and 8.1 has been pretty good considering almost any other company would have dropped support from them pretty much straight after a new version comes out apart from security updates.
BLEH!
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#5329627 Posted on: 09/02/2016 08:44 AM
It'd be nice if Windows 10 supported my rather expensive external soundcard, which it doesn't...
It'd be nice if Windows 10 supported my rather expensive external soundcard, which it doesn't...
Kaarme
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#5329628 Posted on: 09/02/2016 08:47 AM
If you build a totally new Windows machine, I reckon Win10 is the only way to go at that point anyway, with dx12 games increading rapidly, and ultimately new software and hardware shifting to it. Those who didn't upgrade their old license during the free period knew what they were doing, likely far better than many of those who did just because of the incessant MS nagging.
If you build a totally new Windows machine, I reckon Win10 is the only way to go at that point anyway, with dx12 games increading rapidly, and ultimately new software and hardware shifting to it. Those who didn't upgrade their old license during the free period knew what they were doing, likely far better than many of those who did just because of the incessant MS nagging.
Bleib
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#5329630 Posted on: 09/02/2016 08:50 AM
Remember that a lot of people have zero interest in games and DX12..
It's of course good if MS can focus on fewer OS but it's far from optimal to be forced to "upgrade" for a huge number of people.
Remember that a lot of people have zero interest in games and DX12..
It's of course good if MS can focus on fewer OS but it's far from optimal to be forced to "upgrade" for a huge number of people.
bloodfx
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#5329633 Posted on: 09/02/2016 09:03 AM
Move to cripple steam OS I reckon?
Move to cripple steam OS I reckon?
Mica
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#5329634 Posted on: 09/02/2016 09:04 AM
Who cares about a 7 years old Operating System? I mean, move on guys...
Who cares about a 7 years old Operating System? I mean, move on guys...
fellix
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#5329637 Posted on: 09/02/2016 09:08 AM
The issue is not really with the CPU vendors, but with the OS support for the new and upcoming hardware features and extensions (power management, new instruction sets, IGP, etc.), i.e. things not concerning baseline capabilities. As long a CPU architecture is labeled "x86-compatible", it can boot and run any software from the last 30 years. As the CPUs become more like SoC, with a lot of closely integrated functionalities, sharing common resources (memory, caches, machine states), the older operating systems will not be worth the investment to bring all those "peripheral" goodies to them. For the most, it will simply be impossible.
Windows XP will run fine on Zen and KL, just with most of the advanced features sitting idle and unused. Only benefiting from whatever incremental improvements are made to the baseline ISA (memory, cache, branch prediction and op's execution).
The issue is not really with the CPU vendors, but with the OS support for the new and upcoming hardware features and extensions (power management, new instruction sets, IGP, etc.), i.e. things not concerning baseline capabilities. As long a CPU architecture is labeled "x86-compatible", it can boot and run any software from the last 30 years. As the CPUs become more like SoC, with a lot of closely integrated functionalities, sharing common resources (memory, caches, machine states), the older operating systems will not be worth the investment to bring all those "peripheral" goodies to them. For the most, it will simply be impossible.
Windows XP will run fine on Zen and KL, just with most of the advanced features sitting idle and unused. Only benefiting from whatever incremental improvements are made to the baseline ISA (memory, cache, branch prediction and op's execution).
TDurden
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#5329639 Posted on: 09/02/2016 09:10 AM
I am sure enthusiasts will find a way to make it work if they want to use W7. Windows 7 refused to install on Skylake already, showing nonsense error about optical drives while in reality it requires a simple USB 3.0 drive integration into installation media..
Some features like new instructions will probably be not supported.
AFAIK Windows 10 is already the only Windows version that support Intel Speed Shift debuted in Skylake CPUs.
I am sure enthusiasts will find a way to make it work if they want to use W7. Windows 7 refused to install on Skylake already, showing nonsense error about optical drives while in reality it requires a simple USB 3.0 drive integration into installation media..
Some features like new instructions will probably be not supported.
AFAIK Windows 10 is already the only Windows version that support Intel Speed Shift debuted in Skylake CPUs.
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#5329643 Posted on: 09/02/2016 09:17 AM
with change in instruction set supported and removal of old one so the OS think it is not a CPU made for him...
Remember the drama when nearly all OS were needing 100% SSE to work and AMD Athlon have only partial??? now no one complain neither on M$ Windows or Linux. (more recentely with Pentium Anniversary despite patched on windows just after)
HOW does a CPU NOT support an older operating system, it just carries out a bunch of instructions?
with change in instruction set supported and removal of old one so the OS think it is not a CPU made for him...
Remember the drama when nearly all OS were needing 100% SSE to work and AMD Athlon have only partial??? now no one complain neither on M$ Windows or Linux. (more recentely with Pentium Anniversary despite patched on windows just after)
Fender178
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#5329647 Posted on: 09/02/2016 09:28 AM
To me what it boils down to is not just CPU compatibility and optimization with older OSes but down to Motherboard manufactures creating drivers for the old Oses like Windows 7. There has to be a cut off point somewhere. I think when ever users decide to upgrade their cpus to either a Kirby-Lake cpu or a Zen cpu they may want Windows 10 because there is nothing wrong with it after certain tweaks are applied.
To me what it boils down to is not just CPU compatibility and optimization with older OSes but down to Motherboard manufactures creating drivers for the old Oses like Windows 7. There has to be a cut off point somewhere. I think when ever users decide to upgrade their cpus to either a Kirby-Lake cpu or a Zen cpu they may want Windows 10 because there is nothing wrong with it after certain tweaks are applied.
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#5329649 Posted on: 09/02/2016 09:36 AM
I could understand if we were talking about old OSes not being supported by Zen and Kaby Lake, like Windows 98 or XP.
But one would expect support for recent OS like Windows 7, 8 and 8.1. These OS are still being used by millions of people, especially Windows 7.
How can it be that the only supported OS is only one year old?
This is clearly a scheme from Microsoft to force users to upgrade to Windows 10. I wouldn't be surprised if there is some kind of deal made under the table, where MS was paying AMD and Intel to end support for OS that are not Windows 10.
I could understand if we were talking about old OSes not being supported by Zen and Kaby Lake, like Windows 98 or XP.
But one would expect support for recent OS like Windows 7, 8 and 8.1. These OS are still being used by millions of people, especially Windows 7.
How can it be that the only supported OS is only one year old?
This is clearly a scheme from Microsoft to force users to upgrade to Windows 10. I wouldn't be surprised if there is some kind of deal made under the table, where MS was paying AMD and Intel to end support for OS that are not Windows 10.
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HOW does a CPU NOT support an older operating system, it just carries out a bunch of instructions?