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NVIDIA Next Gen-GPU Hopper could be offered in chiplet design
Next years Nvidia Ampere GPUs have not yet even been announced and now the supposedly next-generation chip generation Hopper info already spreads on the web, Hopper could be based on a multi-die design, you know chiplets.
Hopper (Grace Hopper) is the name of yet another mathematician being applied to architecture. She has been involved in groundbreaking projects, such as the Mark I super-computer (at the time) at Harvard University, and revolutionized computer science with the first high-level programming language COBOL. Now her name is supposed to adorn Nvidia's next-generation GPU: The Hopper architecture is to follow Ampere (presumably RTX 3000) and be manufactured in chiplet (MCM) design.
MCM design scale less for GPUs, think a little about SLI for example and the problems that come with it. However, it also offers significant advantages in production. The larger a chip is, the higher the risk of production error that can render the chip completely unusable (yields). MCM can create far larger packages than the limitations of one chip alone, so they are very scalable. It might be a trend for graphics chips. However, these are for the time being unconfirmed rumors, all of them.
Photo NVIDIA: 36-chip MCM prototype
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Something is brewing at Nvidia for sure. During Sunday-Tuesday, August 19-21, 2018 the Hot Chips convention is taking place. The conference agenda slash program is made public, and on the first con...
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Remember the GeForce GTX cooler photo that appeared a while ago ? Interesting find, as that photo and thus the design might be the real deal. Nvidia today added a background skin to one of the micro-s...
Nvidia not going to support VESA Adaptive Sync - 09/25/2014 08:51 AM
There’s a bit controversy breaking on the web which I wanted to write a few words on. Last week some website posted that Nvidia would be adding VESA Adaptive Sync support to their graphics c...
anticupidon
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#5732806 Posted on: 11/19/2019 09:08 AM
royalties from using chiplet design could give AMD some laughter all the way to the bank...
just saying
royalties from using chiplet design could give AMD some laughter all the way to the bank...
just saying
Astyanax
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#5732807 Posted on: 11/19/2019 09:09 AM
amd didn't patent chiplets.
They patented how THEY did chiplets, but theirs is not the only possible way
amd didn't patent chiplets.
They patented how THEY did chiplets, but theirs is not the only possible way
Venix
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#5732809 Posted on: 11/19/2019 09:14 AM
royalties from using chiplet design could give AMD some laughter all the way to the bank...
just saying
i do not think that's something that can be put in a patent you have multiple chips for a specific job ... would be like ...say Ford patenting the simultaneous use of more than 1 wheel ! so if you want to make something more than a unicycle ..... pay royalties !
royalties from using chiplet design could give AMD some laughter all the way to the bank...
just saying
i do not think that's something that can be put in a patent you have multiple chips for a specific job ... would be like ...say Ford patenting the simultaneous use of more than 1 wheel ! so if you want to make something more than a unicycle ..... pay royalties !
anticupidon
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#5732822 Posted on: 11/19/2019 10:07 AM
Was a crossbreed between sarcasm, joke and wishful thinking
Was a crossbreed between sarcasm, joke and wishful thinking
fantaskarsef
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#5732826 Posted on: 11/19/2019 10:27 AM
Maybe they do have some IP in terms of techs that reduce latency etc., but I am not an electrical engineer. I wouldn't understand the details even if I had the papers in hand.
That said, I'm sure Nvidia has enough R&D money to come up with some way to make it work.
I don't see this arriving too soon, and not on consumer GPUs first, so it will probably be some years until we can put that stuff from the green brand into our rigs.
Maybe they do have some IP in terms of techs that reduce latency etc., but I am not an electrical engineer. I wouldn't understand the details even if I had the papers in hand.
That said, I'm sure Nvidia has enough R&D money to come up with some way to make it work.
I don't see this arriving too soon, and not on consumer GPUs first, so it will probably be some years until we can put that stuff from the green brand into our rigs.
rl66
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#5732827 Posted on: 11/19/2019 10:28 AM
What we call "chiplet" have been used by everyone since many decade, it's not from AMD at all they have just patended how they link their own chip, and exept them no one use this way (from my own thinking it is not the best way, mobile chip maker do if far more effective and economic).
It's a nice move for having CPU that better fit consumer's need, i hope to see both GPU brand result soon.
What we call "chiplet" have been used by everyone since many decade, it's not from AMD at all they have just patended how they link their own chip, and exept them no one use this way (from my own thinking it is not the best way, mobile chip maker do if far more effective and economic).
It's a nice move for having CPU that better fit consumer's need, i hope to see both GPU brand result soon.
nevcairiel
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#5732831 Posted on: 11/19/2019 10:39 AM
NVIDIA has been producing white-papers on chiplets for GPUs for years, but as the original article mentions, for GPUs you have a lot of problems with scaling, otherwise they would've done it long before AMD even launched Zen. If they managed to solve that, that is a big step forwards.
So I guess AMD are onto something 
NVIDIA has been producing white-papers on chiplets for GPUs for years, but as the original article mentions, for GPUs you have a lot of problems with scaling, otherwise they would've done it long before AMD even launched Zen. If they managed to solve that, that is a big step forwards.
rl66
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#5732832 Posted on: 11/19/2019 10:39 AM
Maybe they do have some IP in terms of techs that reduce latency etc., but I am not an electrical engineer. I wouldn't understand the details even if I had the papers in hand.
That said, I'm sure Nvidia has enough R&D money to come up with some way to make it work.
I don't see this arriving too soon, and not on consumer GPUs first, so it will probably be some years until we can put that stuff from the green brand into our rigs.
The technique will improve the versatility of the fabric, on the same fabric process you could made high end, main, and low end GPU as they all have the same basis, a bit like with same PCB you can have Gt 1030, Quadro and RTX 2080 Ti so production will be easy.
Also this technique permit to "integrate" CPU and other fonction if it is compatible with the process (used in mobile and car as an exemple).
Those are the pro arguments... (of course there is con arguments too )
Maybe they do have some IP in terms of techs that reduce latency etc., but I am not an electrical engineer. I wouldn't understand the details even if I had the papers in hand.
That said, I'm sure Nvidia has enough R&D money to come up with some way to make it work.
I don't see this arriving too soon, and not on consumer GPUs first, so it will probably be some years until we can put that stuff from the green brand into our rigs.
The technique will improve the versatility of the fabric, on the same fabric process you could made high end, main, and low end GPU as they all have the same basis, a bit like with same PCB you can have Gt 1030, Quadro and RTX 2080 Ti so production will be easy.
Also this technique permit to "integrate" CPU and other fonction if it is compatible with the process (used in mobile and car as an exemple).
Those are the pro arguments... (of course there is con arguments too
)
rl66
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#5732833 Posted on: 11/19/2019 10:42 AM
For CPU the 1st to have done it was Intel, but it haven't be a commercial success, the technology wasn't as precise as actual days.
NVIDIA has been producing white-papers on chiplets for GPUs for years, but as the original article mentions, for GPUs you have a lot of problems with scaling, otherwise they would've done it long before AMD even launched Zen. If they managed to solve that, that is a big step forwards.
For CPU the 1st to have done it was Intel, but it haven't be a commercial success, the technology wasn't as precise as actual days.
barbacot
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#5732836 Posted on: 11/19/2019 10:50 AM
Yes, on something that Intel and Nvidia already tried before.
In an interview Jonah Alben, svp of Nvidia’s GPU engineering said:
The interview is here: https://semiengineering.com/the-future-of-gpus and it is very interesting - it gives some facts from the people involved and not rumors.
So I guess AMD are onto something
Yes, on something that Intel and Nvidia already tried before
.In an interview Jonah Alben, svp of Nvidia’s GPU engineering said:
where is the crossover point for GPU chiplets to actually become worthwhile? To which Alben replied, “We haven’t hit it yet...”
The interview is here: https://semiengineering.com/the-future-of-gpus and it is very interesting - it gives some facts from the people involved and not rumors.
Astyanax
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#5732843 Posted on: 11/19/2019 11:07 AM
Maybe they do have some IP in terms of techs that reduce latency etc., but I am not an electrical engineer. I wouldn't understand the details even if I had the papers in hand.
That said, I'm sure Nvidia has enough R&D money to come up with some way to make it work.
I don't see this arriving too soon, and not on consumer GPUs first, so it will probably be some years until we can put that stuff from the green brand into our rigs.
nvidia has been doing MCM communications long before AMD started,.
Maybe they do have some IP in terms of techs that reduce latency etc., but I am not an electrical engineer. I wouldn't understand the details even if I had the papers in hand.
That said, I'm sure Nvidia has enough R&D money to come up with some way to make it work.
I don't see this arriving too soon, and not on consumer GPUs first, so it will probably be some years until we can put that stuff from the green brand into our rigs.
nvidia has been doing MCM communications long before AMD started,.
barbacot
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#5732849 Posted on: 11/19/2019 11:20 AM
Also, on a funny note Nvidia’s CEO, Jen-Hsun Huang - the leather jacket king - claims that Nvidia has just “created a brand-new game platform: notebook PC gaming.”
So, nvidia just invented notebook pc gaming - these are historical times!
Also, on a funny note Nvidia’s CEO, Jen-Hsun Huang - the leather jacket king - claims that Nvidia has just “created a brand-new game platform: notebook PC gaming.”
So, nvidia just invented notebook pc gaming - these are historical times!
kakiharaFRS
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#5732850 Posted on: 11/19/2019 11:22 AM
if Intel could follow and stop making tiny chips having 200w to dissipate that would be great too
my 9900k goes from 90°C to 37°C in like 3s with an AIO when I stop benchmarking so clearly it's not that the loop doesn't work, just that the surface is too small to dissipate that heat properly
if Intel could follow and stop making tiny chips having 200w to dissipate that would be great too
my 9900k goes from 90°C to 37°C in like 3s with an AIO when I stop benchmarking so clearly it's not that the loop doesn't work, just that the surface is too small to dissipate that heat properly
fantaskarsef
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#5732851 Posted on: 11/19/2019 11:23 AM
Yeah I was reminded by fellow gurus and posts of that. Also, they put in another 100 million $ in R&D as I've heard lately. Like I said, they have the money to do this, I don't doubt it. I guess it's more a question of what advantages it brings than if they could do that.
nvidia has been doing MCM communications long before AMD started,.
Yeah I was reminded by fellow gurus and posts of that. Also, they put in another 100 million $ in R&D as I've heard lately. Like I said, they have the money to do this, I don't doubt it. I guess it's more a question of what advantages it brings than if they could do that.
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So I guess AMD are onto something