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Three million add-in boards (AIBs) were sold to cryptocurrency miners in 2017
In a report published by Jon Peddie Research overall GPU shipments in the fourth quarter of 2017 decreased -1.5% from last quarter, however, the reports denotes that more than three million video cards have been sold to crypto miners in 2017, making AMD and Nvidia about $776 million.
It is also mentioned that the prices of video cards will not decrease short term, which in fact has recently been confirmed by Nvidia over at Massdrop. Prices would continue to rise during the second and third quarters, according to Nvidia. The shortage contributes to this.
-- JPR --
YEAR-TO-YEAR TOTAL GPU SHIPMENTS DECREASED -4.8%
Jon Peddie Research the industry’s market research firm reported that overall GPU shipments in the fourth quarter of 2017 decreased -1.5% from last quarter following normal seasonal shipments. Year-to-year total GPU shipments decreased -4.8%, desktop graphics decreased -2%, notebooks decreased -7%. Over 363 graphics units shipped in 2017.
AMD increased its market share 8.1%, Nvidia decreased -6%, and Intel decreased -2%.
| Table 1: Graphics Chip Market shares |
Over three million add-in boards (AIBs) were sold to cryptocurrency miners worth $776 million in 2017. AMD was the primary benefactor of those sales.
| Table 2: Graphics Chip Market |
The fourth quarter is typically flat to slightly up from the previous quarter in the seasonal cycles of the past. For Q4'17, it decreased -1.5% from last quarter and was above the ten-year average of -3.40%.
“Gaming has been and will continue to be the primary driver for GPU sales, augmented by the demand from cryptocurrency miners.,” said Dr. Jon Peddie, President of Jon Peddie research. We expect demand to slacken from the miners as margins drop in response increasingly utilities costs and supply and demand forces that drive up AIB prices. Gamers can offset those costs by mining when not gaming, but prices will not drop in the near future.”
Quick highlights
- AMD’s overall unit shipments increased 8.08% quarter-to-quarter, Intel’s total shipments decreased -1.98% from last quarter, and Nvidia’s decreased -6.00%.
- The attach rate of GPUs (includes integrated and discrete GPUs) to PCs for the quarter was 134% which was down -10.06% from last quarter.
- Discrete GPUs were in 36.88% of PCs, which is down -2.67%.
- The overall PC market increased 5.93% quarter-to-quarter, and decreased -0.15% year-to-year.
- Desktop graphics add-in boards (AIBs) that use discrete GPUs decreased -4.62% from last quarter.
- Q4'17 saw no change in tablet shipments from last quarter.
GPUs are traditionally a leading indicator of the market, since a GPU goes into every system before it is shipped, and most of the PC vendors are guiding cautiously for Q1’18. Findings include discrete and integrated graphics (CPU and chipset) for Desktops, Notebooks (and Netbooks). It does not include iPad and Android-based tablets, or ARM-based Servers, or x86-based servers. It does include x86-based tablets, Chromebooks, and embedded systems.
GPUs are traditionally a leading indicator of the market, since a GPU goes into every non-server system before it is shipped, and most of the PC vendors are guiding cautiously for Q4’14. The Gaming PC segment, where higher-end GPUs are used, was a bright spot in the market in the quarter.
For those who wish to understand the PC market, an understanding of the highly complex technology and ecosystem that has been built around the GPU is essential to understanding the market’s future directions.
The report contains the following content:
- Worldwide GPU and PC Shipment Volume, 1994 to 2020.
- Detailed worldwide GPU Shipment Volume, 1Q 2001 to 2Q 2016, and forecast to 2020.
- Major suppliers: Detailed market share data-on the shipments of AMD, Intel, Nvidia, and others.
- Financial results for the leading suppliers: Analysis of the quarterly results of the leading GPU suppliers
- Market Forecasts: You will also be able to download a detailed spreadsheet and supporting charts that project the supplier’s shipments over the period 2001 to 2018. Projections are split into platforms and GPU type.
- GPUs: History, Status, and Analysis.
- Financial History from for the last nine quarter: Based on historic SEC filings, you can see current and historical sales and profit results of the leading suppliers.
- A Vision of the future: Building upon a solid foundation of facts, data and sober analysis, this section pulls together all of the report's findings and paints a vivid picture of where the PC graphics market is headed.
- Charts, graphics, tables and more: Included with this report is an Excel workbook. It contains the data we used to create the charts in this report. The workbook has the charts and supplemental information.
D3M1G0D
Senior Member
Posts: 2068
Joined: 2017-03-10
Senior Member
Posts: 2068
Joined: 2017-03-10
#5524774 Posted on: 03/02/2018 05:07 PM
Well an investment that takes "months" to pay off is way faster and way more profitable than anything you can do in real life, except your giving out mobster loans. It's not even as bothersome as short time trading as you just set the rig up and let it run, do whatever you want, no more work needed to produce your "goods". You are right, it is like any financial investment, I do not say you are wrong with that. But it has way lower short term risk than anything else I know (again, feel free to educate me, I am here to learn too). As to the volatility of the crypto market, if you build a mining rig you basically have your money's worth in months, like you said.
What's there to lose? You hardware will 99% run that long, and it's a system that basically has no ceiling (well, bitcoin does by limiting the coins in total, ETH for instance is endlessly minable, right?), so there actually is only the risk of the price of ETH or whatever you mine. And those are volatile, yes, but in practice it only makes you wonder if you pass your break even point after x months or x+2 months... the most of the investment you take to run that thing is electricity (see it like paying the costs for keeping your depot of shares and stocks at the bank).
I guess the highest risk you can have is that you have a higher electricity bill, that you might have to resell your hardware for a lower price (I doubt you'll ever make a loss on that hardware + what you earned in mining). But you can make thousands and more of $ by that. If you go for traditional stocks etc. you can lose everything you put in for no gain at all... you can't build a mining rig that doesn't at least bring you a little bit of money. You can't go down to 0, nothing anymore once the rig did some cycles and produced some cryptos. I have yet to see a single report of a miner that lost money... you see daily reports of stocks that just take money with them when they crash. So it's easy to say that mining has a lot lower risk in reality. Although the gains you produce are volatile and change, you never go out with nothing until the bubble explodes. WHEN it does at some time in the future, if it ever happens, only the stupid ones still got their money in it (basic guide line in life: never be the first or the last at the party).
Again, like I said, feel free to educate me and help me to learn more if I am wrong. But the way I see it, you can't do anything "wrong" and you can't lose all your money if you put it into mining. Also the gains are in no relation to what you put in in terms of money, so it's even more of a bubble than anything else. At least in the start real money was based on gold reserves and a national economy that guaranteed to pay any debts, with mining you just buy the rig, make money, not much more to see for me there.
The ROI depends on the price. When the cryptocurrency market was at $700bn you could pay off a 1080 Ti in about three or four months. At current prices it will take a bit under a year to pay off, and that's not counting electricity costs (tack on a few more months for that, depending on your rate). The mining difficulty also increases as more people get involved so your profits will shrink with time, so it could be well over a year before you see a single cent in profits. And if the crypto market crashes completely before that point, then you'll most likely have to take a loss - it might be possible to recoup some of the costs by selling the GPUs, but by then the second-hand market will be flooded with them so you won't be able to get a good price for them.
If I buy a stock, and that stock goes up 2%, then I'm already sitting on a profit. Even if things go south I can easily sell the stock and minimize my losses, which cannot be said for a mining rig. Stocks also don't incur running costs to hold (assuming you didn't buy on margin, of course), and don't require maintenance and upkeep. If someone had a lot of money and wanted to make it grow, I would advise them to buy stocks or mutual funds - I would NOT advise them to buy a mining rig. Opinions might differ, but speaking as someone who owns stocks and mines on the side, I would say mining is the riskier proposition (at least with stocks you can choose safer, blue chip stocks to invest in, but all cryptos are a gamble).
Mining is not some easy get-rich-quick scheme that has no risk. A small-time home miner still needs a regular full-time job to make ends meet, and most of them mine to make some extra money on the side or as an investment. Those who decide to get involved will most likely spend all of their reserves or go deeply into debt, hoping to benefit some time in the future. To get into cryptos in any form requires risk-taking and needs a big commitment in money and resources. I mean, if you want a completely safe investment then T-bills or money market funds would be the way to go, not cryptos.
Note that this only applies to those who build/buy a rig specifically for mining. For people who already have powerful GPUs for gaming or productivity, mining incurs little risk - if cryptos do well then you can sell the mined coins for a good price, and if cryptos crash then you can stop mining and go back to your regular routine. This is the only no-risk option that I can see for mining.
Well an investment that takes "months" to pay off is way faster and way more profitable than anything you can do in real life, except your giving out mobster loans. It's not even as bothersome as short time trading as you just set the rig up and let it run, do whatever you want, no more work needed to produce your "goods". You are right, it is like any financial investment, I do not say you are wrong with that. But it has way lower short term risk than anything else I know (again, feel free to educate me, I am here to learn too). As to the volatility of the crypto market, if you build a mining rig you basically have your money's worth in months, like you said.
What's there to lose? You hardware will 99% run that long, and it's a system that basically has no ceiling (well, bitcoin does by limiting the coins in total, ETH for instance is endlessly minable, right?), so there actually is only the risk of the price of ETH or whatever you mine. And those are volatile, yes, but in practice it only makes you wonder if you pass your break even point after x months or x+2 months... the most of the investment you take to run that thing is electricity (see it like paying the costs for keeping your depot of shares and stocks at the bank).
I guess the highest risk you can have is that you have a higher electricity bill, that you might have to resell your hardware for a lower price (I doubt you'll ever make a loss on that hardware + what you earned in mining). But you can make thousands and more of $ by that. If you go for traditional stocks etc. you can lose everything you put in for no gain at all... you can't build a mining rig that doesn't at least bring you a little bit of money. You can't go down to 0, nothing anymore once the rig did some cycles and produced some cryptos. I have yet to see a single report of a miner that lost money... you see daily reports of stocks that just take money with them when they crash. So it's easy to say that mining has a lot lower risk in reality. Although the gains you produce are volatile and change, you never go out with nothing until the bubble explodes. WHEN it does at some time in the future, if it ever happens, only the stupid ones still got their money in it (basic guide line in life: never be the first or the last at the party).
Again, like I said, feel free to educate me and help me to learn more if I am wrong. But the way I see it, you can't do anything "wrong" and you can't lose all your money if you put it into mining. Also the gains are in no relation to what you put in in terms of money, so it's even more of a bubble than anything else. At least in the start real money was based on gold reserves and a national economy that guaranteed to pay any debts, with mining you just buy the rig, make money, not much more to see for me there.
The ROI depends on the price. When the cryptocurrency market was at $700bn you could pay off a 1080 Ti in about three or four months. At current prices it will take a bit under a year to pay off, and that's not counting electricity costs (tack on a few more months for that, depending on your rate). The mining difficulty also increases as more people get involved so your profits will shrink with time, so it could be well over a year before you see a single cent in profits. And if the crypto market crashes completely before that point, then you'll most likely have to take a loss - it might be possible to recoup some of the costs by selling the GPUs, but by then the second-hand market will be flooded with them so you won't be able to get a good price for them.
If I buy a stock, and that stock goes up 2%, then I'm already sitting on a profit. Even if things go south I can easily sell the stock and minimize my losses, which cannot be said for a mining rig. Stocks also don't incur running costs to hold (assuming you didn't buy on margin, of course), and don't require maintenance and upkeep. If someone had a lot of money and wanted to make it grow, I would advise them to buy stocks or mutual funds - I would NOT advise them to buy a mining rig. Opinions might differ, but speaking as someone who owns stocks and mines on the side, I would say mining is the riskier proposition (at least with stocks you can choose safer, blue chip stocks to invest in, but all cryptos are a gamble).
Mining is not some easy get-rich-quick scheme that has no risk. A small-time home miner still needs a regular full-time job to make ends meet, and most of them mine to make some extra money on the side or as an investment. Those who decide to get involved will most likely spend all of their reserves or go deeply into debt, hoping to benefit some time in the future. To get into cryptos in any form requires risk-taking and needs a big commitment in money and resources. I mean, if you want a completely safe investment then T-bills or money market funds would be the way to go, not cryptos.
Note that this only applies to those who build/buy a rig specifically for mining. For people who already have powerful GPUs for gaming or productivity, mining incurs little risk - if cryptos do well then you can sell the mined coins for a good price, and if cryptos crash then you can stop mining and go back to your regular routine. This is the only no-risk option that I can see for mining.
jaggerwild
Senior Member
Posts: 832
Joined: 2005-11-18
Senior Member
Posts: 832
Joined: 2005-11-18
#5524957 Posted on: 03/03/2018 03:41 AM
https://www.cnet.com/news/iceland-big-bitcoin-heist-cryptocurrency-mining-computers/
600 coins stolen lolz!
https://www.cnet.com/news/iceland-big-bitcoin-heist-cryptocurrency-mining-computers/
600 coins stolen lolz!
Fox2232
Senior Member
Posts: 11809
Joined: 2012-07-20
Senior Member
Posts: 11809
Joined: 2012-07-20
#5525001 Posted on: 03/03/2018 09:42 AM
https://www.cnet.com/news/iceland-big-bitcoin-heist-cryptocurrency-mining-computers/
600 coins stolen lolz!
They marked the target and then they F* up. Stealing HW... You have your mark, steal their USB wallets, get the code...
https://www.cnet.com/news/iceland-big-bitcoin-heist-cryptocurrency-mining-computers/
600 coins stolen lolz!
They marked the target and then they F* up. Stealing HW... You have your mark, steal their USB wallets, get the code...
Click here to post a comment for this news story on the message forum.
Senior Member
Posts: 12678
Joined: 2014-07-21
Well, the cost of p104 and p106 are(were) 20-30$ lower from price of regular models. It's not about "balls" it's about re-sale value.
"making money off of nothing" - banks do it every day for past 500 years. FED does it. Stock market does it. Miners at least have to buy hardware, pay electricity etc. I mean, I can't be the only one that thinks there is something wrong with the system that allows one government to be in debt (to a private company that issues money) roughly one trillion more every year? And we are talking about "Crypto scam" and "making money off of nothing" ? Man.....
This is oversimplified but it's good enough for this argument, I think.
Yeah I completely agree with you, banks are doing the same, that's exactly why we have growing government deficits and they need to be in debt. The whole system is broken by it's design, and yes they ARE making money out of nothing. Just like miners are making money out of a system that mainly serves itself. Prove me wrong please, I don't mind being educated for the better, but what gets calculated by mining does not have any use outside of the crypto system, right? Banks at least give other banks / companies / people money to use, what do the miners do? Calculate mining transactions for their own gain and nobody's use except to drive up market capitalisation out of thin air, the hardware and electricity, but it's not related to your hardware, the money you put in. They are just trying to create an alternative, I know that, but as you put it, doing the same as our already broken system of banks and national debt doesn't make it right just because banks don't like it. It's just the same illness on a smaller scale.
Mining is just like any other investment. The more money you put into it, the greater the rewards - and the greater the risks. GPUs are expensive (especially now) and will take months to pay off, even in favorable circumstances, and there are also running costs for electricity and maintenance. Of course the biggest risk of all is the cryptocurrency market itself, which can be extremely volatile and tank on a dime. This is the main reason why I advise against building/buying a mining rig, as the risks are just too great. There is no such thing as a risk-free investment, and mining is no different.
Well an investment that takes "months" to pay off is way faster and way more profitable than anything you can do in real life, except your giving out mobster loans. It's not even as bothersome as short time trading as you just set the rig up and let it run, do whatever you want, no more work needed to produce your "goods". You are right, it is like any financial investment, I do not say you are wrong with that. But it has way lower short term risk than anything else I know (again, feel free to educate me, I am here to learn too). As to the volatility of the crypto market, if you build a mining rig you basically have your money's worth in months, like you said.
What's there to lose? You hardware will 99% run that long, and it's a system that basically has no ceiling (well, bitcoin does by limiting the coins in total, ETH for instance is endlessly minable, right?), so there actually is only the risk of the price of ETH or whatever you mine. And those are volatile, yes, but in practice it only makes you wonder if you pass your break even point after x months or x+2 months... the most of the investment you take to run that thing is electricity (see it like paying the costs for keeping your depot of shares and stocks at the bank).
I guess the highest risk you can have is that you have a higher electricity bill, that you might have to resell your hardware for a lower price (I doubt you'll ever make a loss on that hardware + what you earned in mining). But you can make thousands and more of $ by that. If you go for traditional stocks etc. you can lose everything you put in for no gain at all... you can't build a mining rig that doesn't at least bring you a little bit of money. You can't go down to 0, nothing anymore once the rig did some cycles and produced some cryptos. I have yet to see a single report of a miner that lost money... you see daily reports of stocks that just take money with them when they crash. So it's easy to say that mining has a lot lower risk in reality. Although the gains you produce are volatile and change, you never go out with nothing until the bubble explodes. WHEN it does at some time in the future, if it ever happens, only the stupid ones still got their money in it (basic guide line in life: never be the first or the last at the party).
Again, like I said, feel free to educate me and help me to learn more if I am wrong. But the way I see it, you can't do anything "wrong" and you can't lose all your money if you put it into mining. Also the gains are in no relation to what you put in in terms of money, so it's even more of a bubble than anything else. At least in the start real money was based on gold reserves and a national economy that guaranteed to pay any debts, with mining you just buy the rig, make money, not much more to see for me there.