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Star Citizen developer says ray tracing "a massive headache"
Over on the Star Citizen forums, a player of the space sim asked, "Do you, as I, believe that RTX tech will save you devs so much work farther along and look absolutely spanking?"
Cloud Imperium developer Ben Parry initially responded to the question in the negative. "Not in the slightest", he wrote. "I expect, if we use it, it'll be a massive headache and time-sink but might give us some subtle improvements in looks or performance if we get it right."
He followed up by clarifying exactly what he means by headache: "The added headache is that whatever we offered would have to be an "as well" feature rather than an "instead", developing a feature for a single manufacturer's top-end cards means also maintaining feature parity for everyone else's hardware.
"Personally I'd like to use it to make the shadows crispier."
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ViperAnaf
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Posts: 178
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Senior Member
Posts: 178
Joined: 2010-03-07
#5641354 Posted on: 02/19/2019 09:40 AM
by the time this game is released it will be 3 more card generations in the future...
by the time this game is released it will be 3 more card generations in the future...
fantaskarsef
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Senior Member
Posts: 10710
Joined: 2014-07-21
#5641356 Posted on: 02/19/2019 09:49 AM
Uhm.. the very question of the user on the forums is questionable in terms of being meant for serious... Does RTX save you work... no, how should it? Basically reprogramming most of your lighting...
Uhm.. the very question of the user on the forums is questionable in terms of being meant for serious... Does RTX save you work... no, how should it? Basically reprogramming most of your lighting...
fOrTy_7
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Posts: 344
Joined: 2005-06-18
Senior Member
Posts: 344
Joined: 2005-06-18
#5641375 Posted on: 02/19/2019 10:22 AM
yeah and their devs are like 1 + 1 = 11
It will save work in case you can assume it is always on, but for now if dev choses to go with RTX then they need to support both lighting methods, RTX and legacy.
Not to mention games are made for console first these days and usually get ported to PC. So unless RTX will pick up greatly on PC or next-gen consoles would implement it, there won't be much support from game developers. Anyone still remembers hardware PhysX, or SLI for that matter. HairWorks, VXAO - how many games use these?
Nvidia would need to make a deal with game console producers to put their GPUs in next gen consoles. But that ain't gonna happen since AMD owns 100% of that market.
Well, Star Citizen itself is a massive headache, so...
yeah and their devs are like 1 + 1 = 11
Uhm.. the very question of the user on the forums is questionable in terms of being meant for serious... Does RTX save you work... no, how should it? Basically reprogramming most of your lighting...
It will save work in case you can assume it is always on, but for now if dev choses to go with RTX then they need to support both lighting methods, RTX and legacy.
Not to mention games are made for console first these days and usually get ported to PC. So unless RTX will pick up greatly on PC or next-gen consoles would implement it, there won't be much support from game developers. Anyone still remembers hardware PhysX, or SLI for that matter.
HairWorks, VXAO - how many games use these?Nvidia would need to make a deal with game console producers to put their GPUs in next gen consoles. But that ain't gonna happen since AMD owns 100% of that market.
sverek
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Joined: 2011-01-02
Senior Member
Posts: 5294
Joined: 2011-01-02
#5641378 Posted on: 02/19/2019 10:25 AM
/thread
Well, Star Citizen itself is a massive headache, so...
/thread
TheDeeGee
Senior Member
Posts: 6134
Joined: 2010-08-28
Senior Member
Posts: 6134
Joined: 2010-08-28
#5641380 Posted on: 02/19/2019 10:26 AM
I think they got a headache trying count all the cash.
I think they got a headache trying count all the cash.
fantaskarsef
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Senior Member
Posts: 10710
Joined: 2014-07-21
#5641382 Posted on: 02/19/2019 10:33 AM
It will save work in case you can assume it is always on, but for now if dev choses to go with RTX then they need to support both lighting methods, RTX and legacy.
Not to mention games are made for console first these days and usually get ported to PC. So unless RTX will pick up greatly on PC or next-gen consoles would implement it, there won't be much support from game developers. Anyone still remembers hardware PhysX, or SLI for that matter. HairWorks, VXAO - how many games use these?
Nvidia would need to make a deal with game console producers to put their GPUs in next gen consoles. But that ain't gonna happen since AMD owns 100% of that market.
Nobody besides Nvidia will ever support RTX... if so, they'd have to go DXR, same story as ever
You are right of course, it doesn't apply to consoles (unless AMD/m$ bring in some leverage on DXR / DX on consoles in general), at least not now and not the next generation. One of the examples why consoles are holding back PCs.
AMD does have 100% of the market, but they haven't been able to push any features onto consoles either... they're contractors to build semi-custom chips, they're not the makers of the software environment or anything... the best bet to bring any real features onto consoles is actually m$ since they'd be interested in both PC and console, Sony couldn't care less, and Nintendo always had their attention somehwere besides pure technical stuff
It will save work in case you can assume it is always on, but for now if dev choses to go with RTX then they need to support both lighting methods, RTX and legacy.
Not to mention games are made for console first these days and usually get ported to PC. So unless RTX will pick up greatly on PC or next-gen consoles would implement it, there won't be much support from game developers. Anyone still remembers hardware PhysX, or SLI for that matter.
HairWorks, VXAO - how many games use these?Nvidia would need to make a deal with game console producers to put their GPUs in next gen consoles. But that ain't gonna happen since AMD owns 100% of that market.
Nobody besides Nvidia will ever support RTX... if so, they'd have to go DXR, same story as ever
You are right of course, it doesn't apply to consoles (unless AMD/m$ bring in some leverage on DXR / DX on consoles in general), at least not now and not the next generation. One of the examples why consoles are holding back PCs.
AMD does have 100% of the market, but they haven't been able to push any features onto consoles either... they're contractors to build semi-custom chips, they're not the makers of the software environment or anything... the best bet to bring any real features onto consoles is actually m$ since they'd be interested in both PC and console, Sony couldn't care less, and Nintendo always had their attention somehwere besides pure technical stuff
coth
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Posts: 407
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Posts: 407
Joined: 2005-02-23
#5641393 Posted on: 02/19/2019 11:11 AM
SC will not support DXR because will not support DX12. And this is what was said about. It requires massive amount of code to support planned Vulkan and to support ray tracing, which is still not supported by Vulkan. So they will return to both later, as there are far more important things to do at the moment. So it stays DX11 for now.
SC will not support DXR because will not support DX12. And this is what was said about. It requires massive amount of code to support planned Vulkan and to support ray tracing, which is still not supported by Vulkan. So they will return to both later, as there are far more important things to do at the moment. So it stays DX11 for now.
JoeBlobers
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Posts: 11
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#5641401 Posted on: 02/19/2019 11:35 AM
Squadron 42 (solo) will be Beta in a year and half not 10 years.
Star Citizen (MMO) is sharing all SQ42 assets ont top of its own specific area. Performance improved by a factor of 2 to 3 will patch 3.4 and even middle GPU generation like Gtx1060 are doing well despite not fully optimized (Alpha.
One mandatory thing: use an SSD.
by the time this game is released it will be 3 more card generations in the future...
Squadron 42 (solo) will be Beta in a year and half not 10 years.
Star Citizen (MMO) is sharing all SQ42 assets ont top of its own specific area. Performance improved by a factor of 2 to 3 will patch 3.4 and even middle GPU generation like Gtx1060 are doing well despite not fully optimized (Alpha.
One mandatory thing: use an SSD.
Jespi
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Junior Member
Posts: 18
Joined: 2017-03-02
#5641402 Posted on: 02/19/2019 11:37 AM
I mean, you don't need Star Citizen's developer, to realize, that you can't just make "ray tracing only" when, RTX owns how much? 0.1% of the market? " So in the end, devs had to make old way lights and in addition ray tracing = more work to do.
I mean, you don't need Star Citizen's developer, to realize, that you can't just make "ray tracing only" when, RTX owns how much? 0.1% of the market? " So in the end, devs had to make old way lights and in addition ray tracing = more work to do.
Caesar
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Senior Member
Posts: 726
Joined: 2015-06-18
#5641410 Posted on: 02/19/2019 12:03 PM
That's a good statement.
......"instead", developing a feature for a single manufacturer's top-end cards means also maintaining feature parity for everyone else's hardware.........
That's a good statement.
Loobyluggs
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Joined: 2008-09-07
Senior Member
Posts: 3097
Joined: 2008-09-07
#5641415 Posted on: 02/19/2019 12:22 PM
""Do you, as I, believe that RTX tech will save you devs so much work farther along and look absolutely spanking?""
Anyone, with this level of grammar, does not deserve a reply.
""Do you, as I, believe that RTX tech will save you devs so much work farther along and look absolutely spanking?""
Anyone, with this level of grammar, does not deserve a reply.
fantaskarsef
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Joined: 2014-07-21
Senior Member
Posts: 10710
Joined: 2014-07-21
#5641435 Posted on: 02/19/2019 01:05 PM
Squadron 42 (solo) will be Beta in a year and half not 10 years.
Star Citizen (MMO) is sharing all SQ42 assets ont top of its own specific area. Performance improved by a factor of 2 to 3 will patch 3.4 and even middle GPU generation like Gtx1060 are doing well despite not fully optimized (Alpha.
Don't even get people started on SC / SQ42 development duration. That's a fight no one can win.
That's a good statement.
Until DXR (not RTX) gets adopted. Or all the lineups of Nvidia run RTX, a few years down the road. Or until AMD announces they offer some solution for it too. And even then, there's no need to support it at all.
Squadron 42 (solo) will be Beta in a year and half not 10 years.
Star Citizen (MMO) is sharing all SQ42 assets ont top of its own specific area. Performance improved by a factor of 2 to 3 will patch 3.4 and even middle GPU generation like Gtx1060 are doing well despite not fully optimized (Alpha.
Don't even get people started on SC / SQ42 development duration. That's a fight no one can win.
That's a good statement.
Until DXR (not RTX) gets adopted. Or all the lineups of Nvidia run RTX, a few years down the road. Or until AMD announces they offer some solution for it too. And even then, there's no need to support it at all.
Silva
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#5641483 Posted on: 02/19/2019 03:01 PM
The game is already huge and they're under high pressure to deliver.
There's no way, unless Nvidia injects the needed money, they're going to develop a feature just for a small percentage of users that have the hardware that can't even run it at decent fps.
The game is already huge and they're under high pressure to deliver.
There's no way, unless Nvidia injects the needed money, they're going to develop a feature just for a small percentage of users that have the hardware that can't even run it at decent fps.
HardwareCaps
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#5641496 Posted on: 02/19/2019 03:41 PM
Wait this con-project still exists?
Wait this con-project still exists?
Click here to post a comment for this news story on the message forum.
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Well, Star Citizen itself is a massive headache, so...