Sound Blaster releases Play! 3 USB Sound Card with Creative DAC

#5449448 Posted on: 07/04/2017 05:59 PM

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For $5 more....the FiiO K1 is a better option....

#5449457 Posted on: 07/04/2017 06:45 PM

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Let's try finding even a single soundcard without DAC...

Creative, be more clever creative rather than silly creative.
Also don't pretend your clients are that stupid.

#5449478 Posted on: 07/04/2017 07:42 PM

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Let's try finding even a single soundcard without DAC...

Creative, be more clever creative rather than silly creative.
Also don't pretend your clients are that stupid.

Except a lot of their clients do fall for it. I'm not aware of any products Creative creates that an alternative doesn't do. They haven't really been relevant since the early 2000s, but because of legendary products like the Soundblaster 16 or Audigy, people keep buying their products.

I wouldn't say any of Creative's products are bad, but they're not worth buying IMO.

#5449486 Posted on: 07/04/2017 08:07 PM

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Except a lot of their clients do fall for it. I'm not aware of any products Creative creates that an alternative doesn't do. They haven't really been relevant since the early 2000s, but because of legendary products like the Soundblaster 16 or Audigy, people keep buying their products.

I wouldn't say any of Creative's products are bad, but they're not worth buying IMO.
I wouldn't exactly say that. What makes this decent is not really the audio quality (this sucks from audiophile point of view) but the software: virtual surround for gamers. Also their smart volume thingy works really well. I use that all the time while watching series and youtube if the voices are really inconsistent or really low.

#5449493 Posted on: 07/04/2017 08:35 PM

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Don't most audio driver support decent headphone surround? I've seen the feature advertised often, though I haven't tried them myself (I use actual 5.1 surround speakers).

Even if Creative does a better job with this than others, they still have a knack for dropping support for newer versions of Windows pretty quickly, and they have little to no Linux support at all. Seeing as audio chipsets* can't really get a whole lot better than they are now (or have been for the past 15 or so years) this is a bit irritating, though, I do understand why they do things this way.

#5449506 Posted on: 07/04/2017 09:38 PM

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I had Audigy l33t something (the real deal, not the gimped crap) for years, and after switching to onboard Realtek with the new mobo, i don't hear any noticeable difference on the T6300 speakers. Onboard sound has come a long way.

#5449508 Posted on: 07/04/2017 10:02 PM

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Well, maybe it is because your MB has a special dedicated PCB for sound "card"? (if we check you profile details)
And some mobos sport real SoundBlasters onboard...
so, comparing any of these above with low-end Realtek AC-something - the latter is still utter crap.

#5449521 Posted on: 07/04/2017 11:38 PM

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Let's try finding even a single soundcard without DAC...

Creative, be more clever creative rather than silly creative.
Also don't pretend your clients are that stupid.

And how do you propose to get sound into mechanical speakers without using Digital Audio Converter (DAC) ?

Granted, creative has, for today's standards, crappy DACs, but you can't avoid them at one point in the system...Sure, you can do spdif, toss link but at the end of that, there has to be a DAC.

edit: I am talking PC(computer) ----> Speakers.

i don't hear any noticeable difference on the T6300 speakers.

ofc not, those are toy speakers. No offense, it's a fact. Not only for creative, but for all IT companies creating speakers and calling them "hi-fi super duper mega sega 500$ wonder". They don't know very much about sound. They know that people want bass, treble, power and it ends there.
Plug in ~100$ Sennheiser headphones to various sound cards and receivers and I claim that you will notice various differences. Some to your liking, some not, but differences nevertheless.

edit2: I will not argue sound quality any further. I am not audiophile, my system is not perfect, it might not even be to everyone's liking and what I wrote is not about that. I just stated that you should look away from IT companies when buying speakers. Look at Altec Lansing, Micorlab at least. Those people know sound. And they are low end. Still, way above anything Logitech or Creative will ever make.

#5449564 Posted on: 07/05/2017 05:20 AM

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Many replies...

I did a full response before but I lost the text because of automatic log off...grrrrr anyway sorry for the lenght and bad english

Let's try finding even a single soundcard without DAC...

Creative, be more clever creative rather than silly creative.
Also don't pretend your clients are that stupid.

Yeah, I didn't liked the "with DAC", but then you have to understand:
1-They have to play the market game. People say that "DACs are better than soundcards" for any excuse and companies do the same including saying that they're better due to no software involved...
2-Also it's about the type of product this one is, due to the fact that this product works as those other so called DACs and works without drivers, so is not taking clients as stupids...

Except a lot of their clients do fall for it. I'm not aware of any products Creative creates that an alternative doesn't do. They haven't really been relevant since the early 2000s, but because of legendary products like the Soundblaster 16 or Audigy, people keep buying their products.

I wouldn't say any of Creative's products are bad, but they're not worth buying IMO.

As far as "products" go, true of course as far as I know at least (they do cover more ground, are more diversified than any competitors they have though). But in technologies and development of those, they are/were ahead many times, and still are I think.
They are relevant! How not!? Last christmas I tried to use a price cut in Sound Blaster Z in Amazon and they were all sold fast! And I couldn't get mine. Audigy series X-Fi PCI series, X-Fi PCI-E series, external sound cards, Recon3d, Z Series, the new Ae5...most of them impressive products being some even revolutionary... maybe you are simply not interested and did not pay attention, but they are highly relevant to people that appreciate good sound in their PCs.
I think (talking about sound cards) they're worth buying given that they're arguably better than the competition cards, and of course much better than the best onboard audio.

What makes this decent is not really the audio quality (this sucks from audiophile point of view)

I read this critic many times, but never justified. High quality components and construction; high values of SNR, sampling, bit depth that is reflected in tests...Even Onkyo use an X-Fi chip in one of their sound cards that is held in very high regard! (maybe the rest of the card is the good part?) I'm not saying you're wrong, I don't know, just want to know the reason/explanation for that statement.

Don't most audio driver support decent headphone surround? I've seen the feature advertised often, though I haven't tried them myself (I use actual 5.1 surround speakers).

Even if Creative does a better job with this than others, they still have a knack for dropping support for newer versions of Windows pretty quickly, and they have little to no Linux support at all. Seeing as audio chipsets* can't really get a whole lot better than they are now (or have been for the past 15 or so years) this is a bit irritating, though, I do understand why they do things this way.



I tested personally CMSS3D versus Dolby Headphoes of an Asus card in 2009 when the Creative solution had 5 years already: only ego and denial could make one say that dolby was better. Also the flexibility of the Creative solution was amazing: you could downmix or upmix from any to any kind of speaker setup from headphones and stereo speakers (also using THX improvements you could even set the angle of the speakers apart from other many things) to 7.1 (also 6.1, 5.1 and 4.0/4.1) you couldn't do that with the Asus card en. wikipedia . org/wiki/Sound_Blaster_X-Fi#CMSS-3D (remove spaces). Both brands "improved" their solutions (Asus list newer version of dolby but if it's similar to that one...) and I haven't tested those. What I'm saying is they aren't the same, they don't sound the same, and each onboard and dedicated brand have their different solutions, so is to expect that one could be better than the other.
In fact, just listen to this (use headphones and no effects) /watch?v=2BxO9cd-sYA The difference is gigantic. Creatives' sound that good, yes, and yes, dolby is THAT bad (and onboard...). So, no, not the same, not "decent" in some cases...
I have a X-Fi Xtreme Music bought in 2006, never had a problem with drivers in Win XP, Vista and 7 and there are drivers for 8, 8.1 and 10, also I have an Audigy SE and there are also Win 10 drivers, so what you say is a lie.
Chipsets can improve, see how the change from Audigy to X-Fi was huge, then they abandon that one for the Core3D (I read that the X-Fi was an expensive to manufacture programable processor and the Core3D is a cheaper DSP only...I don't know...). They can improve in capabilities, new technologies support, performance, adapt/take advantage to the new ways SO's use the audio...

#5449571 Posted on: 07/05/2017 06:55 AM

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ofc not, those are toy speakers. No offense, it's a fact. Not only for creative, but for all IT companies creating speakers and calling them "hi-fi super duper mega sega 500$ wonder". They don't know very much about sound. They know that people want bass, treble, power and it ends there.
Plug in ~100$ Sennheiser headphones to various sound cards and receivers and I claim that you will notice various differences. Some to your liking, some not, but differences nevertheless.

Well that was my point, on these average cheap speakers i don't hear difference, so why the hell should i care? I don't like to wear headphones anyway, and that's a fact too.

#5449573 Posted on: 07/05/2017 07:17 AM

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I was never going to again after my X-Fi issues, but I got my Z for $30 used.

Creative makes good consumer grade stuff but no doubt there's better options.

I can absolutely tell the difference between onboard and the SBZ with my z-5500 set.

#5449666 Posted on: 07/05/2017 03:09 PM

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I am not aware of any technologies Creative offers that I'm missing out on. Sure, this could be one of those situations where it's like "you don't know how much better things are until you try ____!" because I've totally been there. But the fact of the matter is, despite creating audio processors, their products are still too heavily software based. As a Linux user, that's a turnoff to me, but I haven't been fond of Creative's heavy reliance on software long before I used Linux.
Also, I often wouldn't want some of the technologies they offer, since that often means distorting the audio in a way that's more gimmicky than useful, such as EAX. I'd rather watch a movie or play a game the way the producers wanted me to experience it.


Popular!=relevant. As I said before, I'm aware people keep buying their products, but that's not because of relevance, but rather things such as:
* Jumping to the conclusion that integrated audio is definitively bad, regardless of actually testing it or seeing how good it really could be. Keep in mind - I'm aware most cards by Creative are objectively better than integrated audio, but I'm referring to the average person or wannabe audiophile who has $40 headphones, where they're not going to hear much of a difference in the first place.
* Out of "tradition". Some people just buy stuff for their PCs whether they need it or not. For example, I knew someone who bought ECC RAM for every device he could, even a laptop that just acted like a thin client.
* Brand loyalty.
* Placebo effect: Though many Creative products are technically better than many alternatives, the auditory differences are often (not always) negligible. Nowadays your headphones or sound system have a greater impact on audio quality than a sound card. Meanwhile if your headphones or speakers can be operated via a digital audio source such as HDMI or SPDIF, a discrete card is effectively useless and a complete waste of money, since even the worst digital chipsets are often plenty good enough. Don't forget - many audio receivers have their own built-in processing that handle the features Creative software supports, except it runs independently and supports any device you plug into it.


That's the thing though - it doesn't make sense to me to pay a high premium that is arguably better than alternatives. To me, that isn't good enough for a $100+ price tag. To be fair, I wouldn't consider myself an audiophile, but if I were I still wouldn't buy a sound card (or USB) sound source.


Sure, that's nice, but you can do all of that that driver-free using a discrete sound receiver and integrated audio (either on-board or GPU based). Then you get the bonus of an external system away from EMI with clean power delivery. Not to mention, you'll now get less bloat on your PC along with a free PCI(e) slot for something else.


Anyway, to each their own - I understand for some people they need good recording capabilities, or maybe they don't have room for an external sound receiver. Some people always live with the latest and greatest with disposable cash, where any cost or time-sensitive disadvantages are irrelevant. But to me, a discrete sound card is not and never will be the best option, in either a quality or economic standpoint.

#5449676 Posted on: 07/05/2017 03:38 PM

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it doesn't sound the same because audio processing unit is still used before sound export. Integrated cards tend to have a lot of jitter. If there is a way to bypass audio processor (not the DAC), I am not aware of one.
One way to lower the jitter would be an external sound card attached via, say, USB and then send data to receiver digitally, but still, the AP unit from that USB card will be used to pack the data...
There is a "noticeable" difference in sound between my onboard sound sent via spdif and the same thing done via asus xonar (and x-fi extreme music before I had xonar)...

#5449677 Posted on: 07/05/2017 03:39 PM

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Their legendary card for me was sb live! Was also my first speakers with woofer 4.1 so back then when i load medal of honor alied assault the nornandy stage maxed out woofer .. i can not really describe my experience i finished in my teen pants twice after the first time! Nowdays i have a soundblaster z ... does it sound beter than my onboard ?i... Think so might be placebo effect...do i recomend the card .,..not really

#5449678 Posted on: 07/05/2017 03:42 PM

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yeaa, I still have soundblaster 16 somewhere in my cupboard The difference in sound from PC speaker and loudspeakers while playing first Doom was just out of this world