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Guru3D Rig of the Month - December 2019
Preview: Gigabyte X299 Aorus Gaming 3
Let's preview the Gigabyte X299 Aorus Gaming 3 which is intended for the first wave of Intel's Skylake-X processors that will be released next week. This is just some simple common coverage with an expanded photo-shoot, discussing the new hardware.
Read the preview here.
Preview: Intel Core i9 Skylake-X processors - 06/05/2017 08:51 AM
In this technology preview we'll have talk a little more about what Intel has announced at Computex, Kaby Lake-x and Skylake-X processors with a spread from 4 to 18 core processors on that new X299 p...
Preview: AMD VEGA GPU Architecture - 01/05/2017 03:46 PM
It is time to talk through a few mysteries from the AMD VEGA graphics processor architecture, join us in a preview architecture breakdown of what is to be expected with AMD VEGA graphics processors. R...
Preview: Desktop Kaby Lake Core i5 7600K CPU - 12/17/2016 11:31 AM
We look at the Intel Core i5 7600K processor, a respin from Intel based on the 14nm node; these processors are more energy friendly. For this review we look at the performance of this processor in a w...
Preview: AMD Radeon R9 NANO - 08/27/2015 12:56 PM
At the launch of the Radeon R9 Fury and Fury X AMD also announced something that caught the interest of many, a small form factor yet high-end graphics card aimed at powerful small game and HTPCs, yes...
Aura89
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Senior Member
Posts: 7721
Joined: 2008-07-31
#5443624 Posted on: 06/16/2017 10:10 AM
Uh...that's what a review is, opinions based on facts.
You basically just said "Hey, stop doing previews/reviews and let everyone else preview/review items so they can have their own opinions." - What nonsense is this?
If you don't like the opinion portion of reviews, stick with the technical data, which is generally listed on the products webpage.
Have these Previews/Reviews always been full of passive-aggressive rants? Its really getting worse. Let people make up their own opinions, no need to ruin the reviews with that.
Uh...that's what a review is, opinions based on facts.
You basically just said "Hey, stop doing previews/reviews and let everyone else preview/review items so they can have their own opinions." - What nonsense is this?
If you don't like the opinion portion of reviews, stick with the technical data, which is generally listed on the products webpage.
Hilbert Hagedoorn
Don Vito Corleone
Posts: 36773
Joined: 2000-02-22
Don Vito Corleone
Posts: 36773
Joined: 2000-02-22
#5443626 Posted on: 06/16/2017 10:14 AM
It is not a rant, it is a reflection of what is real and what has been happening for months now. You might not like it, but this is what Intel is and is doing. I am not going to sugar-coat anything.
Have these Previews/Reviews always been full of passive-aggressive rants? Its really getting worse. Let people make up their own opinions, no need to ruin the reviews with that.
It is not a rant, it is a reflection of what is real and what has been happening for months now. You might not like it, but this is what Intel is and is doing. I am not going to sugar-coat anything.
nevcairiel
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Joined: 2015-05-19
Senior Member
Posts: 649
Joined: 2015-05-19
#5443632 Posted on: 06/16/2017 10:25 AM
Uh...that's what a review is, opinions based on facts.
You basically just said "Hey, stop doing previews/reviews and let everyone else preview/review items so they can have their own opinions." - What nonsense is this?
If you don't like the opinion portion of reviews, stick with the technical data, which is generally listed on the products webpage.
You can shove those into a conclusion section if you want to, but in the middle of presenting the technical data it has no place there, imho.
There is a difference between an objective review and spoon-feeding people a certain opinion.
Uh...that's what a review is, opinions based on facts.
You basically just said "Hey, stop doing previews/reviews and let everyone else preview/review items so they can have their own opinions." - What nonsense is this?
If you don't like the opinion portion of reviews, stick with the technical data, which is generally listed on the products webpage.
You can shove those into a conclusion section if you want to, but in the middle of presenting the technical data it has no place there, imho.
There is a difference between an objective review and spoon-feeding people a certain opinion.
BLEH!
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Posts: 5918
Joined: 2010-10-17
Senior Member
Posts: 5918
Joined: 2010-10-17
#5443654 Posted on: 06/16/2017 11:21 AM
I thoroughly agree with Hilbert's take on this. The board is very nice, but Intel's approach to this is frankly appauling - having to PAY to use RAID - seriously... no thanks.
I thoroughly agree with Hilbert's take on this. The board is very nice, but Intel's approach to this is frankly appauling - having to PAY to use RAID - seriously... no thanks.
H83
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Posts: 2797
Joined: 2009-09-08
#5443655 Posted on: 06/16/2017 11:24 AM
Well they are deserved. Intel has really ****ed up in the PR department and because of that Hilbert and others are suffering professional and financial consequences.
And because of that Hilbert and others now depend on hardware makers to have access to Intel cpus otherwise there is no other way for them to make their reviews. Unless they buy the cpus from their own pocket, something i don´t think it´s possible, specially considering the price of some of those cpus...
I really can´t understand Intel´s decision about this matter, so stupid and they don´t gain nothing with this. In fact it´s even worse for them.
And i think Hilbert is being really polite about this, if i was in his shoes, i would tear a new one on Intel...
Have these Previews/Reviews always been full of passive-aggressive rants? Its really getting worse. Let people make up their own opinions, no need to ruin the reviews with that.
Well they are deserved. Intel has really ****ed up in the PR department and because of that Hilbert and others are suffering professional and financial consequences.
And because of that Hilbert and others now depend on hardware makers to have access to Intel cpus otherwise there is no other way for them to make their reviews. Unless they buy the cpus from their own pocket, something i don´t think it´s possible, specially considering the price of some of those cpus...
I really can´t understand Intel´s decision about this matter, so stupid and they don´t gain nothing with this. In fact it´s even worse for them.
And i think Hilbert is being really polite about this, if i was in his shoes, i would tear a new one on Intel...
Aura89
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Posts: 7721
Joined: 2008-07-31
#5443683 Posted on: 06/16/2017 12:44 PM
You can shove those into a conclusion section if you want to, but in the middle of presenting the technical data it has no place there, imho.
There is a difference between an objective review and spoon-feeding people a certain opinion.
So your idea is people should not know what is going on, because you don't want to know? Sorry, you're not everyone. I know, some people have a problem realizing they are not everyone.
You can shove those into a conclusion section if you want to, but in the middle of presenting the technical data it has no place there, imho.
There is a difference between an objective review and spoon-feeding people a certain opinion.
So your idea is people should not know what is going on, because you don't want to know? Sorry, you're not everyone. I know, some people have a problem realizing they are not everyone.
nevcairiel
Senior Member
Posts: 649
Joined: 2015-05-19
Senior Member
Posts: 649
Joined: 2015-05-19
#5443704 Posted on: 06/16/2017 01:39 PM
I was referring to all the cheap shots on the second page of this article, not the summary of the PR situation on the first page, which is fine.
Like I said in an earlier post, there is a difference between conveying information and just taking cheap shots as often as you can.
So your idea is people should not know what is going on, because you don't want to know? Sorry, you're not everyone. I know, some people have a problem realizing they are not everyone.
I was referring to all the cheap shots on the second page of this article, not the summary of the PR situation on the first page, which is fine.
Like I said in an earlier post, there is a difference between conveying information and just taking cheap shots as often as you can.
Hilbert Hagedoorn
Don Vito Corleone
Posts: 36773
Joined: 2000-02-22
Don Vito Corleone
Posts: 36773
Joined: 2000-02-22
#5443709 Posted on: 06/16/2017 01:47 PM
I was referring to all the cheap shots on the second page of this article, not the summary of the PR situation on the first page, which is fine.
Like I said in an earlier post, there is a difference between conveying information and just taking cheap shots as often as you can.
You've had your say, I'll leave it at that. Right now though I want this thread to get back on topic, which is the motherboard preview.
I was referring to all the cheap shots on the second page of this article, not the summary of the PR situation on the first page, which is fine.
Like I said in an earlier post, there is a difference between conveying information and just taking cheap shots as often as you can.
You've had your say, I'll leave it at that. Right now though I want this thread to get back on topic, which is the motherboard preview.
Loophole35
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Joined: 2011-09-21
Senior Member
Posts: 9468
Joined: 2011-09-21
#5443719 Posted on: 06/16/2017 02:03 PM
I see no problem with how you presented this product. Everything stated is factual and objectively delivered.
The bugs you alluded to in another thread. Are you able to talk on those yet or do we need to wait for the full review?
You've had your say, I'll leave it at that. Right now though I want this thread to get back on topic, which is the motherboard preview.
I see no problem with how you presented this product. Everything stated is factual and objectively delivered.
The bugs you alluded to in another thread. Are you able to talk on those yet or do we need to wait for the full review?
Denial
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Joined: 2004-05-16
Senior Member
Posts: 12472
Joined: 2004-05-16
#5443721 Posted on: 06/16/2017 02:11 PM
I see no problem with how you presented this product. Everything stated is factual and objectively delivered.
The bugs you alluded to in another thread. Are you able to talk on those yet or do we need to wait for the full review?
I'm curious about this as well. It's looking more and more like I'm going to end up getting the i7-7820X but I'm going to be really annoyed when I preorder this thing on Monday and find out afterward that the entire platform is a buggy mess.
I see no problem with how you presented this product. Everything stated is factual and objectively delivered.
The bugs you alluded to in another thread. Are you able to talk on those yet or do we need to wait for the full review?
I'm curious about this as well. It's looking more and more like I'm going to end up getting the i7-7820X but I'm going to be really annoyed when I preorder this thing on Monday and find out afterward that the entire platform is a buggy mess.
vbetts
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Posts: 14749
Joined: 2006-07-04
#5443728 Posted on: 06/16/2017 02:24 PM
Does not seem like a worthwhile venture to get the lowest tiered i5 and i7 seeing that they use more power than Intel's mainstream platform, and are only dual channel memory support...I'm trying to see where this platform makes sense?
Does not seem like a worthwhile venture to get the lowest tiered i5 and i7 seeing that they use more power than Intel's mainstream platform, and are only dual channel memory support...I'm trying to see where this platform makes sense?
Hilbert Hagedoorn
Don Vito Corleone
Posts: 36773
Joined: 2000-02-22
Don Vito Corleone
Posts: 36773
Joined: 2000-02-22
#5443732 Posted on: 06/16/2017 02:28 PM
The platform is going to see BIOS updates for a while, I have no doubt there. My primary issues have been memory compatibility and huge perf drops in gaming.
Yesterday however for the board I am testing got an updated BIOS yesterday that solved both for the bigger part. However the solve was found partly in hardware p states, pretty much disabling them. And while that increases gaming perf, it also increases power draw and heat ..
Now I need to be very careful with this statement here as I am using an ES sample, not retail. But under load with 10 cores prime the cpu runs to 85 Degrees C, on LCS. Fingers crossed and hoping this ES sample is the main cause of that though.
I'm curious about this as well. It's looking more and more like I'm going to end up getting the i7-7820X but I'm going to be really annoyed when I preorder this thing on Monday and find out afterward that the entire platform is a buggy mess.
The platform is going to see BIOS updates for a while, I have no doubt there. My primary issues have been memory compatibility and huge perf drops in gaming.
Yesterday however for the board I am testing got an updated BIOS yesterday that solved both for the bigger part. However the solve was found partly in hardware p states, pretty much disabling them. And while that increases gaming perf, it also increases power draw and heat ..
Now I need to be very careful with this statement here as I am using an ES sample, not retail. But under load with 10 cores prime the cpu runs to 85 Degrees C, on LCS. Fingers crossed and hoping this ES sample is the main cause of that though.
H83
Senior Member
Posts: 2797
Joined: 2009-09-08
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Posts: 2797
Joined: 2009-09-08
#5443734 Posted on: 06/16/2017 02:30 PM
Then why preorder??? Just wait for reviews so you know the current state of the platform and then decide if it´s worth the risk or not.
Personally i wouldn´t buy something described as very buggy, specially an expensive one like this, but that´s me.
I'm curious about this as well. It's looking more and more like I'm going to end up getting the i7-7820X but I'm going to be really annoyed when I preorder this thing on Monday and find out afterward that the entire platform is a buggy mess.
Then why preorder??? Just wait for reviews so you know the current state of the platform and then decide if it´s worth the risk or not.
Personally i wouldn´t buy something described as very buggy, specially an expensive one like this, but that´s me.
Denial
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Posts: 12472
Joined: 2004-05-16
#5443739 Posted on: 06/16/2017 02:37 PM
Does not seem like a worthwhile venture to get the lowest tiered i5 and i7 seeing that they use more power than Intel's mainstream platform, and are only dual channel memory support...I'm trying to see where this platform makes sense?
The six and eight core are the only chips that make sense to me - from a gaming perspective. The Kabylake-X stuff literally makes zero sense. I can't think of a single situation where you'd want it. The 10+ core stuff is likely going to be too expensive for the preferred workloads. Usually if you are requiring 10 cores, you're doing some kind of rendering or super threaded workload and more cores are always going to be better than clockspeed. AMD is going to offer way more cores for the price. TR/Epyc are just going to win there IMO, baring any weird issues with the split core design.
I feel like for gaming, the sweet spots right now are 6/8 cores. Ryzen offers both, but for me going to a Ryzen processor would be a step down/sidegrade in most applications and games - with only a few making use of the extra cores positively. This is why leading up to the Ryzen launch I really was hoping 4.4/4.5 was doable with WC. I hate the idea of spending money for worse overall performance in the majority of stuff I do.
So while the Intel 8 core is definitely priced higher, I feel like the price is worth avoiding that - again this is my opinion. I think I do things differently than most people though, I budget a cost for a system and I buy the best stuff I can to maximize out that budget. I know 100% I'm spending $1500 on a processor/motherboard/NVMe drive for my next build. I think within that price Intel offers a better product for the stuff that I do. If my budget was only $1000, I think AMD would be the choice.
Then why preorder??? Just wait for reviews so you know the current state of the platform and then decide if it´s worth the risk or not.
Personally i wouldn´t buy something described as very buggy, specially an expensive one like this, but that´s me.
Mostly because I have zero patience and self control, lol. I also have a number of problems on my current motherboard including it randomly not posting, the onboard ethernet failed and I have a weird memory issue that leads to very strange behavior when all 4 DIMM slots are filled, thus I'm running at half memory at the moment.
So I'm basically itching to replace the thing. I actually bought a 1800x when it launched but the MSI board I bought off Amazon took like 2 weeks to be in stock let alone ship and by that time I realized the 1700x was the better choice. I ended up canceling it all and decided to wait to see what Intel offered. IIRC at the time x299 was scheduled for later in the year but rumors started going out that it was being moved up to July, which definitely influenced my decision to wait.
The platform is going to see BIOS updates for a while, I have no doubt there. My primary issues have been memory compatibility and huge perf drops in gaming.
Yesterday however for the board I am testing got an updated BIOS yesterday that solved both for the bigger part. However the solve was found partly in hardware p states, pretty much disabling them. And while that increases gaming perf, it also increases power draw and heat ..
Now I need to be very careful with this statement here as I am using an ES sample, not retail. But under load with 10 cores prime the cpu runs to 85 Degrees C, on LCS. Fingers crossed and hoping this ES sample is the main cause of that though.
Doesn't sound ideal. Might have to wait for your review then. I'm not adverse to delidding but if the platform is going to have weird power/sleep/memory issues that take a few months to resolve, plus I have to delid it, plus it's more expensive, the scales start tipping in AMD's favor.
Need to see I guess. Thanks for being open about it though.
Does not seem like a worthwhile venture to get the lowest tiered i5 and i7 seeing that they use more power than Intel's mainstream platform, and are only dual channel memory support...I'm trying to see where this platform makes sense?
The six and eight core are the only chips that make sense to me - from a gaming perspective. The Kabylake-X stuff literally makes zero sense. I can't think of a single situation where you'd want it. The 10+ core stuff is likely going to be too expensive for the preferred workloads. Usually if you are requiring 10 cores, you're doing some kind of rendering or super threaded workload and more cores are always going to be better than clockspeed. AMD is going to offer way more cores for the price. TR/Epyc are just going to win there IMO, baring any weird issues with the split core design.
I feel like for gaming, the sweet spots right now are 6/8 cores. Ryzen offers both, but for me going to a Ryzen processor would be a step down/sidegrade in most applications and games - with only a few making use of the extra cores positively. This is why leading up to the Ryzen launch I really was hoping 4.4/4.5 was doable with WC. I hate the idea of spending money for worse overall performance in the majority of stuff I do.
So while the Intel 8 core is definitely priced higher, I feel like the price is worth avoiding that - again this is my opinion. I think I do things differently than most people though, I budget a cost for a system and I buy the best stuff I can to maximize out that budget. I know 100% I'm spending $1500 on a processor/motherboard/NVMe drive for my next build. I think within that price Intel offers a better product for the stuff that I do. If my budget was only $1000, I think AMD would be the choice.
Then why preorder??? Just wait for reviews so you know the current state of the platform and then decide if it´s worth the risk or not.
Personally i wouldn´t buy something described as very buggy, specially an expensive one like this, but that´s me.
Mostly because I have zero patience and self control, lol. I also have a number of problems on my current motherboard including it randomly not posting, the onboard ethernet failed and I have a weird memory issue that leads to very strange behavior when all 4 DIMM slots are filled, thus I'm running at half memory at the moment.
So I'm basically itching to replace the thing. I actually bought a 1800x when it launched but the MSI board I bought off Amazon took like 2 weeks to be in stock let alone ship and by that time I realized the 1700x was the better choice. I ended up canceling it all and decided to wait to see what Intel offered. IIRC at the time x299 was scheduled for later in the year but rumors started going out that it was being moved up to July, which definitely influenced my decision to wait.
The platform is going to see BIOS updates for a while, I have no doubt there. My primary issues have been memory compatibility and huge perf drops in gaming.
Yesterday however for the board I am testing got an updated BIOS yesterday that solved both for the bigger part. However the solve was found partly in hardware p states, pretty much disabling them. And while that increases gaming perf, it also increases power draw and heat ..
Now I need to be very careful with this statement here as I am using an ES sample, not retail. But under load with 10 cores prime the cpu runs to 85 Degrees C, on LCS. Fingers crossed and hoping this ES sample is the main cause of that though.
Doesn't sound ideal. Might have to wait for your review then. I'm not adverse to delidding but if the platform is going to have weird power/sleep/memory issues that take a few months to resolve, plus I have to delid it, plus it's more expensive, the scales start tipping in AMD's favor.
Need to see I guess. Thanks for being open about it though.
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Have these Previews/Reviews always been full of passive-aggressive rants? Its really getting worse. Let people make up their own opinions, no need to ruin the reviews with that.