Nvidia Prevents Reselling Bundled Games By Forcing GeForce Experience

by Hilbert Hagedoorn on: 02/03/2017 12:51 PM | source: | 77 comment(s)

Right, this is going to be a complicated story to explain. As you guys know I have been rather critical towards what Nvidia is doing with GeForce Experience. At first it was intended to be a platform that automatically set preferred game settings in relation to a game and your GeForce graphics card.

Then Nvidia came with the idea that all driver downloads would be exclusive towards GFE. Then in a later stage they forced a login to be able to download the driver. Now they did change their mind here as they still offer the drivers as separate download. Somewhere in-between it all Nvidia started collecting all kinds of data and information with GeForce Experience. The GFE application reads out your settings, software and hardware. To date nobody really knows what Nvidia is doing with that big-data that ends up in a cloud at Nvidia.

The new chapter for GeForce experience is that all that data is tied towards a user account. If you haven’t noticed, in order to be able to use GFE for the most simplistic things like recording etc you actually need to (are forced) to login to the software these days. This means that Nvidia is creating profiles based on your email address, Nvidia account, Google account and/or a facebook account.

You cannot use GeForce Experience without a mandatory forced login to redeem your game-code

And now we arrive at last weeks game bundle. Last week Nvidia introduced a new game bundle for the GeForce GTX 1070 and 1080. Here’s what is happening, in order to redeem the game codes , you’ll are now forced to have GeForce Experience installed and to be logged in (which is mandatory these days). Nvidia is claiming to do this so that keys will not be resold or given away to your friends. However from here on-wards things get very tricky, Nvidia is now using that GFE data and will be checking your user-info and ties that towards your hardware. E.g. the game-codes will only handed out if you have that GeForce GTX 1070 or 1080 physically installed on your PC. So again, when you redeem the game code that card HAS to be installed in your system and you HAVE to be logged into GFE.

This new chapter has started with the For Honor en Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon: Wildlands Bundle. While Nvidia claims this all has nothing to do with spying, tracking, or other immoral activities, it surely is getting scary to see what they have been doing in the past year or so with GFE.

In my prediction it will not be long before the parties like perhaps EU Commission will start an investigation on Nvidia, they are collecting system and user data of millions of end-users through GeForce Experience. First you spend hundreds of euros/dollars on a graphics cards and then if you want to fully use the features and software they are forcing you to login to their system allowing them to harvest and track data. While many people will have no problem with data-collection, I find the recent developments to have become rather scary - free games or not.

Nvidia's updated terms and conditions for promotional codes are listed in its latest bundle, which offers the choice of For Honor or Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon: Wildlands with the purchase of a GTX 1070 or GTX 1080. Now there is a secondary discussion here as well, if you spend 750 euros/usd on your GeForce GTX 1080 which comes with a free game, why shoudn't it be able for you to giveaway that code if you own the game already - or perhaps make a few bucks by selling it ?

Over the past year GFE slowly is moving from a fairly handy utility towards enforced bloatware it seems. Perhaps I am looking at it in a different way though. I would love to hear from you guys in our forums whether all this is morally acceptable, or us just being a bit too paranoid from my side?.

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Size_Mick
Senior Member

Posts: 305
Joined: 2002-03-22

#5388686 Posted on: 02/04/2017 03:06 PM

LOL maybe they should rename it to another name they've kicked around for a few years now: FORCEWARE

LOL which we will all FORESWEAR

Khronikos
Senior Member

Posts: 708
Joined: 2012-06-28

#5388777 Posted on: 02/04/2017 08:37 PM

Don't really care, but do not touch my ability to NOT install GFE or I will riot and so will many others. It would damage their brand beyond belief and would be the first moment I would even consider AMD.

There is a reason they backed off. I understand they want to solve driver problems but that move was out of hand.

Asgardi
Senior Member

Posts: 227
Joined: 2010-11-13

#5388800 Posted on: 02/04/2017 09:51 PM

Its very simple: you are being paranoid if the current privacy policies stay intact:

"
Q: What data does GeForce Experience send to NVIDIA?
A: The application collects data needed to recommend the correct driver update and optimal settings, including hardware configuration, operating system, language, installed games, game settings, game usage, game performance, and current driver version. If a user is signed into an NVIDIA account, the data is identifiable. All data collected is protected by NVIDIA's privacy policy.

Q: Does NVIDIA share data collected by GeForce Experience outside the company?
A: GeForce Experience does not share any personally identifiable information outside the company. NVIDIA may share aggregate-level data with select partners, but does not share user-level data.
"

... and*I checked the privacy policy too and it looks*very nice from the users point of view (unlike Apple, Microsoft or especially Google).

The point of checking hardware and requiring sign-in for promos is very very simple: they get better deals from publishers because they don't lose (potential) sales because of unintended trading of these keys.

HeavyHemi
Senior Member

Posts: 6219
Joined: 2008-10-27

#5388960 Posted on: 02/05/2017 11:29 AM

I'm not surprised. I like to think of the situation like this:
When you insult AMD fans, it's kind of like insulting their mother - she's far from perfect and at times might be really annoying, but you insult her and now it's personal.
But when it comes to Nvidia fans, it's kind of like insulting a patriot's country. When you insult one, you're insulting all of them.

In the end the outcome is very similar but if you pay close attention, AMD fans are more protective of their decision for their rig while Nvidia fans are more protective of the company's decisions. I'm guessing this is because AMD is a (relatively speaking) friendly and open company, but not a successful one, while Nvidia is a pretty greedy and shady company but a very successful one. Nobody feels bad for supporting AMD, but they need to justify their purchase, meanwhile people might feel a little guilty supporting Nvidia, but at least they know they have a better product.

EDIT:
As for Intel, I suppose insulting their fans is kind of like an athiest preaching that God isn't real in a filled church - regardless of how right or wrong you may be, you are outnumbered and you have no chance of convincing anyone of anything you have to say.

Strange, but I see it exactly opposite. Or perhaps Nvidia users are defending Nvidia because AMD users can't attack the performance. Ha ha

Irenicus
Senior Member

Posts: 471
Joined: 2015-05-03

#5388961 Posted on: 02/05/2017 11:34 AM

that's because anyone with half a brain doesn't use steam. lol

Loaded, presumptuous and completely incorrect statement.

Most if not ALL PC gamers use steam to a degree and there's nothing wrong with it. I have no downsides with steam at all. I'd like to hear you elaborate on this

I guess you only pirate games you can't get anywhere else BUT steam. What about your opinion on Origin, Uplay or GoG? Let's hear it, all of it.

I suspect you are a sorely misinformed, disillusioned and angry individual (for whatever reason, you dislike steam) because using a platform has nothing to do with intelligence.
Don't really care, but do not touch my ability to NOT install GFE or I will riot and so will many others. It would damage their brand beyond belief and would be the first moment I would even consider AMD.

There is a reason they backed off. I understand they want to solve driver problems but that move was out of hand.

Not worried at all about that. It won't happen.

Pandelas
Member

Posts: 28
Joined: 2012-10-13

#5389210 Posted on: 02/06/2017 05:23 AM

time to uninstall that crappy software. By the way im looking the guru3d website frequently and some drivers are days behind in GE maybe not at all.

xIcarus
Senior Member

Posts: 935
Joined: 2010-08-24

#5389337 Posted on: 02/06/2017 03:21 PM

I don't even understand the whining in this thread.
The problem is GFE being a forced login, not some Nvidia attempt to circumvent f r a u d..

microsoft set the stage for this with windows 10 in alliance with google they are basically hackers with goverment approval and theres lot of dirty money involved the finacial rewards for this are unbelivable my opinion the money is so big nvidia cant resist it even they know some customers will be upset

What in the ass have you been smoking, seriously. PrMinisterGR answered your rant correctly anyway. Microsoft have had big friction with the government on privacy.
Not sure why it's becoming trendy to hate on Microsoft again.

You heard of ReactOS, and yet you aren't aware of Linux? Are you not aware that the vast majority of the Windows binary compatibility in ReactOS comes from wine (a Linux program)? Are you not aware there are thousands of Linux-compatible products on Steam (with a lot more to come, since SteamVR should be accessible pretty soon)?

Of course not, he thinks the ReactOS Foundation can magically reverse engineer the NT kernel on the go while they're implementing their own hybrid.
And I can't blame him, because from their marketing it's not clear wtf ReactOS is actually based on. Non-technical people do not understand the complexity of certain software. Sometimes seemingly simple software seems complicated and vice versa.

People just like missing just one important fact: ReactOS is based on fcking Windows XP. Obsolete software. Linux + Wine is heaps and bounds over ReactOS. And this is solely due to the OS itself, Linux is just more stable, more feature rich, more just about anything.

As above, it seems to be cool to hate on Microsoft again.

Yet another reason to not stick with Nvidia anymore. Sad part is that people still gonna buy these overpriced cards and use that GFE ecosystem and nobody would give a damn as nobody give a damn about Facebook, Google or Microsoft policy.

If AMD are going to continue launching high-end cards 6-12 months late or lag with their price drops, yes, people WILL continue to buy Nvidia. Even those like me, who'd prefer to not support Nvidia any longer.

Nvidia has pushed its marketshare very far in the past years despite the retarded decisions they've made.
Contemplate on that one for a second, ask yourself why this happened.

that's because anyone with half a brain doesn't use steam. lol

You tell them what a smart one you are, not using Steam and sh!t.
Man there's some ridiculous stuff in this thread but you take the cake.

geogan
Senior Member

Posts: 347
Joined: 2010-01-04

#5389392 Posted on: 02/06/2017 05:52 PM

Geforce Experience is needed by me to be able to stream my PC games to my NVidia Shield 4K TV (it doesn't work right now but that's another problem).

I don't mind registering with the NVidia account but similar to the way a lot of sites are doing these days, there is NO way i would give them my Facebook or other login information.

schmidtbag
Senior Member

Posts: 4248
Joined: 2012-11-10

#5389400 Posted on: 02/06/2017 06:10 PM

Nevermind - Delete

Denial
Senior Member

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#5389406 Posted on: 02/06/2017 06:20 PM

I really don't understand this. People have been streaming long before Nvidia had an option for it, but now suddenly everyone seems to think Shadowplay is a necessity (unless you're referring to Nvidia Now, in which case, there are still alternatives). Sure, Nvidia makes it much more doable without having to worry about paying for anything expensive, but most people who have content worth watching have the money to buy proper recording hardware, and are probably still using it.

Personally, I would much rather have a 3rd party device (even if that were a PCIe device) than to increase the load on my GPU. On the other hand, a 2nd nvidia GPU dedicated for Shadowplay (and physx I guess) sounds like a nice idea, if that's even doable.

He's talking about Nvidia GameStream which is more like a SteamLink competitor - but in my experience GS is significantly lower latency and supports 4K/HDR.

As for Shadowplay, I don't think anyone thinks it's a necessity, its just way more intuitive/convenient then other recording options. I don't even use it to stream/post videos on youtube - merely to go back and look at my play when I screw up or miss a shot in a r6 Siege/Overwatch and stuff. It's pretty nice to be able to alt-z and watch a replay without alt tabbing from the game in between rounds and stuff.

Loobyluggs
Senior Member

Posts: 2994
Joined: 2008-09-07

#5389737 Posted on: 02/07/2017 04:52 PM

He's talking about Nvidia GameStream which is more like a SteamLink competitor - but in my experience GS is significantly lower latency and supports 4K/HDR.

As for Shadowplay, I don't think anyone thinks it's a necessity, its just way more intuitive/convenient then other recording options. I don't even use it to stream/post videos on youtube - merely to go back and look at my play when I screw up or miss a shot in a r6 Siege/Overwatch and stuff. It's pretty nice to be able to alt-z and watch a replay without alt tabbing from the game in between rounds and stuff.

Fraps is better.

xIcarus
Senior Member

Posts: 935
Joined: 2010-08-24

#5389980 Posted on: 02/08/2017 09:48 AM

^ I hope you simply forgot to include an /s.

Loobyluggs
Senior Member

Posts: 2994
Joined: 2008-09-07

#5389996 Posted on: 02/08/2017 11:09 AM

^ I hope you simply forgot to include an /s.

Nope, meant every word.

The quality is much better and it has the exact feature denial is referencing as thing he likes about Shadowplay; the ability to record the last 30 seconds or whatever of footage.

4:2:0 versus uncompressed 4:4:4 is no comparison at all.

If you are streaming, there are many options out there minus shadowplay, but if you are recording and you want the best quality, Fraps is it. It just so happens it also has the feature denial likes.

xIcarus
Senior Member

Posts: 935
Joined: 2010-08-24

#5390426 Posted on: 02/09/2017 10:53 AM

Well of course, FRAPS uses an uncompressed video codec - which despite being uncompressed will take a big toll on your CPU during gameplay.
File sizes are big too so you'll prefer a separate hard drive as well, else it will just contribute to the FPS drop.

And I've never heard of FRAPS being able to record the last x minutes/seconds/whatever of gameplay, but if it does it probably does it using the same technique which means slicing your framerate in half just for a sequence you _might_ save?

Maybe I got all of this wrong but it doesn't sound like a great idea. If quality is your target, by all means FRAPS is the best one out there. But bringing performance and storage into equation makes FRAPS a less attractive piece of software.

schmidtbag
Senior Member

Posts: 4248
Joined: 2012-11-10

#5390525 Posted on: 02/09/2017 03:35 PM

VLC supports desktop recording, and to my knowledge VLC also supports encoded recording. Any reason why people don't use that? Sure, there's no frame counter, but if recording is all you care about then shouldn't that be good enough?

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