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NVIDIA CEO Makes Interesting Remark, New Gamers GeForce is a long time away from now
Earlier today the first press conferences started in Taiwan, today Nvidia held an invite-only press-conference with Jensen Huang. Nothing ground-breaking or new for the consumer market has been introduced. At the end of the session, however, Journalists asked some questions.
Jensen Huang talked about the renewal of its Jetson platform for autonomous robots with a Xavier-SoC. Nvidia launched a new Jetson Xavier on a form factor less than 10 by 10 cm, the Cortex-A57 cores have been replaced by eight of Nvidia's own 64-bit ARM v8.2 with a GPU based on the Volta architecture, these include Tensor cores supported by 16 GB LPDDR4x memory.
Back to the topic though, when Jensen Huang was asked when gamers can expect a Volta based GeForce card or whatever it'll be called, he answered that prices of the existing Pascal video cards had dropped to a regular level for some time and that gamers could again buy a GeForce GTX 1070, 1080 or 1080 Ti, saying that they were the best video cards that you as a gamer can buy.
Another editor asked for a small hint on the topic, Huang answered. "Do not worry, I will invite you", followed by "It'll be a long time from now". Since the question was slightly specific on Volta, his answer by itself does not eliminate the option of a pascal refresh.
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wavetrex
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#5553176 Posted on: 06/04/2018 03:10 PM
It's very interesting how things have turned 180 degrees.
Just a few years back, before QHD monitors started to become more affordable, before 144Hz was "the thing", before 4K ... high-end videocards were too powerful for 1080p/ 60Hz, resulting in very compressed "performance charts" in which pretty much every game at that time was maxing out the monitor.
Today pixel processing requirements are ballooning with the new panel technology, and there are no videocards that can keep up.
A very quick math, the new announced 4K/144Hz monitors require the videocard to process 9.6 times more pixels to them than an old 1080p/60Hz, and not even the mighty Titan is 10 times faster than the top videocard from 5 years ago. Far from it.
SLI/Crossfire should really make a comeback in game engines to compensate for these delays in GPU power !
It's very interesting how things have turned 180 degrees.
Just a few years back, before QHD monitors started to become more affordable, before 144Hz was "the thing", before 4K ... high-end videocards were too powerful for 1080p/ 60Hz, resulting in very compressed "performance charts" in which pretty much every game at that time was maxing out the monitor.
Today pixel processing requirements are ballooning with the new panel technology, and there are no videocards that can keep up.
A very quick math, the new announced 4K/144Hz monitors require the videocard to process 9.6 times more pixels to them than an old 1080p/60Hz, and not even the mighty Titan is 10 times faster than the top videocard from 5 years ago. Far from it.
SLI/Crossfire should really make a comeback in game engines to compensate for these delays in GPU power !
Netherwind
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#5553177 Posted on: 06/04/2018 03:12 PM
in PC games, developer can set limit above most mainstream gamer-PC set
but again their priority is the mainstream gamer PC specs, simply because that the main sales come from....
for developer actually its easy to create super-realistic visual that need much better spec
i mean they can slab 8k texture, tons of environmental particle+various lighting etc. etc.
but make it efficiently optimized game is much harder
so game developing isnt about "raw" power... actually developer trying to find a way to achieve things more efficiently.
look at how Quantic Dream created Detroit: become human.... using PS4 spec, they can achieve that cinematic visual quality.... imo impressive enough
I understand what you mean but I guess it's a matter of skill more than resources. Like I wrote on my post above that some developers simply manage to make spectacular games that run great on almost every system. Others like Ubisoft who have tons of money won't bother optimizing cause they don't want to rather than they can't do it.
in PC games, developer can set limit above most mainstream gamer-PC set
but again their priority is the mainstream gamer PC specs, simply because that the main sales come from....
for developer actually its easy to create super-realistic visual that need much better spec
i mean they can slab 8k texture, tons of environmental particle+various lighting etc. etc.
but make it efficiently optimized game is much harder
so game developing isnt about "raw" power... actually developer trying to find a way to achieve things more efficiently.
look at how Quantic Dream created Detroit: become human.... using PS4 spec, they can achieve that cinematic visual quality.... imo impressive enough
I understand what you mean but I guess it's a matter of skill more than resources. Like I wrote on my post above that some developers simply manage to make spectacular games that run great on almost every system. Others like Ubisoft who have tons of money won't bother optimizing cause they don't want to rather than they can't do it.
tunejunky
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#5553178 Posted on: 06/04/2018 03:14 PM
Jen Huang just confirmed what i've been saying for over a year.
Science may march on, but business marches on sales and marketing. until 7nm Vega, there is no competition for Nvidia. therefore jumping to a new process node is wasting money.
businesses Do Not Waste Money (on purpose). the shareholders know this, the market knows this, the corporate clients know this, the only ones who refuse to acknowledge the realities of business are gamers and tech geeks...in other words - US.
this is reality, you may not like it, and you may even hate it, but you have to deal with it.
Jen Huang just confirmed what i've been saying for over a year.
Science may march on, but business marches on sales and marketing. until 7nm Vega, there is no competition for Nvidia. therefore jumping to a new process node is wasting money.
businesses Do Not Waste Money (on purpose). the shareholders know this, the market knows this, the corporate clients know this, the only ones who refuse to acknowledge the realities of business are gamers and tech geeks...in other words - US.
this is reality, you may not like it, and you may even hate it, but you have to deal with it.
Netherwind
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#5553182 Posted on: 06/04/2018 03:16 PM
If SLI/CFX would work in all games and have 90+ % scaling, I would be first in line to buy it. But today it hardly works and has mediocre scaling at best in most cases.
SLI/Crossfire should really make a comeback in game engines to compensate for these delays in GPU power !
If SLI/CFX would work in all games and have 90+ % scaling, I would be first in line to buy it. But today it hardly works and has mediocre scaling at best in most cases.
SerotoNiN
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#5553197 Posted on: 06/04/2018 03:41 PM
Well, I've been saying it for 10 years now. Consoles dictate PC's.
Lack of PC exclusives pushing the true power of PC means we already have enough power to max console ports and render them at pretty respectable resolutions and frames.
People pushing 144mhz monitors at 4K are expected to be high-end enthusiasts with Titan XP's or 1080 Ti's. That's the high-end segment. So I don't see the need for anything incredibly powerful. Why? The market is not demanding it and nvida can save money pushing out a refresh on the same fab.
Well, I've been saying it for 10 years now. Consoles dictate PC's.
Lack of PC exclusives pushing the true power of PC means we already have enough power to max console ports and render them at pretty respectable resolutions and frames.
People pushing 144mhz monitors at 4K are expected to be high-end enthusiasts with Titan XP's or 1080 Ti's. That's the high-end segment. So I don't see the need for anything incredibly powerful. Why? The market is not demanding it and nvida can save money pushing out a refresh on the same fab.
fantaskarsef
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#5553205 Posted on: 06/04/2018 03:48 PM
Developers always follow hardware, you can't make a game that no one or very few can run, it makes no financial sense.
developers heavily rely on hardware advancements to push their game's requirements up.
Not sure I agree there since it's not possible to run all games at maximum settings. I remember Ryse, Son of Rome. That game was crazy tough on hardware. And AC:Origins isn't playable at 4K on max settings. There are many more examples like that.
Crysis, anybody? Killed EVERY PC on the market when it came out, made a name for itself by doing that. Just see how some guru's still today are asking "can it run Crysis" on a regular basis to show their attitude towards game's hardware hunger and hardware power offered.
I still can't upgrade...
Developers always follow hardware, you can't make a game that no one or very few can run, it makes no financial sense.
developers heavily rely on hardware advancements to push their game's requirements up.
Not sure I agree there since it's not possible to run all games at maximum settings. I remember Ryse, Son of Rome. That game was crazy tough on hardware. And AC:Origins isn't playable at 4K on max settings. There are many more examples like that.
Crysis, anybody? Killed EVERY PC on the market when it came out, made a name for itself by doing that. Just see how some guru's still today are asking "can it run Crysis" on a regular basis to show their attitude towards game's hardware hunger and hardware power offered.
I still can't upgrade...
Koniakki
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#5553206 Posted on: 06/04/2018 03:49 PM
Personally I always upgraded to the latest gpu(usually used and find a bargain with warranty) but seriously, even if 1180/2080Ti was released, even putting aside current pricing situtation, I wouldn't had change it.
What I meant, even for someone(my self and surely many others) who prefers/likes having as much performance as possible(either for gaming or benchmarks), the 1080Ti is just too good really and it's here to stay personally.
Personally I always upgraded to the latest gpu(usually used and find a bargain with warranty) but seriously, even if 1180/2080Ti was released, even putting aside current pricing situtation, I wouldn't had change it.
What I meant, even for someone(my self and surely many others) who prefers/likes having as much performance as possible(either for gaming or benchmarks), the 1080Ti is just too good really and it's here to stay personally.
SerotoNiN
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#5553221 Posted on: 06/04/2018 04:14 PM
Crysis, anybody? Killed EVERY PC on the market when it came out, made a name for itself by doing that. Just see how some guru's still today are asking "can it run Crysis" on a regular basis to show their attitude towards game's hardware hunger and hardware power offered.
I still can't upgrade...
There is an irony to be had here, considering Crysis was the last big PC AAA exclusive we ever got (Crysis: Warhead).
Crysis, anybody? Killed EVERY PC on the market when it came out, made a name for itself by doing that. Just see how some guru's still today are asking "can it run Crysis" on a regular basis to show their attitude towards game's hardware hunger and hardware power offered.
I still can't upgrade...
There is an irony to be had here, considering Crysis was the last big PC AAA exclusive we ever got (Crysis: Warhead).
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#5553228 Posted on: 06/04/2018 04:36 PM
I don't understand what Nvidia is thinking. Why wouldn't they want to make money off of new high end products? Knowing that there is a need for them with the increasingly affordable 4k monitors and TVs. Honestly I would even be okay with this milking of pascal if they put more focus onto sli. The problem is it is currently impossible to play all games on ultra at 4k 60fps with today's hardware. I mean, at least give an option for those of us who are actually willing to spend the money and want to play in 4k. If they're not going to release new cards, at least improve sli so I can put another 1080ti in my system and not worry about performance. The fact that there is just no way to play all games in ultra 4k by now on pc is just sad.
I don't understand what Nvidia is thinking. Why wouldn't they want to make money off of new high end products? Knowing that there is a need for them with the increasingly affordable 4k monitors and TVs. Honestly I would even be okay with this milking of pascal if they put more focus onto sli. The problem is it is currently impossible to play all games on ultra at 4k 60fps with today's hardware. I mean, at least give an option for those of us who are actually willing to spend the money and want to play in 4k. If they're not going to release new cards, at least improve sli so I can put another 1080ti in my system and not worry about performance. The fact that there is just no way to play all games in ultra 4k by now on pc is just sad.
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#5553234 Posted on: 06/04/2018 04:46 PM
SLI doesn't work because games are using techniques that simply don't support it. There is nothing Nvidia can do about that - the only thing they can do for what you want is build a larger graphics card. Titan V is available for 25-30% better performance than 1080Ti but it's $3000. The best Nvidia can do at the moment is cut the tensor/FP64 off the Titan V (GV100) and ship something similar to it. But you'd still only get 25-30% better performance and they'd have to rearrange the entire topology of the chip to do that - which is simply not worth the money for Nvidia and I doubt many people would spend $800+ on 25-30% performance, so it probably won't happen.
I don't understand what Nvidia is thinking. Why wouldn't they want to make money off of new high end products? Knowing that there is a need for them with the increasingly affordable 4k monitors and TVs. Honestly I would even be okay with this milking of pascal if they put more focus onto sli. The problem is it is currently impossible to play all games on ultra at 4k 60fps with today's hardware. I mean, at least give an option for those of us who are actually willing to spend the money and want to play in 4k. If they're not going to release new cards, at least improve sli so I can put another 1080ti in my system and not worry about performance. The fact that there is just no way to play all games in ultra 4k by now on pc is just sad.
SLI doesn't work because games are using techniques that simply don't support it. There is nothing Nvidia can do about that - the only thing they can do for what you want is build a larger graphics card. Titan V is available for 25-30% better performance than 1080Ti but it's $3000. The best Nvidia can do at the moment is cut the tensor/FP64 off the Titan V (GV100) and ship something similar to it. But you'd still only get 25-30% better performance and they'd have to rearrange the entire topology of the chip to do that - which is simply not worth the money for Nvidia and I doubt many people would spend $800+ on 25-30% performance, so it probably won't happen.
D3M1G0D
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#5553238 Posted on: 06/04/2018 04:52 PM
This is a moving target. Once GPUs can comfortably play games at 4K 60 there will be 4K 144 monitors, followed by 6K/8K monitors. Being unable to render a perfect 60 FPS at the highest resolution does not mean that new GPUs are needed, especially since 4K is a niche market.
"Man, I can't wait for the 1380 Ti. My old 1280 Ti is unable to hit 144 FPS on my new 4K 144Hz monitor and that's just sad. We need a new GPU ASAP!"
I'm willing to bet they would. 30% is basically in-line with what people are expecting and there is a lot of pent-up demand (gamers are getting antsy). Now, if it was only 5-10% increase then I doubt people would bother.
I don't understand what Nvidia is thinking. Why wouldn't they want to make money off of new high end products? Knowing that there is a need for them with the increasingly affordable 4k monitors and TVs. Honestly I would even be okay with this milking of pascal if they put more focus onto sli. The problem is it is currently impossible to play all games on ultra at 4k 60fps with today's hardware. I mean, at least give an option for those of us who are actually willing to spend the money and want to play in 4k. If they're not going to release new cards, at least improve sli so I can put another 1080ti in my system and not worry about performance. The fact that there is just no way to play all games in ultra 4k by now on pc is just sad.
This is a moving target. Once GPUs can comfortably play games at 4K 60 there will be 4K 144 monitors, followed by 6K/8K monitors. Being unable to render a perfect 60 FPS at the highest resolution does not mean that new GPUs are needed, especially since 4K is a niche market.
"Man, I can't wait for the 1380 Ti. My old 1280 Ti is unable to hit 144 FPS on my new 4K 144Hz monitor and that's just sad. We need a new GPU ASAP!"
I doubt many people would spend $800+ on 25-30% performance, so it probably won't happen.
I'm willing to bet they would. 30% is basically in-line with what people are expecting and there is a lot of pent-up demand (gamers are getting antsy). Now, if it was only 5-10% increase then I doubt people would bother.
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#5553240 Posted on: 06/04/2018 05:04 PM
1080Ti users should be glad....SLi 1080Ti users should be ecstatic.
Coming from 670 SLi, this 1070 + DSR + minor game tweaks = FUN!
But have to agree with what's been said already...from a business perspective, it makes no sense (cents
) Nvidia spending that kind of money at this moment in time.
1080Ti users should be glad....SLi 1080Ti users should be ecstatic.
Coming from 670 SLi, this 1070 + DSR + minor game tweaks = FUN!
But have to agree with what's been said already...from a business perspective, it makes no sense (cents
) Nvidia spending that kind of money at this moment in time.
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#5553242 Posted on: 06/04/2018 05:09 PM
I am not sure if Huang is bluffing or went stupid.
Because he surely knows how AMD kicks intel into nut sack, and will continue to do so for some time... Just because intel decided to put improvements on hold.
I am not sure if Huang is bluffing or went stupid.
Because he surely knows how AMD kicks intel into nut sack, and will continue to do so for some time... Just because intel decided to put improvements on hold.
Krakkan
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#5553243 Posted on: 06/04/2018 05:11 PM
How can one say there is no need or demand for faster GPU's? o_O
How can one say there is no need or demand for faster GPU's? o_O
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AC was always badly optimized but still runs fairly fine, 4K is minority in the market, you should look at mainstream hardware.
Games that are difficult to run are not very successful, sometimes developers aim too high or assume hardware will improve alot faster(remember that developing a game can take a few years)
anyways it is always hardware that dictates the tune.
I just took AC as an example. I tried running "The Crew 2 CB" at max settings 4K but my 1080Ti didn't stand a chance, even overclocked. I got a very wonky FPS overall at 4K but it was much better at 3440x1440. Sure, I get it, it's a CB after all but what I mean is that there are many games out there which the best hardware cannot max out.
I absolutely agree that developers should aim to make games that use the hardware available as well as possible. Personally I would choose Destiny 2 or Wolfenstein 2 as such examples. Runs great on all systems and look great on the same time.