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New NAND Storage Development: SLC, MLC, TLC, QLC NAND ... going for PLC
NAND flash memory products have seen many stages of development and are evolving continuously. SLC is very expensive, MLC as well, TLC currently is the sweet spot and yes, this year we've already reviewed the QLC based NAND products.
That combined with more layers per package increase storage volumes and lower prices. Each time you step it down a notch (adding more bits to write in one cell), you'll lose a number of write cycles but also it will have an effect on performance. Toshiba is trying the next step, after QLC they are developing and researching PLC. PLC and is short for Penta level cell and the technology would store five bits per cell.
The word is out at Toshiba and WD (Sandisk) they already have working prototypes. it remains to be seen if this tech will actually make it to viable production lines, as it is increasingly more complex. PLC would require 32 different types of voltage.
Algorithm can detect recycled and new NAND flash chips - 05/15/2018 06:40 AM
Counterfeit flash memory is becoming a growing problem; researchers in Alabama found an algorithm to predict how old (and used) a NAND Cell is. With a straightforward electronic examination, they c...
New NAND based Intel SSD 760p (TLC) and 660p (QLC) Specs Leak Online - 01/15/2018 04:54 PM
SLC, MLC, TLC and comes QLC. Cheap NAND flash for the masses, and guess what happened? Specs from Intel's next generation consumer NVMe products are spotted online. ...
SK Hynix invests bigtime in new NAND memory factory - 12/23/2016 09:25 AM
Things are going well for memory manufacturer Hynix, they are investing massively in a new plant. In fact they will invest $2.6 billion to boost its NAND production to anticipate on increasing demand...
Loophole35
Senior Member
Posts: 9784
Joined: 2011-09-21
Senior Member
Posts: 9784
Joined: 2011-09-21
#5704208 Posted on: 08/26/2019 11:58 AM
If it means I can get a 4TB games SSD for ~$150 I’m all for it.
If it means I can get a 4TB games SSD for ~$150 I’m all for it.
Silva
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Joined: 2013-06-04
Senior Member
Posts: 1358
Joined: 2013-06-04
#5704229 Posted on: 08/26/2019 01:25 PM
Development of new technologies is always welcomed.
That said, I hate the reliability of QLC and much rather stick to TLC. I can't imagine the endurance PLC will have...
I'm sure that with help from development of PLC, QLC will get better reliability. But there's a point that I'd rather my drive live for longer than having more density.
My current Crucial MX100 256GB drive has 5 years and still going strong. I'm upgrading to NVMe but this drive will live on my old mom's computer to keep working.
Development of new technologies is always welcomed.
That said, I hate the reliability of QLC and much rather stick to TLC. I can't imagine the endurance PLC will have...
I'm sure that with help from development of PLC, QLC will get better reliability. But there's a point that I'd rather my drive live for longer than having more density.
My current Crucial MX100 256GB drive has 5 years and still going strong. I'm upgrading to NVMe but this drive will live on my old mom's computer to keep working.
slyphnier
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Posts: 773
Joined: 2009-11-30
Senior Member
Posts: 773
Joined: 2009-11-30
#5704230 Posted on: 08/26/2019 01:28 PM
if we look at this, basically nand maker somewhat "fooling-around"
at beginning SLC - high-durability / expensive, so to push price lower, they make QLC/PLC - low-durability / much cheaper
luckily the nand capacity become so big, basically it cover-up the cons that qlc/plc have which is low write amplification, and as most user wont full-up their storage having free-space also help
SLC = 100K P/E cycles
MLC = 10K P/E cycles
TLC = 3K P/E cycles which i still think sweet-spot
QLC = 1K P/E cycles
PLC = 300 P/E cycles?
even SSD-maker using SLC cache system, far-better controller etc.
if we keep going on this trend, somewhat it make me think, probably the future SSD durability wont be much different than traditional HDD, especially in write-intensive environment
if we look at this, basically nand maker somewhat "fooling-around"
at beginning SLC - high-durability / expensive, so to push price lower, they make QLC/PLC - low-durability / much cheaper
luckily the nand capacity become so big, basically it cover-up the cons that qlc/plc have which is low write amplification, and as most user wont full-up their storage having free-space also help
SLC = 100K P/E cycles
MLC = 10K P/E cycles
TLC = 3K P/E cycles which i still think sweet-spot
QLC = 1K P/E cycles
PLC = 300 P/E cycles?
even SSD-maker using SLC cache system, far-better controller etc.
if we keep going on this trend, somewhat it make me think, probably the future SSD durability wont be much different than traditional HDD, especially in write-intensive environment
fry178
Senior Member
Posts: 1655
Joined: 2012-04-30
Senior Member
Posts: 1655
Joined: 2012-04-30
#5704267 Posted on: 08/26/2019 02:47 PM
Usually you have most drives starting to have issues with non-nand related stuff (controller etc), and around 1 out of 4 drive (of the same type)
will have nand related problems after a few years, so it might work for most consumers (especially at lower price),
but when i saw that the sustained TLC numbers on a nvme get beaten by an older MLC drive running sata,
yeah, i wont get anything "after" TLC.
even switched back to MLC for one of my backup drives i replaced, just to make sure.
Usually you have most drives starting to have issues with non-nand related stuff (controller etc), and around 1 out of 4 drive (of the same type)
will have nand related problems after a few years, so it might work for most consumers (especially at lower price),
but when i saw that the sustained TLC numbers on a nvme get beaten by an older MLC drive running sata,
yeah, i wont get anything "after" TLC.
even switched back to MLC for one of my backup drives i replaced, just to make sure.
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Joined: 2009-02-25
Wonder how many layers they can get this down to before reliability and the hardware's overall lifetime is reduced too badly, Penta(gram) layer SSD now and next up I suppose is hexa, whatever seven is called and then octa if this keeps going on.
Then again really long huge numbers shrinking doesn't really say much either, hardware dies whenever the user is most inconvenienced by it as per some law from how the universe just works and that's that. :p
Suppose storage capacity and affordability can continue to go up too, just have to monitor overall status and keep the priority files backed up and that should be good enough.
EDIT: As for regular usage I'm pretty sure 3 - 5 years is still more than feasible same as the general lifetime for a HDD before they start showing signs and even then it can last quite a while plus no mechanical parts in a SSD and it can theoretically keep going even more removing that little wear and tear and other issues with spinning headers and platters even if the memory cells have a finite lifetime but tech keeps it optimum so it gets a lot of lifetime regardless of some arbitrary number of hours.