Crucial X8 1TB Portable SSD review
Corsair iCUE LS100 Monitor Back Lighting Kit Review
Fractal Design ION+ Platinum 660 and 860W PSU review
Silverstone Permafrost PF240 liquid cooler review
Intel Core i9 9900KS processor review
AMD Ryzen 9 3950X review
Promo: Windows 10 Pro for $13 With Office 2016 For $33
ASUS PRIME X570 Pro review
ASUS ROG STRIX Scope keyboard review
GALAX GeForce RTX 2070 Super WTF review
Microsoft to replace FAT with exFAT
Microsoft has begun phasing out the FAT (File Allocation Table) filesystem. First launched in 1977 as an eight-bit storage format for Microsoft's BASIC language, the file system is still quite popular on removable devices where FAT's 4GB file size limit doesn't matter. Microsoft signed agreements with five hardware vendors to license exFAT for use in peripheral devices, this file system was developed for Windows Embedded CE 6.0 in 2006 and fixes many of FAT's issues like support for files larger than 4GB, enhanced storage efficiency, and lower seek times in very large directories. The only downside however is that open-source operating systems like Linux are left out in the cold.
So far, exFAT's closed-source and proprietary nature, and its use of software patents to prevent third-party support being added without a licence, has limited its appeal. That appears to be changing, however, with Microsoft announcing deals with Sharp, Sigma, NextoDi, Black Magic and Atmos Global to add exFAT support to future products. Sharp will be adding the format to its future Android tablets, Sigma and NextoDi to its professional cameras and image storage products, and Black Magic and Atmos Global to their video recording systems.
These peripherals will be limited to use with selected operating systems thanks to a lack of exFAT support in third party products. Should they prove successful with consumers, the days of cross-platform devices could be drawing to a close and while Apple has licensed the format for OS X, open-source operating systems like Linux are likely to be left out in the cold.
Microsoft to retire Windows Live Messenger in favor of Skype - 11/06/2012 07:50 AM
Microsoft is working towards retiring its Windows Live Messenger client in favor of Skype. The Verge has learned through several sources that Microsoft's Windows Live Messenger service will be retired in the coming months and integrated into Skype. Microsoft has slowly been moving people over to the Messenger backend for Skype over the past few months, with around 80 percent of all IMs sent on Skype being handled by Messenger.
Microsoft launches Windows 8 - 10/26/2012 05:46 AM
Microsoft announced the global availability of its popular Windows operating system, Windows 8. Beginning Friday, Oct. 26, consumers and businesses worldwide will be able to experience all that Windows 8 has to offer, including a beautiful new user interface and a wide range of applications with the grand opening of the Windows Store. As a result of close work with hardware partners, more than 1,000 certified PCs and tablets, including Microsoft Surface, will be available for the launch of Windows 8 — making it the best lineup of PCs ever across the Windows 8 and Windows RT ecosystem.
Microsoft has no plans for a second Windows 7 Service Pack - 10/25/2012 05:32 AM
Microsoft no plans for a second Windows 7 Service Pack - If you have been waiting for an SP2 of Windows 7 well it doesn't sound like Microsoft is going to release one.
Microsoft Surface RT Prices start at $499 - 10/17/2012 05:27 AM
Microsoft Surface RT Prices start at $499. he price of these ARM-based devices seems to target Apple's iPad, pricing starts at $499 for the entry-level model with 32GB flash memory.
Microsoft to Issue Seven Patches Next Week - 10/05/2012 05:40 AM
This coming Tuesday Microsoft will release a total of seven software updates (one rated 'Critical' and six rated 'Important') to address bugs that could lead to Remote Code Execution, Denial of Se...
k1net1cs
Senior Member
Posts: 3783
Joined: 2010-11-14
Senior Member
Posts: 3783
Joined: 2010-11-14
#4451422 Posted on: 11/10/2012 07:52 PM
exFAT isn't new; WinXP users can install exFAT support from MS, while Vista and Win7 already support it by default.
Of course, that'd probably leave Mac and GNU/Linux users 'out in the cold', but then again Apple has licensed exFAT and (realistically) that's all that matters.
Besides, since when did FAT (FAT32) isn't proprietary?
Just because it sees widespread use doesn't mean it's not proprietary; just look at the h.264 video format.
To be honest, I'll be glad if exFAT ever takes off and gets widespread use like FAT32 did.
Anyway, 4GB file size limit is a FAT32 limitation, while FAT16's is 4GB volume size limit, so I'm pretty sure the FAT being mentioned is FAT32, unless that '4GB file size limit' in the article is a typo.
That 'FAT from 1977' is not even FAT16 since (final) FAT16 was still years away.
exFAT isn't new; WinXP users can install exFAT support from MS, while Vista and Win7 already support it by default.
Of course, that'd probably leave Mac and GNU/Linux users 'out in the cold', but then again Apple has licensed exFAT and (realistically) that's all that matters.
Besides, since when did FAT (FAT32) isn't proprietary?
Just because it sees widespread use doesn't mean it's not proprietary; just look at the h.264 video format.
To be honest, I'll be glad if exFAT ever takes off and gets widespread use like FAT32 did.
Anyway, 4GB file size limit is a FAT32 limitation, while FAT16's is 4GB volume size limit, so I'm pretty sure the FAT being mentioned is FAT32, unless that '4GB file size limit' in the article is a typo.
That 'FAT from 1977' is not even FAT16 since (final) FAT16 was still years away.
DLD
Senior Member
Posts: 827
Joined: 2002-09-14
Senior Member
Posts: 827
Joined: 2002-09-14
#4451491 Posted on: 11/10/2012 09:24 PM
"open-source operating systems like Linux are left out in the cold."
That is the reason. The only thing m$ really is craving for (except the $) is to find the way(s) of giving hard times to the open source community... This guy (Billy Windows) is a REAL Sauron and his company is a REAL Mordor...
"open-source operating systems like Linux are left out in the cold."
That is the reason. The only thing m$ really is craving for (except the $) is to find the way(s) of giving hard times to the open source community... This guy (Billy Windows) is a REAL Sauron and his company is a REAL Mordor...
yelsewshane
Senior Member
Posts: 1591
Joined: 2007-11-16
Senior Member
Posts: 1591
Joined: 2007-11-16
#4451532 Posted on: 11/10/2012 10:30 PM
I think it's a smart move for microsoft to do this. I know I would if i ran the company to make more money and force others to use my os.
I think it's a smart move for microsoft to do this. I know I would if i ran the company to make more money and force others to use my os.
Stukov
Senior Member
Posts: 4899
Joined: 2007-10-01
Senior Member
Posts: 4899
Joined: 2007-10-01
#4451543 Posted on: 11/10/2012 10:48 PM
"open-source operating systems like Linux are left out in the cold."
That is the reason. The only thing m$ really is craving for (except the $) is to find the way(s) of giving hard times to the open source community... This guy (Billy Windows) is a REAL Sauron and his company is a REAL Mordor...
This is just silly. No. Just no. When I got my 16GB flash drives, they were in FAT. Tried to copy a 4 or 5GB movie over...guess what it couldn't do it. I had to reformat it, my choices were NTFS or exFAT, seeing as a friend has a mac that I give her stuff on, I choose exFAT.
Seriously I don't know what your smoking.
"open-source operating systems like Linux are left out in the cold."
That is the reason. The only thing m$ really is craving for (except the $) is to find the way(s) of giving hard times to the open source community... This guy (Billy Windows) is a REAL Sauron and his company is a REAL Mordor...
This is just silly. No. Just no. When I got my 16GB flash drives, they were in FAT. Tried to copy a 4 or 5GB movie over...guess what it couldn't do it. I had to reformat it, my choices were NTFS or exFAT, seeing as a friend has a mac that I give her stuff on, I choose exFAT.
Seriously I don't know what your smoking.
dcx_badass
Senior Member
Posts: 9983
Joined: 2005-02-26
Senior Member
Posts: 9983
Joined: 2005-02-26
#4451681 Posted on: 11/11/2012 03:34 AM
Needs to be able to have full android and Linux support or I'm not interested.
Needs to be able to have full android and Linux support or I'm not interested.
EspHack
Senior Member
Posts: 2439
Joined: 2010-01-03
Senior Member
Posts: 2439
Joined: 2010-01-03
#4451684 Posted on: 11/11/2012 03:40 AM
now that i see it.. what mobile OS supports exFAT? i was stuck trying to download a file larger than 4gb a few months ago, considering i have a few phones with more than 32GB storage, thats a let down, hd movies can weight up to 14gb
now that i see it.. what mobile OS supports exFAT? i was stuck trying to download a file larger than 4gb a few months ago, considering i have a few phones with more than 32GB storage, thats a let down, hd movies can weight up to 14gb
k1net1cs
Senior Member
Posts: 3783
Joined: 2010-11-14
Senior Member
Posts: 3783
Joined: 2010-11-14
#4452086 Posted on: 11/11/2012 06:09 PM
I don't know about iOS, but Android usually use VFAT for its file storage (its 'sdcard0', so to speak; not to be confused with the external SD card), basically an extension to allow long file names on FAT16 or FAT32 with its underlying (real) filesystem is (usually) FAT16 on Android devices.
IIRC, there were some troubles with using FAT32 for storage on some (Motorola?) Android devices due to MS owning some of FAT32 patents.
I don't know about iOS, but Android usually use VFAT for its file storage (its 'sdcard0', so to speak; not to be confused with the external SD card), basically an extension to allow long file names on FAT16 or FAT32 with its underlying (real) filesystem is (usually) FAT16 on Android devices.
IIRC, there were some troubles with using FAT32 for storage on some (Motorola?) Android devices due to MS owning some of FAT32 patents.
deltatux
Senior Member
Posts: 19051
Joined: 2009-01-25
Senior Member
Posts: 19051
Joined: 2009-01-25
#4452092 Posted on: 11/11/2012 06:23 PM
"open-source operating systems like Linux are left out in the cold."
That is the reason. The only thing m$ really is craving for (except the $) is to find the way(s) of giving hard times to the open source community... This guy (Billy Windows) is a REAL Sauron and his company is a REAL Mordor...
Needs to be able to have full android and Linux support or I'm not interested.
now that i see it.. what mobile OS supports exFAT? i was stuck trying to download a file larger than 4gb a few months ago, considering i have a few phones with more than 32GB storage, thats a let down, hd movies can weight up to 14gb
You guys do know that Android/Linux (depending on the manufacturer) does have exFAT support right? You just need to have that manufacturer to license exFAT for it to read/write exFAT volumes. You know those manufacturers who have announced that they have licensed Microsoft portfolios? They have access to give you exFAT and NTFS capabilities. Those drivers are provided by Tuxera, the guys who brought the open source world ntfs-3g.
My ASUS Transformer Pad Prime can read and write exFAT, I know this because my 32GB MicroSD card has been formatted with it.
One reason why Google actually doesn't like MicroSD cards (along with the fact they rather sell you cloud services) is that Microsoft essentially controls the filesystem used by these memory cards, Google rather uses the ext4 filesystem which is default for Linux devices (Android included). Even on older devices (post-YAFFS2 in Android 2.3 and later) you had 1 GB of ext4 for apps and then 13 GB for FAT32 (for the Nexus S). With Android 4.0 devices, Google unified the entire storage pool to ext4 and to maintain compatibility opted to use MTP and disable block-level access to the file system (ironically MTP is also a Microsoft protocol, but it's an open protocol).
deltatux
"open-source operating systems like Linux are left out in the cold."
That is the reason. The only thing m$ really is craving for (except the $) is to find the way(s) of giving hard times to the open source community... This guy (Billy Windows) is a REAL Sauron and his company is a REAL Mordor...
Needs to be able to have full android and Linux support or I'm not interested.
now that i see it.. what mobile OS supports exFAT? i was stuck trying to download a file larger than 4gb a few months ago, considering i have a few phones with more than 32GB storage, thats a let down, hd movies can weight up to 14gb
You guys do know that Android/Linux (depending on the manufacturer) does have exFAT support right? You just need to have that manufacturer to license exFAT for it to read/write exFAT volumes. You know those manufacturers who have announced that they have licensed Microsoft portfolios? They have access to give you exFAT and NTFS capabilities. Those drivers are provided by Tuxera, the guys who brought the open source world ntfs-3g.
My ASUS Transformer Pad Prime can read and write exFAT, I know this because my 32GB MicroSD card has been formatted with it.
One reason why Google actually doesn't like MicroSD cards (along with the fact they rather sell you cloud services) is that Microsoft essentially controls the filesystem used by these memory cards, Google rather uses the ext4 filesystem which is default for Linux devices (Android included). Even on older devices (post-YAFFS2 in Android 2.3 and later) you had 1 GB of ext4 for apps and then 13 GB for FAT32 (for the Nexus S). With Android 4.0 devices, Google unified the entire storage pool to ext4 and to maintain compatibility opted to use MTP and disable block-level access to the file system (ironically MTP is also a Microsoft protocol, but it's an open protocol).
deltatux
dcx_badass
Senior Member
Posts: 9983
Joined: 2005-02-26
Senior Member
Posts: 9983
Joined: 2005-02-26
#4452176 Posted on: 11/11/2012 08:06 PM
I know some support them, I was more implying universal support.
I know some support them, I was more implying universal support.
k1net1cs
Senior Member
Posts: 3783
Joined: 2010-11-14
Senior Member
Posts: 3783
Joined: 2010-11-14
#4452208 Posted on: 11/11/2012 09:25 PM
Well, that's exactly what MS is trying to do, as been implied by the article; start things up by reaching out device manufacturers.
Well, that's exactly what MS is trying to do, as been implied by the article; start things up by reaching out device manufacturers.
Chouji
Senior Member
Posts: 5636
Joined: 2004-01-10
Senior Member
Posts: 5636
Joined: 2004-01-10
#4452268 Posted on: 11/11/2012 11:43 PM
I don't see the problem here. FAT is useless and outdated, as is FAT32 by todays standards.
I have hundreds of files that are above 4gb in size. Mostly database archives and backups, but still.
Oh all my thumb drives that are over 2gb, i use exFAT.
I have a portable HDD (2.5") which has 2 partitions. a 200MB FAT partition, and ~115GB exFAT.
And the fat partition.. is only there for the exfat update for windows XP machines.
The fat partition doesn't even mount a drive letter, i have to do it manually to get the update file. (this wasn't intentional, but it worked out perfectly.)
If i'm not mistaken, isn't exfat better for SSDs anyways? I remember reading that somewhere, but that was years ago..
I don't see the problem here. FAT is useless and outdated, as is FAT32 by todays standards.
I have hundreds of files that are above 4gb in size. Mostly database archives and backups, but still.
Oh all my thumb drives that are over 2gb, i use exFAT.
I have a portable HDD (2.5") which has 2 partitions. a 200MB FAT partition, and ~115GB exFAT.
And the fat partition.. is only there for the exfat update for windows XP machines.
The fat partition doesn't even mount a drive letter, i have to do it manually to get the update file. (this wasn't intentional, but it worked out perfectly.)
If i'm not mistaken, isn't exfat better for SSDs anyways? I remember reading that somewhere, but that was years ago..
k1net1cs
Senior Member
Posts: 3783
Joined: 2010-11-14
Senior Member
Posts: 3783
Joined: 2010-11-14
#4452400 Posted on: 11/12/2012 05:57 AM
In some (weird) part of the world, it's apparently still cool to use "M$".
I don't see the problem here.
In some (weird) part of the world, it's apparently still cool to use "M$".
Repo Man
Senior Member
Posts: 2300
Joined: 2004-07-21
Senior Member
Posts: 2300
Joined: 2004-07-21
#4452443 Posted on: 11/12/2012 08:25 AM
so if FAT is replaced by exFAT, shouldnt it be called skiNNY instead ?
so if FAT is replaced by exFAT, shouldnt it be called skiNNY instead ?
k1net1cs
Senior Member
Posts: 3783
Joined: 2010-11-14
Senior Member
Posts: 3783
Joined: 2010-11-14
#4452594 Posted on: 11/12/2012 02:21 PM
Actually, it's more like 'obese', what's with 'extra FAT' and large file support. =b
Well, skinnier overhead, though.
Actually, it's more like 'obese', what's with 'extra FAT' and large file support. =b
Well, skinnier overhead, though.
Click here to post a comment for this news story on the message forum.
Senior Member
Posts: 4515
Joined: 2012-11-10
Microsoft can be extremely stupid at times. Do they not understand that the reason FAT is still popular is specifically because of its compatibility? It's the only filesystem that is fully supported by just about every OS, probably including some game consoles as well. Making a new one that is proprietary will not get any (positive) attention from anyone - you're better off just going with NTFS.