Guru3D.com
  • HOME
  • NEWS
    • Channels
    • Archive
  • DOWNLOADS
    • New Downloads
    • Categories
    • Archive
  • GAME REVIEWS
  • ARTICLES
    • Rig of the Month
    • Join ROTM
    • PC Buyers Guide
    • Guru3D VGA Charts
    • Editorials
    • Dated content
  • HARDWARE REVIEWS
    • Videocards
    • Processors
    • Audio
    • Motherboards
    • Memory and Flash
    • SSD Storage
    • Chassis
    • Media Players
    • Power Supply
    • Laptop and Mobile
    • Smartphone
    • Networking
    • Keyboard Mouse
    • Cooling
    • Search articles
    • Knowledgebase
    • More Categories
  • FORUMS
  • NEWSLETTER
  • CONTACT

New Reviews
Radeon Series RX 6700 XT preview & analysis
Corsair MM700 & Corsair Katar Pro XT Review
Guru3D Rig of the Month - February 2021
ASUS GeForce RTX 3060 STRIX Gaming OC review
EVGA GeForce RTX 3060 XC Gaming review
MSI GeForce RTX 3060 Gaming X TRIO review
PALIT GeForce RTX 3060 DUAL OC review
ZOTAC GeForce RTX 3060 AMP WHITE review
Fractal Design Meshify 2 Compact chassis review
Sabrent Rocket 4 PLUS 2TB NVMe SSD review

New Downloads
FurMark Download v1.25
MSI Afterburner 4.6.3 Final Stable Download
Display Driver Uninstaller Download version 18.0.3.7
Guru3D RTSS Rivatuner Statistics Server Download 7.3.0 Final
Media Player Classic - Home Cinema v1.9.10 Download
GeForce 461.72 WHQL driver download
AIDA64 Download Version 6.32.5640 beta
CrystalDiskInfo 8.11.2 Download
AMD Radeon Adrenalin Edition 21.2.3 driver download
GPU-Z Download v2.37.0


New Forum Topics
NVIDIA Re-Confirms Resizable BAR Support on RTX 30 Series GeForce 461.72 WHQL driver download Heat problem? Just did raid 0 m2 ssds GeForce 461.72 WHQL drivers: download & discussion AMD announces Radeon RX 6700 XT 12GB at 479 USD, launches on March 18th Fine Utilise Power of RadeonPRO Software & SweetFX Part 2 Samsung to release variant of Odyssey G9 monitor with miniled backlight and much more Kraken X73 loud on 10850K Resizable Bar?




Guru3D.com » News » Microsoft Windows Bug Is Holding Back AMD Ryzen

Microsoft Windows Bug Is Holding Back AMD Ryzen

by Hilbert Hagedoorn on: 03/10/2017 08:44 AM | source: | 168 comment(s)
Microsoft Windows Bug Is Holding Back AMD Ryzen

We've been addressing the topic widely in our reviews, it makes little sense for Ryzen processors that are that powerful to not perform as well in games in CPU bound situations. Microsoft now kind of confirms the issue that Windows 10 does not detect the simulated SMT threads properly, and the simulated SMT threads are weaker compared to real CPU cores. This could hinder the game performance.

In nothing more then a tweet Microsoft seems to have confirmed the existence of this issue. So basically each core gets an extra simulated thread, that is SMT (simultaneous multi-threading) or what Intel refers to as hyper-threading. A real core obviously is stronger compared to a virtual threaded one. Aka we are back to thread-scheduler bugs. Things remain a bit trivial we feel, when we disabled SMT in the BIOS (and just ran 8-threads) performance only increased marginally on some titles, with an exception for some. But who knows, titles like Rise of the Tomb Raider (which is hit the most) might benefit from properly threaded processors big-time.
  

 
There's more going on with the scheduler though, a weird fact exposed itself that the output of the diagnostic tools for the Windows 10 scheduler that distributes these computing tasks across cores, estimated an overly optimistic cache memory per core for Ryzen. A Ryzen 7 CPU seems to be recognized as a processor with a 136 MB combined cache, where it is in reality is obviously is 20 MB for L2 and L3 caches.

Meanwhile Windows 10 RTC seems to be disliking 0.25x multipliers, causing timing issues and Microsoft’s scheduler might not understand the different CCX core-to-core latencies either. So yes, most paths now lead back to the thread scheduler.

In short, the Windows thread-scheduler does not line up with the AMD Ryzen architecture.

Back in the days when Intel introduced Hyper-threading many similar issues have been addressed. From here on-wards it will be a waiting game as we'll have to wait and see how Microsoft will address this matter and see what effect these two factors will have on the slightly disappointing game performance results. But sure, it is terrific news that Microsoft found an issue and is correcting it, let us hope that Microsoft sorts out the scheduler and cache issues as soon as possible. Maybe the upcoming Patch Tuesday update scheduled for March 14 will bring this coveted patch.



Microsoft Windows Bug Is Holding Back AMD Ryzen




« Dell to release S2318NX, S2418NX and S2718NX IPS Displays with HDR · Microsoft Windows Bug Is Holding Back AMD Ryzen · AMD Ryzen Gets Delidded - And It Is a Tricky Thing to Do »

Related Stories

AMD Teams up with Microsoft to Advance Open Source Cloud Hardware - 03/09/2017 08:12 AM
AMD announced their collaboration with Microsoft to incorporate the cloud delivery features of AMD's next-generation "Naples" processor with Microsoft's Project Olympus -- Microsoft's n...

Microsoft Stops OneDrive unlimited storage plans - 03/07/2017 08:23 AM
Announced last year and starting today Microsoft no longer offers unlimited storage to OneDrive users. Subscribers of Office 365 could previously store an unlimited amount of data on Microsoft&rs...

Microsoft Adds Ability to Block Non-Windows Store Apps in Win10 - 02/28/2017 07:22 AM
Is Windows 10 on full device-style lockdown, requiring you to use apps from the Windows Store? Beta News reports, this is only an option which can be enabled should you so desire, and while it is in t...

Microsoft will release Windows 10 Cloud - 02/06/2017 05:31 PM
Buty Windows 10 Cloud has actually very little to do with the cloud, think of it as a simplified Windows RT. Earlier on it was rumored already that Microsoft is planning to launch another version of ...

Microsoft to add Refresh on Demand to Windows Defender - 01/11/2017 08:32 AM
Microsoft will be adding a new featture towards Windows Defender called Refresh on Demand. The function will allow you tor ecover from a slow or crashing setup by reinstalling the base Windows and re...


34 pages « 3 4 5 6 > »


DARKSF
Member



Posts: 55
Joined: 2005-03-08

#5404752 Posted on: 03/10/2017 11:23 AM
I still wait to see does anyone plan to make a Windows 7 vs Windows 10 shootout on Ryzen or you are all just too scared from Microsoft.
And if you gonna give me the OLD OS reason go look at Steam statistics Windows 10 is loosing share for a second month in a roll and Windows 7 is gaining share on the Steam userbase.

Neo Cyrus
Senior Member



Posts: 9692
Joined: 2006-02-14

#5404758 Posted on: 03/10/2017 11:31 AM
I still wait to see does anyone plan to make a Windows 7 vs Windows 10 shootout on Ryzen or you are all just too scared from Microsoft.
And if you gonna give me the OLD OS reason go look at Steam statistics Windows 10 is loosing share for a second month in a roll and Windows 7 is gaining share on the Steam userbase.
It's already been done with past CPUs. On Intel CPUs it's not going to make any difference, the results were always plus or minus an absolute maximum of 2%, usually 1% or less which is within margin of error. With AMD CPUs it might actually matter, especially after Windows 10 is updated to properly use Ryzen. Might. We'll see.

If what you're saying is that you want to see proof that Ryzen chips will actually perform better on Windows 10 (once updated) than Windows 7 before considering Win 10 worthwhile, then don't bother. Straight up performance on what's currently available is not the reason to upgrade to Windows 10.

SirDremor
Senior Member



Posts: 586
Joined: 2008-06-20

#5404760 Posted on: 03/10/2017 11:40 AM
Read my earlier posts in this thread and moeppel's post as well.

The TL;DR is that it only affects Ryzen because their implementation of SMT isn't detected properly by Windows. If you want more details read the posts.

Actually I've read all posts before posting my question.
Your posts don't have any definite answer, only elaborations on what might cause the issue.
Your posts don't have info on Intel's HT either, so even if we know that HT cores are recognized correctly, there's no guarantee Windows works absolutely correct with such cores. So, in theory, any fix from them can also affect Intel's CPUs.
I am not saying this will be the case, but at least there's nothing pointing to the contrary.

Neo Cyrus
Senior Member



Posts: 9692
Joined: 2006-02-14

#5404766 Posted on: 03/10/2017 11:52 AM
Actually I've read all posts before posting my question.
Your posts don't have any definite answer, only elaborations on what might cause the issue.
Your posts don't have info on Intel's HT either, so even if we know that HT cores are recognized correctly, there's no guarantee Windows works absolutely correct with such cores. So, in theory, any fix from them can also affect Intel's CPUs.
I am not saying this will be the case, but at least there's nothing pointing to the contrary.
Let me be perfectly clear then: Windows already properly uses Intel's Hyper Threading. There are no foreseeable performance improvements for Intel's implementation of SMT through Windows updates. Meanwhile AMD's implementation of SMT is not being used properly at all by Windows.

This is why I'm hoping there will be some real, notable, improvements to Ryzen's performance once Windows is updated. Who knows if it'll actually be a notable amount, we'll see.

JAMF72
Member



Posts: 22
Joined: 2015-03-25

#5404767 Posted on: 03/10/2017 11:54 AM
Looking at the graph in the article linked below, IMHO we should expect the Ryzen's spike on the left of the chart to move right a bit and create a nice(r) Bell-curve.

http://techreport.com/review/31546/where-minimum-fps-figures-mislead-frame-time-analysis-shines

34 pages « 3 4 5 6 > »


Post New Comment
Click here to post a comment for this news story on the message forum.


Guru3D.com © 2021