Microsoft confirms problem with Windows 10 update halting systems from starting

#5635500 Posted on: 02/04/2019 10:24 PM

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Doesn't matter, I'm already around 90% migrated to kde neon on most machines and fedora on my sp3, steam is working great with linux, I don't plan to buy anymore games or any other software that only works on windows.

Windows 7 is the last windows os I'll ever use.

#5635524 Posted on: 02/04/2019 11:12 PM

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Yet, I am continually told how much better W10 is than W7...

#5635577 Posted on: 02/05/2019 02:36 AM

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Ummm....Windows has been used in cars. The first 2 iterations of Ford's "Infotainment" system are Windows based. To be more specific, they're based on WindowsCE.... The 3rd iteration is based on Blackberry's QNX.

#5635580 Posted on: 02/05/2019 02:45 AM

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wait wtf there is another one?
Microsoft has confirmed an issue with the latest update for Windows Defender for both Windows 10 and Windows Server 2016. The update was released earlier this week and due to the issue, some Windows 1...

Microsoft confirms problem with Windows 10 update halting systems from starting

#5635603 Posted on: 02/05/2019 06:34 AM

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I only wish M$ develops simple and effective OS. Windows 10 is not simple and not effective.

More complexity and bloatware in Windows10 results in such poor quality.

#5635682 Posted on: 02/05/2019 11:24 AM

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How many people on here do you think are affected by this?

#5635688 Posted on: 02/05/2019 11:41 AM

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Windows for a long while was hardly any different. The only real difference is MS licensed Windows to OEMs and was very late to introduce driver signing, whereas Apple wanted to provide their own hardware and control their market.
Sure, today MS is open-sourcing a lot of their existing stuff, but Windows itself is still pretty locked-down and proprietary.

I was talking about hardware platform. Apple makes its hardware itself, so this hardware platform is completely closed for other manufacturers. We can guess that it is much easier to implement stable OS when you do not depend on 3rd party hardware and drivers.

Personal anecdotes are not substantial evidence. I myself haven't encountered any BSODs transitioning to 8.1 to 10 either (and I've done several transitions), but that doesn't mean anything.

So you tell me to dismiss my personal anecdotes to listen personal anecdotes from other people.
I am not some village guy using one or two rigs at home. I professionally develop under (for) Windows since 1995 (switching from DOS). Only at last work place (started at 2015) I utilized 7 rigs (upgrades + I was borrowed by two departments) shifting from Win7 to Win10, and my co-workers utilized some 50+ Windows rigs. None of these rigs had severe bugs. There were failing PSUs, disks, motherboards though.
As for speaking with Linux and UNIX administrators, I have never seen ones for all my developer years. I have switched only 5 companies since Windows came, and only in one of them there was products not for Windows. I guess Linux and UNIX are not that popular in companies here in Russia.


I don't know what kind of world you live in to think that the majority of Windows users have no issues. That's absurd. The majority of Windows users merely tolerate their issues or accept them as their reality, but that doesn't mean they don't have valid complaints that don't exist on other OSes. And keep in mind how I phrased that: I'm not counting complaints that you can find elsewhere, because that means they're not necessarily MS's fault.

OP is about critical bug. And you was saying:
No, but just about every modern OS out there has significantly fewer and less critical bugs than Windows.

So I was betting about majority of Windows users not having critical bugs preventing them using their rigs.

#5635708 Posted on: 02/05/2019 12:14 PM

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Was it relevant to bring cars and robots here in this thread?

PS I mean do we see general purpose Linux/UNIX distros as a real time Operating Systems?

#5635800 Posted on: 02/05/2019 04:18 PM

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I was talking about hardware platform. Apple makes its hardware itself, so this hardware platform is completely closed for other manufacturers. We can guess that it is much easier to implement stable OS when you do not depend on 3rd party hardware and drivers.
That's very true, but hardware is only one factor. OEMs that ship with Windows (including MS's own hardware) don't typically face hardware-related bugs, and if they do, I don't fault MS for that. In the case of this major bug reported in the OP, this isn't a hardware issue; MS is unquestionably at fault here.
So you tell me to dismiss my personal anecdotes to listen personal anecdotes from other people.
There's a big difference between personal anecdotes and documented 3rd party benchmarks.
If you want to go by anecdotes, I could write an essay of my own examples where a fresh and fully up-to-date install of Windows is has more issues when compared to another OS performing a similar task.
I am not some village guy using one or two rigs at home. I professionally develop under (for) Windows since 1995 (switching from DOS). Only at last work place (started at 2015) I utilized 7 rigs (upgrades + I was borrowed by two departments) shifting from Win7 to Win10, and my co-workers utilized some 50+ Windows rigs. None of these rigs had severe bugs. There were failing PSUs, disks, motherboards though.
I have no doubt whatsoever that you are a legitimate expert in Windows; probably better than me (and that being said, I've spent the first half of my life with DOS and every version of Windows since 3.1, so I'm well-acquainted, to say the least). But, isn't that in and of itself a confirmation bias? Anything you devote your entire career to is going to seem great. Being an expert can blind you from issues that people who are less familiar may encounter.
I used to think Windows was the best OS, until I started trying other OSes and realized how slow, bloated, inefficient , insecure, and broken it really was. Windows 7 was a major leap forward for MS; it was a legitimately good OS. But, that's it; it was just "good". It wasn't great. I also thought Windows 8.1 was good (not 8.0 though - that was bad). Windows 10 has real potential to be called "great", but MS steps on its own toes with their horrid track record with major regressive updates and features you can't turn off . Ironically, the things that make Windows 10 great are things that other OSes have had for years (in some cases, decades).
As for speaking with Linux and UNIX administrators, I have never seen ones for all my developer years. I have switched only 5 companies since Windows came, and only in one of them there was products not for Windows. I guess Linux and UNIX are not that popular in companies here in Russia.
That too would skew your perspective, since you have very little reference of what other OSes are like. And thus, is the crux of the matter:
You most likely outrank me in your knowledge of Windows, but how many days, weeks, or months of your life (in total) have you spent using non-Windows OSes? Have you ever spent an entire week where none of the PCs you used had Windows? Have you ever set up a non-Windows server yourself? I'm not at all ridiculing you here (there's nothing wrong with how you've run your life/career), but, without proper and dedicated exposure to other platforms, how are you able to compare Windows to them?
So I was betting about majority of Windows users not having critical bugs preventing them using their rigs.
That I would definitely agree with.

Was it relevant to bring cars and robots here in this thread?

PS I mean do we see general purpose Linux/UNIX distros as a real time Operating Systems?
I'd say it's relevant, since such markets depend on stability (which is the main subject at hand).
There's no such thing as a general-purpose RTOS, because being real-time makes the OS no longer general-purpose. Nitpicking and semantics aside, yes, there are Linux, Unix, and other Unix-like distros that are configured as RTOSes.

#5635809 Posted on: 02/05/2019 04:38 PM

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I got an icon on my taskbar today that I have never seen before while on W10 for the last 3 years. I haven't updated anything afaik since I did a 1804 fresh install while ago.

Current build: "W10 Pro Build 17134.rs4_release.180410-1804"

I run the Windows Update troubleshooter just to see what will happen. Didn't really wanna update tbh but oh well. Troubleshooter applied a fix and now it's waiting for me to restart.

I better start backing up some things first. :p

Edit: Nvm, cancelled it. I couldn't bring myself to update to 1809. Maybe next update..

#5635853 Posted on: 02/05/2019 06:16 PM

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@schmidtbag
And here I go - better late then never - stating my position here in this thread: I just performed against overdramatic reactions of some gurus. Being a developer I deal with bugs all the time. And being with Windows for almost all my professional life I dealt with bugs in all versions of Windows.

I agree that Win10 displays more numbers of more severe bugs, but it is clear (to me as developer at least) that since Win10 adopted another model of introducing new features, of new versions - it was unavoidable. Win7 had only one upgrade - SP1, while Win10 had six upgrades. It seems to me that MS people believe that having users in Windows Insider Program will provide high level of QA feedback. That`s the term "beta testing" in a nutshell - when users try new version to catch bugs and to report them to developers. May be Linux beta testers do a better job, and Linux "authorities" do not rush the beta testing period.

I have never stated that Windows is better OS.
I have never used other Operating Systems as a user, but I have read Linux developers` bug discussions quite a bit, and I can say people are people even when they develop better Operating Systems.
I have never used other Operating Systems myself because I am not that interested in that. I am interested in programming, and from that point of view I have read a bit about different Operating Systems. But being not a system programmer I don`t need to dive too deep into kernel mechanics and differences.

I myself adopted a new approach to updates and upgrades of Windows: I disable automatic updates and when new stuff is out I wait and see how it works. (Same goes for a new games - I do not touch them for at least a several months.) And of course I do regular backups.

#5635860 Posted on: 02/05/2019 06:51 PM

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In the manner at which they approached the new model, sure, that sounds about right. But the bugs in general are not unavoidable, specifically because of your next point:

MS has been very inadequate for beta testing. They aren't checking their work and they're pushing stuff out too early. I don't at all see any problem with Windows having un-polished beta updates, but the problem is MS is very vague about what qualifies as that, and many users who don't want to be a guinea pig are inadvertently becoming one just by simply manually checking for updates. If MS would just have a checkbox for "enable beta updates" then that pretty much solves everyone's problems, and articles like this wouldn't exist.

I know you didn't specify which OS was better; the reason I mentioned "I thought Windows was the best" was to exemplify how (at the time) my lack of knowledge of other platforms heavily skewed my perspective, because I didn't extensively use anything else to know any better.
I'm not suggesting you ought to use another OS or expand your interests, my point was that you don't have sufficient experience with other OSes to be able to accurately compare them to Windows, hence my initial response to you.

That is a good approach; I tend to do the same.

#5635878 Posted on: 02/05/2019 07:43 PM

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Windows Insider Program is the beta testing ground. If you are not the part of it you are not a beta tester. This thing is completely new for MS, they had no such programs for earlier versions (at least in such scale). Question is how good it is organized. We can guess not good at all. Also we can guess that Linux/UNIX beta testers are of higher level, have longer history, etc. We will see whether MS will learn and improve there.

#5635882 Posted on: 02/05/2019 08:04 PM

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ya there's this new thing it's called platform gaming systems. they make the OS almost invisible aside from a GUI for kitshy end user options (although they actually run on directx too), and remove practically all tinkering by making sure beforehand, with teams of dedicated IT specialists and game testers, that everything works precisely as it should in as predictable and stable a manner as possible which is easy on uniform hardware. get a ps4 :p ... sorry I knw i'm being annoying just teasing lol.

as for windows 7 vs windows 10, and which API is best, some things work better on one OS, others work better on another, depending on hardware. if you don't like tinkering / fail to get results than pc gaming is probably not for you. I go to my ps4 when im fed up with all the tinkering or it's some new game unavailable on pc/emulators yet. I like both. maybe in 10 years. the fact that MS has been adding game mode and performance and stability and security updates constantly is a good step in the right direction, and it's the reason why windows 10 is slowly evolving past windows 7 which has been neglected (yet, for me, windows 7 is the only place I've been able to make final fantasy xi online run in 3d vision, the older cemu + breath of the wild that helix mod's 3d vision patch works on still runs way better in windows 7, and it's the only way to run certain older apps like iz3d.exe--for project 64--if you want another method of stereoscopic injection, and probably a lot more legacy programs that just BSoD in windows 10--and I own these original platform games so it's arguably legal).

it is kind of a mess. some things work better for some in certain circumstances, and poorly for others on other hardware / os / api's. and that's why I have been dual booting windows 7 and 10 ever since it was called windows blue (aka windows 8's beta). just have to test it yourself if you like pc gaming so much. the advantage is customizeability. like forcing even older cards to do stereoscopic gaming on 3dtvs (which nobody does, I know. just my personal example lol). or running graphics better than a gaming platform can. and gaming platforms ditch supporting your performance/security/even basic functions like ps(3) network's disappearing games that you once owned, after a few short years when the next system comes out which sux. guess I can never reformat my ps3 again if I want to keep those... but at least you don't have to think! (just have to spend more money and be limited to what they give you)

#5635883 Posted on: 02/05/2019 08:05 PM

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From what I can tell, the Insider Program is more like an alpha testing ground. I recently recall hearing that those who manually check for updates are prone to getting updates that haven't been fully tested yet, and this is where MS is getting so heavily scrutinized.

The nice thing about Linux is how transparent everything is; you don't need to guess how things are done, and all decisions/changes are made public:
Linus Torvalds himself (the creator of Linux), and a few people he "appointed" (for lack of a better word), are the ones who ultimately control upstream Linux. It's surprisingly a small group of people. Most of the commits they deal with come from major corporations like IBM, Intel, Oracle, Google, Facebook, AMD, and even Microsoft, each of which has their own testers. Once someone like Linus approves of a commit, it goes into a kernel release candidate, which usually lasts for a week or two, and is available to anyone who wants to test something unstable. There are typically 7 release candidates before the kernel is officially deemed stable (and even then, the various distributions have a different definition of what they deem stable, so they might not be quick to use it). I don't know all the details but there is usually a point where the RCs are no longer accepting any new features, and are strictly testing for any changes in stability, performance, or functionality when compared to previous versions. So, there's basically a hierarchy of how testing is done.

I'm sure MS will learn, but they really need to hurry up because their current system is reflecting poorly.