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Guru3D.com » News » Microsoft brings Windows desktop apps to mobile ARM processors

Microsoft brings Windows desktop apps to mobile ARM processors

by Hilbert Hagedoorn on: 12/08/2016 10:42 AM | source: | 11 comment(s)
Microsoft brings Windows desktop apps to mobile ARM processors

Microsoft isgiving it another go, adding support for ARM processors with Windows. Starting next year, Windows 10 will be able to emulate traditional desktop apps, allowing device creators to build laptops, tablets, and phones that support the millions of existing applications in the Windows world.

Windows 10 on ARM is arriving thanks to a partnership with Qualcomm. Initially, Microsoft will support the Qualcomm Snapdragon 835 processors, and laptops are expected to be the first devices we’ll see in the market next year. Microsoft is enabling Windows 10 to support ARM chips directly by building an emulator into the operating system. Devices will be able to run x86 win32 applications like Chrome or Photoshop, but Microsoft won’t be emulating x64 variants of these apps. That’s not a huge problem as not many apps have been compiled for x64 instructions, and most that have also have an x86 counterpart. What this means is you’ll be able to buy a lightweight laptop with good battery life and support for Windows desktop apps next year, reports the verge.

“Think of it as the Windows 10 customers know,” explains Microsoft’s Windows and device chief, Terry Myerson, in an interview with The Verge. There will be support for peripherals, applications, and even enterprise capabilities. Microsoft isn’t detailing exactly how its emulation works, but developers won’t have to do anything special to get their apps to run on ARM chips. The regular MSI or EXE packages will work just like they do on machines with Intel chipsets. The differences will be largely in performance. Microsoft will be emulating the CPU instruction set, which means that any apps that are CPU heavy will still have greater performance on Intel-based machines. The rest of the I/O, like memory, storage, or graphics, will be intercepted by the emulator and handled natively by the operating system.

Microsoft is demonstrating its desktop apps on ARM capability with Adobe’s Photoshop software today, but any of the millions of desktop apps will just work according to the company. “I think people are going to have to experience the devices for themselves,” explains Myerson. “I think that for many people it's going to be a very delightful experience.”

 

So what does this mean for Microsoft’s universal apps? “The Universal app platform is our future platform,” claims Myerson. “At the same time, it's so important to us that all the applications that are written for Windows over the last 25 years continue to run and continue to run well.” Microsoft is now investing fully in both, but it hopes developers will take advantage of universal apps for the better touch, pen, and modern capabilities like head-mounted display support.

Microsoft isn’t revealing a lot of information about this new ARM initiative, but it won’t arrive in time for the Creators Update to Windows 10, expected to launch in March next year. That means we won’t see ARM-powered devices for quite some time. Microsoft is focusing on laptops first, but I asked Myerson about the possibilities for phones to run these desktop apps. “We're thinking about platform that supports small screens, large screens, devices with no screens at all, head-mounted displays, and so what can these device makers build will really be up to them.”

That leaves things really open for device makers to choose what they want to do with this new support, providing that Microsoft has enabled it well across the multiple variants of Windows 10. I also pushed Myerson on what this means for ARM servers in the future, but it’s early days and Microsoft isn’t ready to talk fully about its enterprise plans. Qualcomm wants to take on Intel at the datacenter level, but the performance gaps will need to be closed before that’s ever possible. It won’t be long before mobile will drive the semiconductor industry toward new breakthroughs, and Microsoft is letting the industry know it’s ready to support any change the future brings.







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PrMinisterGR
Senior Member



Posts: 7466
Joined: 2014-09-27

#5368098 Posted on: 12/08/2016 04:28 PM
Well that's the thing - Windows didn't really become light enough. At the time of it's release, Windows RT required hardware that was relatively powerful. Basically anything worse than a Cortex A9 was either incompatible or too slow. Meanwhile, you could run a full graphical Linux or Android OS on hardware much older or slower. Both OSes had a complete set of optimized software available for users.

Keep in mind, ARM is RISC. It has just recently supported 64-bit and virtualization instructions. It is inherently less capable than x86. If MS expects a comfortable user experience with this compatibility layer, they're probably going to have ARMv8 processors as the minimum requirement. Those are not common and most devices that support those aren't cheap.


Agreed, but that's a big "if". It took forever for companies to transition away from Windows XP - it's going to take even longer to support an entirely new architecture.

Personally, I think these ARM devices would work great as thin clients.

If this has a Snapdragon 820 as a minimum, it's still fine. If the first release is at the same time as the 835, it should be completely fine since hardware will only go up.

schmidtbag
Senior Member



Posts: 5590
Joined: 2012-11-10

#5368111 Posted on: 12/08/2016 04:45 PM
If this has a Snapdragon 820 as a minimum, it's still fine. If the first release is at the same time as the 835, it should be completely fine since hardware will only go up.

The Snapdragon 820 will perform fine as a minimum, but for ARM, that's very powerful for a minimum. In x86 terms, that would be like saying a low-end i5 is the bare minimum to run Windows smoothly.

I understand there's not a whole lot they can do about it for reasons already mentioned, but this is already off to a bad start. For pretty much every other modern OS that runs on ARM, you can have something with 1/3 the performance of the Snapdragon 820 and it will run smooth.

Basically my point is if MS intends to make ARM work properly through brute force, it defeats the purpose of using ARM. ARM has 2 major benefits: being cheaper than x86, and being more power efficient. Generally speaking, the faster you make an ARM CPU go, the more the performance-per-watt gap closes between a competing Intel. The Snapdragon 820, according to a quick Google search, costs $70. That's encroaching on Intel prices.
Since emulating x86 software on ARM is slower than software compiled for ARM, there is pretty much no advantage running Windows on ARM. You could probably pay less for an Intel device that will run faster and more efficiently.

craycray
Senior Member



Posts: 145
Joined: 2015-12-18

#5368116 Posted on: 12/08/2016 04:51 PM
not a giant step as there is already lot of x86 windows / arm android crossover tool that make one app running on other...

but it's good anyway.

To my understanding, Crossover runs Windows apps on X86 android devices. This is running x86 apps on ARM. Completely different.

schmidtbag
Senior Member



Posts: 5590
Joined: 2012-11-10

#5368128 Posted on: 12/08/2016 05:03 PM
To my understanding, Crossover runs Windows apps on X86 android devices. This is running x86 apps on ARM. Completely different.

That's true, but this software has been around for a while:
https://eltechs.com/product/exagear-desktop/

Use the x86 version of Wine (or Crossover) and you can run Windows programs on ARM-based Linux.


Take note how Exagear doesn't require a relatively powerful CPU.

craycray
Senior Member



Posts: 145
Joined: 2015-12-18

#5368138 Posted on: 12/08/2016 05:14 PM
That's true, but this software has been around for a while:
https://eltechs.com/product/exagear-desktop/

Use the x86 version of Wine (or Crossover) and you can run Windows programs on ARM-based Linux.


Take note how Exagear doesn't require a relatively powerful CPU.

That is pretty awesome! I am just happy that this is going to be an official OS, without any hacks.

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