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Intel to manufacture ARM SoCs
Pretty big news really, Intel entered a licensing agreement with ARM, basically this allows parties like LG, Qualcomm, Apple, and Samsung, to fab ARM SoCs at Intel fabs.
The two chipmakers, whose designs and technology dominate in computing and mobile, unveiled the agreement Tuesday at the Intel Developer Forum in San Francisco. The accord will let Intel offer third-party semiconductor companies its most advanced 10-nanometer production lines for manufacturing the complex chips usually used in smartphones reports Bloomberg:
Intel, which gets the majority of its revenue from making personal-computer processors, has failed to gain ground in the larger and faster-growing phone market -- the stronghold of ARM’s technology. Under Chief Executive Officer Brian Krzanich, Intel is trying to persuade other chipmakers to use its factories for their production. Adding licenses for ARM’s technology could open up that business to fabricating chips based on those designs for companies such as Qualcomm Inc. and Apple Inc., which now have their chips produced by Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. and others.
Intel’s embrace of the competing technology comes as the PC market continues to decline and growth in the lucrative server-chip market slows. The Santa Clara, California-based company began offering foundry services -- outsourced manufacturing -- under Krzanich’s predecessor, Paul Otellini, but hadn’t announced any major customers placing orders in large volume.
Indicating that those fortunes may be changing, Intel announced that LG Electronics Inc., South Korea’s second-biggest phone maker behind Samsung Electronics Co., will use Intel’s foundry business to manufacture 10 nanometer mobile-phone parts.
Separately, Intel said it won’t use extreme ultraviolet lithography as a manufacturing technique in its 10-nanometer production. The technology isn’t ready for the next generation of production, 7 nanometer, Intel also said, and the company won’t use the chipmaking technique until it delivers the promised efficiency.
ASML Holding NV is the main manufacturer of EUV machinery and has been trying to make it ready for full use for more than a decade. ASML’s stock fell as much as 3.5 percent in U.S. trading Tuesday following the comments by Mark Bohr, Intel’s head of process architecture.
“I can’t say whether it’s a year from now or three years from now,” Bohr said of the tehnique at the Intel conference. “I am hopeful.”
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Stormyandcold
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#5322570 Posted on: 08/17/2016 05:17 PM
A sign of the times really. The tech is on the verge of maxing-out and it's getting harder to find new business.
A sign of the times really. The tech is on the verge of maxing-out and it's getting harder to find new business.
PrMinisterGR
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#5322605 Posted on: 08/17/2016 06:49 PM
They are not switching to ARM. They are renting their fabs basically. Intel is by far the most advanced chip manufacturer in the world. Most other fabs are at least 3 years behind them. With this move they will make a ton of extra money and have a clear peek into everything their competition does. It's a win-win from them.
Their x86/64 small SoCs could not cut it, so now they are switching to ARM? Too many hands in the pot already I'm afraid, didn't AMD back out of the ARM race?
They are not switching to ARM. They are renting their fabs basically. Intel is by far the most advanced chip manufacturer in the world. Most other fabs are at least 3 years behind them. With this move they will make a ton of extra money and have a clear peek into everything their competition does. It's a win-win from them.
thatguy91
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#5322607 Posted on: 08/17/2016 06:55 PM
Not really. The 14 nm process is good from Global Foundaries/Samsung, and TSMC on the shrunken node as well. Intel does have 10 nm but currently they haven't got it working quite right. So far, instead of getting high performance 10 nm Cannonlake processors we're getting a modified Kaby Lake (Coffee Lake) instead, on 14 nm. Cannonlake is now reserved only for the low end and slower parts. The news of a 6-core Coffee Lake (Kaby Lake Refresh, and Kaby Lake a Skylake Refresh was already an added processor due to Cannonlake delays) overshadowed this fact.
They are not switching to ARM. They are renting their fabs basically. Intel is by far the most advanced chip manufacturer in the world. Most other fabs are at least 3 years behind them. With this move they will make a ton of extra money and have a clear peek into everything their competition does. It's a win-win from them.
Not really. The 14 nm process is good from Global Foundaries/Samsung, and TSMC on the shrunken node as well. Intel does have 10 nm but currently they haven't got it working quite right. So far, instead of getting high performance 10 nm Cannonlake processors we're getting a modified Kaby Lake (Coffee Lake) instead, on 14 nm. Cannonlake is now reserved only for the low end and slower parts. The news of a 6-core Coffee Lake (Kaby Lake Refresh, and Kaby Lake a Skylake Refresh was already an added processor due to Cannonlake delays) overshadowed this fact.
Denial
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#5322612 Posted on: 08/17/2016 07:03 PM
Intel's 14nm has a smaller feature size compared to Samsung's 14nm.
http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/FeatureSizes1.png
Their 10nm extends the gap even further according to reports at semiwiki (not to be confused with semiaccurate)
Not really. The 14 nm process is good from Global Foundaries/Samsung, and TSMC on the shrunken node as well. Intel does have 10 nm but currently they haven't got it working quite right. So far, instead of getting high performance 10 nm Cannonlake processors we're getting a modified Kaby Lake (Coffee Lake) instead, on 14 nm. Cannonlake is now reserved only for the low end and slower parts. The news of a 6-core Coffee Lake (Kaby Lake Refresh, and Kaby Lake a Skylake Refresh was already an added processor due to Cannonlake delays) overshadowed this fact.
Intel's 14nm has a smaller feature size compared to Samsung's 14nm.
http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/FeatureSizes1.png
Their 10nm extends the gap even further according to reports at semiwiki (not to be confused with semiaccurate)
PrMinisterGR
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#5322650 Posted on: 08/17/2016 08:29 PM
Not really. The 14 nm process is good from Global Foundaries/Samsung, and TSMC on the shrunken node as well. Intel does have 10 nm but currently they haven't got it working quite right. So far, instead of getting high performance 10 nm Cannonlake processors we're getting a modified Kaby Lake (Coffee Lake) instead, on 14 nm. Cannonlake is now reserved only for the low end and slower parts. The news of a 6-core Coffee Lake (Kaby Lake Refresh, and Kaby Lake a Skylake Refresh was already an added processor due to Cannonlake delays) overshadowed this fact.
It's not even close actually. The Intel 14nm is almost what the TSMC/GloFo 10nm is going to be.
Give it a read here.
“Not all 10nm technologies are the same,” said Mark Bohr, a senior fellow and director of process architecture and integration at Intel. “It’s now becoming clear that what other companies call a ‘10nm’ technology will not be as dense as Intel’s 10nm technology. We expect that what others call ‘7nm’ will be close to Intel’s 10nm technology for density.”
It wasn’t always like that. Traditionally, chipmakers scaled the key transistor specs by 0.7X at each node. This, in turn, roughly doubles the transistor density at each node.
Intel continues to follow this formula. At 16nm/14nm, though, others deviated from the equation from a density standpoint. For example, foundry vendors introduced finFETs at 16nm/14nm, but it incorporated a 20nm interconnect scheme.
Technically, the foundries didn’t introduce finFETs at a full node (14nm), but rather at a half node. TSMC, for one, calls it 16nm.
Not really. The 14 nm process is good from Global Foundaries/Samsung, and TSMC on the shrunken node as well. Intel does have 10 nm but currently they haven't got it working quite right. So far, instead of getting high performance 10 nm Cannonlake processors we're getting a modified Kaby Lake (Coffee Lake) instead, on 14 nm. Cannonlake is now reserved only for the low end and slower parts. The news of a 6-core Coffee Lake (Kaby Lake Refresh, and Kaby Lake a Skylake Refresh was already an added processor due to Cannonlake delays) overshadowed this fact.
It's not even close actually. The Intel 14nm is almost what the TSMC/GloFo 10nm is going to be.
Give it a read here.
“Not all 10nm technologies are the same,” said Mark Bohr, a senior fellow and director of process architecture and integration at Intel. “It’s now becoming clear that what other companies call a ‘10nm’ technology will not be as dense as Intel’s 10nm technology. We expect that what others call ‘7nm’ will be close to Intel’s 10nm technology for density.”
It wasn’t always like that. Traditionally, chipmakers scaled the key transistor specs by 0.7X at each node. This, in turn, roughly doubles the transistor density at each node.
Intel continues to follow this formula. At 16nm/14nm, though, others deviated from the equation from a density standpoint. For example, foundry vendors introduced finFETs at 16nm/14nm, but it incorporated a 20nm interconnect scheme.
Technically, the foundries didn’t introduce finFETs at a full node (14nm), but rather at a half node. TSMC, for one, calls it 16nm.
Dch48
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#5322677 Posted on: 08/17/2016 09:25 PM
Their x86/64 small SoCs could not cut it, so now they are switching to ARM? Too many hands in the pot already I'm afraid, didn't AMD back out of the ARM race?
Actually the Atoms, since Bay Trail, have competed very well in the mobile sector (tablets and 2 in ones) with the competition from Qualcomm and the others. They are not switching but rather renting out their manufacturing facilities.
umeng2002
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#5322835 Posted on: 08/18/2016 03:26 AM
Just a hedge against lost revenue from AMD CPU competition with Zen and Zen +.
Just a hedge against lost revenue from AMD CPU competition with Zen and Zen +.
sykozis
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#5322848 Posted on: 08/18/2016 03:54 AM
Intel is going to be manufacturing ARM based processors for other companies. Intel has no interest in developing ARM based processors. The profit margins aren't large enough.
AMD is still working on ARM based processors. They recently released an ARM based Opteron and there's rumored to be an ARM based Zen processor in the works.
What lost revenue?
Their x86/64 small SoCs could not cut it, so now they are switching to ARM? Too many hands in the pot already I'm afraid, didn't AMD back out of the ARM race?
Intel is going to be manufacturing ARM based processors for other companies. Intel has no interest in developing ARM based processors. The profit margins aren't large enough.
AMD is still working on ARM based processors. They recently released an ARM based Opteron and there's rumored to be an ARM based Zen processor in the works.
Just a hedge against lost revenue from AMD CPU competition with Zen and Zen +.
What lost revenue?
Glidefan
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#5322968 Posted on: 08/18/2016 11:26 AM
Intel isn't doing just x86 or 64 bit x86.
They were in RISC cpus as well. Even if it didn't work out as well.
(i960 for example; i think it has some Arm in it's DNA. Had that chip in my first DSL modem.)
Intel isn't doing just x86 or 64 bit x86.
They were in RISC cpus as well. Even if it didn't work out as well.
(i960 for example; i think it has some Arm in it's DNA. Had that chip in my first DSL modem.)
alexzogh
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#5323354 Posted on: 08/19/2016 12:33 AM
This board has a short memory.
Intel inhereted an ARM license many years ago when they purched DEC's STrongARM division, and built it's own line of ARM processors called xscale. Even when they sold xscale to Marvell a decade ago, they kept their ARM license.
This board has a short memory.
Intel inhereted an ARM license many years ago when they purched DEC's STrongARM division, and built it's own line of ARM processors called xscale. Even when they sold xscale to Marvell a decade ago, they kept their ARM license.
PrMinisterGR
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#5323407 Posted on: 08/19/2016 02:23 AM
Intel is going to be manufacturing ARM based processors for other companies. Intel has no interest in developing ARM based processors. The profit margins aren't large enough.
Last quarter Qualcomm had $6.0BN revenue and $1.2BN net profit over that. The profit margins are amazing, considering the sector, and Intel also has the best fabs in the world to produce chips, unlike Qualcomm who has to beg around Samsung/TSCM to get priority over Apple.
The only reason that Intel won't make their own ARM chips now is that they would bury half of their tactical advantage, x86. They are afraid that as OSes become more and more "agnostic", and as apps stand on top of things like .NET, x86 will eventually be irrelevant once everyone coalesces around 7nm. So they are not about to go dig their own grave.
This board has a short memory.
Intel inhereted an ARM license many years ago when they purched DEC's STrongARM division, and built it's own line of ARM processors called xscale. Even when they sold xscale to Marvell a decade ago, they kept their ARM license.
I used to have one of those. A QTEK one. Indeed a lot of people forget. Intel did that back then because it was Windows Mobile and a natural continuation of the Wintel alliance (back then).
Intel is going to be manufacturing ARM based processors for other companies. Intel has no interest in developing ARM based processors. The profit margins aren't large enough.
Last quarter Qualcomm had $6.0BN revenue and $1.2BN net profit over that. The profit margins are amazing, considering the sector, and Intel also has the best fabs in the world to produce chips, unlike Qualcomm who has to beg around Samsung/TSCM to get priority over Apple.
The only reason that Intel won't make their own ARM chips now is that they would bury half of their tactical advantage, x86. They are afraid that as OSes become more and more "agnostic", and as apps stand on top of things like .NET, x86 will eventually be irrelevant once everyone coalesces around 7nm. So they are not about to go dig their own grave.
This board has a short memory.
Intel inhereted an ARM license many years ago when they purched DEC's STrongARM division, and built it's own line of ARM processors called xscale. Even when they sold xscale to Marvell a decade ago, they kept their ARM license.
I used to have one of those. A QTEK one. Indeed a lot of people forget. Intel did that back then because it was Windows Mobile and a natural continuation of the Wintel alliance (back then).
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Their x86/64 small SoCs could not cut it, so now they are switching to ARM? Too many hands in the pot already I'm afraid, didn't AMD back out of the ARM race?