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Intel reportedly reserved $ 3 billion in 2019 to competitively block AMD
Intel has been reserving 3 billion dollars aside to offer 'discounts' to its customers, and there actually is a photo to back that claim. The recent official unveiling of Cascade Lake X might already the result of that program as the CPUs are selling twice as low per core compared to the chips from Intel's previous generation.
It is Youtube channel Adored TV that explains in a video a slide what exactly Intel would be doing in order to be a stronger party than AMD, and that is injecting money to create discounts that make sure their customers buy intel processors.
It is quite an accusation based on one slide to be honest. If correct, Intel just in 2019 spend three billion US dollars in that program. The money would be used for example for price reductions. Intel names this 3B program the "2019 meet comp discount," Intel's net profit in 2018 was just over USD 21 billion alone. Next to the price reduction on the recent procs, you also need to think bigger. Such money is probably being spent lowering Xeon contract prices to large customers, which has been rumored for some time
The intended effect if the 3B reservation would include price reductions that would make AMD less profitable. According to the slide, Intel in 2019 is to provide ten times as much money for the competition - The slide is labeled " Intel's Scale Advantage ... Financial Horsepower". Even if the accusation was not made directly, if true it is Intel's using its monopoly against the competition.
A disclaimer, the authenticity of the slide cannot be guaranteed. There is currently no evidence of illegal activities nor is it certain that the slides of Adored TV are genuine, or even from Intel at all.
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Intel announced that it has contributed the Thunderbolt protocol specification to the USB Promoter Group. This will enable other chip makers to build Thunderbolt compatible silicon, royalty free. It w...
Petr V
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#5720245 Posted on: 10/14/2019 09:33 AM
Waste of money.
Waste of money.
Dimitrios1983
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#5720247 Posted on: 10/14/2019 09:45 AM
Yup I made a comment on here while back or at tech spot, gotta love their shady business ethics.
Yup I made a comment on here while back or at tech spot, gotta love their shady business ethics.
asturur
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#5720251 Posted on: 10/14/2019 10:01 AM
Well, while this is all to be confirmed, in case is abuse of dominant position can be punished.
What would make me really sad is that 3 billion spent on research would pay more to everyone.
Well, while this is all to be confirmed, in case is abuse of dominant position can be punished.
What would make me really sad is that 3 billion spent on research would pay more to everyone.
Neo Cyrus
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#5720252 Posted on: 10/14/2019 10:09 AM
Called it. I knew they'd do this shady BS again. They haven't even paid up for the last time yet, have they? And that was such a tiny fine relative to the near-apocalypse they caused in the CPU market.
Just think about it, where would we be now if AMD had lost just a little more and went under? $500 locked quad core chips that are lower in IPC than what we have now... with toothpaste between the die and heatspreader.
Edit: Wrote HSF instead of heatspreader.
Called it. I knew they'd do this shady BS again. They haven't even paid up for the last time yet, have they? And that was such a tiny fine relative to the near-apocalypse they caused in the CPU market.
Just think about it, where would we be now if AMD had lost just a little more and went under? $500 locked quad core chips that are lower in IPC than what we have now... with toothpaste between the die and heatspreader.
Edit: Wrote HSF instead of heatspreader.
Exodite
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#5720280 Posted on: 10/14/2019 11:25 AM
I mostly find it weird, even incomprehensible from my own standpoint.
Obviously this could all be made up, it's all too easy to believe Intel doing shady stuff again so there's a receptive audience for this kind of thing.
Assuming this is in some way true, though not necessarily in as bad a way as last time AMD were doing better than Intel, my question would be why? Why offer incentives rather than just lower prices to compete? Sure, I get the points about lower prices making Intel seem more "budget" - or more accurately less "premium" - and that lowered prices would affect a larger spectrum of their market. Ie. they couldn't milk consumers as much if they dropped prices rather than gave OEMs incentives.
But to me it seems obvious that the people that care about these things, meaning the enthusiasts, already know Intel's positioning and the people who don't... well, don't.
The risk just seems too high compared to a more straightforward price competition.
I'd argue that Intel's last fine were a couple of zeroes too low but regardless, if they were to be caught doing anything even remotely shady again I'd find it appropriate for the courts to break up the company and start putting people in jail rather than discussing fines.
Of course the cynic in me would consider that Intel did their due diligence in risk assessment and realized that even if they were caught it'd at worst be another slap on the wrist and piddling fine to be paid a decade later. *shrug*
Hopefully this is all made-up bs.
I mostly find it weird, even incomprehensible from my own standpoint.
Obviously this could all be made up, it's all too easy to believe Intel doing shady stuff again so there's a receptive audience for this kind of thing.
Assuming this is in some way true, though not necessarily in as bad a way as last time AMD were doing better than Intel, my question would be why? Why offer incentives rather than just lower prices to compete? Sure, I get the points about lower prices making Intel seem more "budget" - or more accurately less "premium" - and that lowered prices would affect a larger spectrum of their market. Ie. they couldn't milk consumers as much if they dropped prices rather than gave OEMs incentives.
But to me it seems obvious that the people that care about these things, meaning the enthusiasts, already know Intel's positioning and the people who don't... well, don't.
The risk just seems too high compared to a more straightforward price competition.
I'd argue that Intel's last fine were a couple of zeroes too low but regardless, if they were to be caught doing anything even remotely shady again I'd find it appropriate for the courts to break up the company and start putting people in jail rather than discussing fines.
Of course the cynic in me would consider that Intel did their due diligence in risk assessment and realized that even if they were caught it'd at worst be another slap on the wrist and piddling fine to be paid a decade later. *shrug*
Hopefully this is all made-up bs.
sneipen
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#5720290 Posted on: 10/14/2019 11:49 AM
Another case i find interresting for same utuber is how nvidia seems to manage to "steal" freesync. So freesync has been replaced with nvidias Gsync compatable.
Another case i find interresting for same utuber is how nvidia seems to manage to "steal" freesync. So freesync has been replaced with nvidias Gsync compatable.
Richard Nutman
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#5720302 Posted on: 10/14/2019 12:47 PM
They need to discount $3B just to match the performance/price ratio of AMD.
They need to discount $3B just to match the performance/price ratio of AMD.
H83
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#5720306 Posted on: 10/14/2019 12:57 PM
Maybe i´m misunderstanding this but why is this illegal??? From what i understand Intel is simply discounting their prices, something we all wanted and asked before. Shouldn´t this be read like AMD forces Intel to cut prices agressesivly to compete???
Maybe i´m misunderstanding this but why is this illegal??? From what i understand Intel is simply discounting their prices, something we all wanted and asked before. Shouldn´t this be read like AMD forces Intel to cut prices agressesivly to compete???
Athlonite
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#5720311 Posted on: 10/14/2019 01:20 PM
The last time intel did this they literally paid OEM's billions in incentives to snub AMD CPU's causing AMD alot of financial woe and it looks like they're going to try something similar again either by directly asking OEM's to snub AMD CPU's or by offering a cash back type purchase agreement ie: OEM pays full price for the intel CPU and Intel give them a considerable cash back check for using their CPU's instead of AMD's... So basically amounts to the same thing as before and like they care if they get a fine of a few hundred million dollars that's chump change to them in the long run
Maybe i´m misunderstanding this but why is this illegal??? From what i understand Intel is simply discounting their prices, something we all wanted and asked before. Shouldn't this be read like AMD forces Intel to cut prices agressesivly to compete???
The last time intel did this they literally paid OEM's billions in incentives to snub AMD CPU's causing AMD alot of financial woe and it looks like they're going to try something similar again either by directly asking OEM's to snub AMD CPU's or by offering a cash back type purchase agreement ie: OEM pays full price for the intel CPU and Intel give them a considerable cash back check for using their CPU's instead of AMD's... So basically amounts to the same thing as before and like they care if they get a fine of a few hundred million dollars that's chump change to them in the long run
Cyberdyne
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#5720315 Posted on: 10/14/2019 01:36 PM
It's not illegal. Why would it be? You guys are overreacting.
It's simple competition. If your competition makes a better product for the price, you either need to make a better product or lower your price. Their products are very similar at this point, so you lower the price.
Intel (allegedly) is willing to toss out 3 Billion dollars worth of profit to make it happen. Makes sense considering making and selling CPU's is what they do.
Honestly the robbery is their old prices, the new HEDT CPU prices actually make sense now.
It's not illegal. Why would it be? You guys are overreacting.
It's simple competition. If your competition makes a better product for the price, you either need to make a better product or lower your price. Their products are very similar at this point, so you lower the price.
Intel (allegedly) is willing to toss out 3 Billion dollars worth of profit to make it happen. Makes sense considering making and selling CPU's is what they do.
Honestly the robbery is their old prices, the new HEDT CPU prices actually make sense now.
Exodite
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#5720318 Posted on: 10/14/2019 01:53 PM
The implications from this rumor are that Intel are doing neither of those things though, hence the discussion.
If Intel are actually lowering their prices to the tune of an estimated ~$3B then great, that's a start and actually meaningful competition.
What's implied here is that they're not lowering prices but rather offering other financial incentives to stay on top, not unlike - but not necessarily exactly like - the last time they "incentivized" big OEMs from buying AMD product.
If that implication is correct, which is what we're discussing, then that's not in any way competition and decidedly not ok.
It's simple competition. If your competition makes a better product for the price, you either need to make a better product or lower your price.
The implications from this rumor are that Intel are doing neither of those things though, hence the discussion.
If Intel are actually lowering their prices to the tune of an estimated ~$3B then great, that's a start and actually meaningful competition.
What's implied here is that they're not lowering prices but rather offering other financial incentives to stay on top, not unlike - but not necessarily exactly like - the last time they "incentivized" big OEMs from buying AMD product.
If that implication is correct, which is what we're discussing, then that's not in any way competition and decidedly not ok.
anticupidon
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#5720319 Posted on: 10/14/2019 01:56 PM
After the last 2 years of vulnerability issues, milking the last architecture to complete dryness, rushed CPUs and requiring new motherboards and use of low quality thermal compound what is the reason of buying Intel?
I know, they will " fight" AMD in order to offer more value to the customers.
This is a circus, Intel. The one where Goliath farts and tries desperately to say it is David's fault for the foul smell.
Go home Intel before you lose the last drop of professionalism which you had in the computer business environment.
After the last 2 years of vulnerability issues, milking the last architecture to complete dryness, rushed CPUs and requiring new motherboards and use of low quality thermal compound what is the reason of buying Intel?
I know, they will " fight" AMD in order to offer more value to the customers.
This is a circus, Intel. The one where Goliath farts and tries desperately to say it is David's fault for the foul smell.
Go home Intel before you lose the last drop of professionalism which you had in the computer business environment.
kings
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#5720321 Posted on: 10/14/2019 01:57 PM
Since when is cashback illegal? Not only is it not illegal, as it happens every day in various brands.
For example, when I bought my OLED TV from LG, I had a cashback, It's a promotion like any other.
People are confusing the act of paying/bribing not to use a particular brand and offer a discount/cashback. One thing has nothing to do with the other.
The last time intel did this they literally paid OEM's billions in incentives to snub AMD CPU's causing AMD alot of financial woe and it looks like they're going to try something similar again either by directly asking OEM's to snub AMD CPU's or by offering a cash back type purchase agreement ie: OEM pays full price for the intel CPU and Intel give them a considerable cash back check for using their CPU's instead of AMD's... So basically amounts to the same thing as before and like they care if they get a fine of a few hundred million dollars that's chump change to them in the long run
Since when is cashback illegal? Not only is it not illegal, as it happens every day in various brands.
For example, when I bought my OLED TV from LG, I had a cashback, It's a promotion like any other.
People are confusing the act of paying/bribing not to use a particular brand and offer a discount/cashback. One thing has nothing to do with the other.
Cyberdyne
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#5720328 Posted on: 10/14/2019 02:25 PM
The implications from this rumor are that Intel are doing neither of those things though, hence the discussion.
If Intel are actually lowering their prices to the tune of an estimated ~$3B then great, that's a start and actually meaningful competition.
What's implied here is that they're not lowering prices but rather offering other financial incentives to stay on top, not unlike - but not necessarily exactly like - the last time they "incentivized" big OEMs from buying AMD product.
If that implication is correct, which is what we're discussing, then that's not in any way competition and decidedly not ok.
Then it would be cheaper for OEMs. That changes nothing.
The implications from this rumor are that Intel are doing neither of those things though, hence the discussion.
If Intel are actually lowering their prices to the tune of an estimated ~$3B then great, that's a start and actually meaningful competition.
What's implied here is that they're not lowering prices but rather offering other financial incentives to stay on top, not unlike - but not necessarily exactly like - the last time they "incentivized" big OEMs from buying AMD product.
If that implication is correct, which is what we're discussing, then that's not in any way competition and decidedly not ok.
Then it would be cheaper for OEMs. That changes nothing.
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Never happened before, and there it is again!