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Intel Kaby Lake and AMD Zen processors to only support Windows 10 and Unix
News hits the web on multiple websites today that it seems likely that both AMD ZEN and Intel's Kaby lake processors are to only support Windows 10 and Unix compatible operating systems. That would be bad news for the guys still on Windows 7 looking forward to an upgrade.
The news hits the web today through PC Gamer. Microsoft already announced this news earlier this year, but we didn't know about ZEN on this one. It makes sense though but yes, Microsoft is planning to only support the new processors on Windows 10 (so this is not an AMD or Intel thing). Basically Microsoft will not support the new processors on older operating systems. While I do believe the standard instruction sets should be supported, the niche multi-media functions etc thus should not be. So it remains to be seen how compatible these processors are going to be.
"Windows 10 will be the only supported Windows platform on Intel's upcoming 'Kaby Lake' silicon, Qualcomm's upcoming '8996' silicon, and AMD's upcoming 'Bristol Ridge' silicon," Microsoft stated in a blog post earlier this year.
"As new silicon generations are introduced, they will require the latest Windows platform at that time for support,” a Microsoft spokeswoman stated. "This enables us to focus on deep integration between Windows and the silicon, while maintaining maximum reliability and compatibility with previous generations of platform and silicon."
So, what happens if you install a Kaby Lake processor in a desktop PC running Windows 7? Good question—nobody knows outside of Microsoft and Intel, and until the CPUs are out in the wild, no one will have the opportunity to try it out. One unnamed source told PCWorld that without support and security updates, his guess is that the experience would be "a bit glitchy." Another surmised that certain apps trying to use features built into the chips could crash. Even if you can get the OS installed, it would likely be a sub-optimal experience at best.
There's not a whole lot Intel and AMD are saying about this. Both chipmakers provided canned responses when asked for thoughts on the subject, with Intel confirming it has no plans on updating Windows 7 and Windows 8/8.1 drivers for Kaby Lake "per Microsoft's support policy change."
Obviously everything not Microsoft will support the processors like *nix distributions such as ChromeOS, SteamOS, and OS X.
AndyMutz
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#5329754 Posted on: 09/02/2016 01:21 PM
that just shows how much MS values its customers.. after all, windows 8.1 is still in mainstream support until january 2018.
-andy-
that just shows how much MS values its customers.. after all, windows 8.1 is still in mainstream support until january 2018.
-andy-
Reqruiz
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#5329769 Posted on: 09/02/2016 01:50 PM
I see one big reason - many of old games doesn't work under Windows 10. Why should I abandon this games because Microsoft can't handle backward compatibility?
Even if I move on to Windows 10 for DX12 games I would leave partition with Win7 installed.
I see no reasons to use Windows 7.
I see one big reason - many of old games doesn't work under Windows 10. Why should I abandon this games because Microsoft can't handle backward compatibility?
Even if I move on to Windows 10 for DX12 games I would leave partition with Win7 installed.
Ryu5uzaku
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#5329778 Posted on: 09/02/2016 01:58 PM
I see one big reason - many of old games doesn't work under Windows 10. Why should I abandon this games because Microsoft can't handle backward compatibility?
Even if I move on to Windows 10 for DX12 games I would leave partition with Win7 installed.
Which of the all old games do not work. Btw you could always have a virtual machine for the said old games also. I know some of the cd games simply refuse to work. I had some that thought windows 10 is simply too old because they were programmed with specific windows in mind.
I see one big reason - many of old games doesn't work under Windows 10. Why should I abandon this games because Microsoft can't handle backward compatibility?
Even if I move on to Windows 10 for DX12 games I would leave partition with Win7 installed.
Which of the all old games do not work. Btw you could always have a virtual machine for the said old games also. I know some of the cd games simply refuse to work. I had some that thought windows 10 is simply too old because they were programmed with specific windows in mind.
deusex
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#5329787 Posted on: 09/02/2016 02:06 PM
It looks to me like MS is trying to copy Apple in business practices which isn't really a good thing. supposedly Google is working on a new operating system . really hope it is true .
It looks to me like MS is trying to copy Apple in business practices which isn't really a good thing. supposedly Google is working on a new operating system . really hope it is true .
mmicrosysm2
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#5329809 Posted on: 09/02/2016 02:39 PM
They still will support Linux so M$ can eat crow!
They still will support Linux so M$ can eat crow!
Redemption80
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#5329810 Posted on: 09/02/2016 02:40 PM
How did you come to that conclusion when it works on non MS operating systems.
It looks to me like MS is trying to copy Apple in business practices which isn't really a good thing. supposedly Google is working on a new operating system . really hope it is true .
How did you come to that conclusion when it works on non MS operating systems.
schmidtbag
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#5329828 Posted on: 09/02/2016 03:12 PM
Uh... why, exactly? If you're on a PC still using Windows 7 that isn't using a CPU older than Core2, what's stopping you from upgrading that PC to Windows 10, grabbing the serial key, and then installing Windows 10 directly on a new PC? Sure, it's an inconvenience. But if you intend to run Windows 10 on a brand new PC but you're starting off upgrading from Windows 7, you're already off to a messy start.
Also just to point out, Linux != Unix. Linux is Unix-like. That being said, to my knowledge, there is currently Linux support for Kaby Lake and Zen, but I'm not sure what the current state is for OSes like the BSDs or AIX. To my knowledge, FreeBSD is currently working on supporting Kaby Lake and I haven't found any evidence that it supports Zen at all.
As stated by other people in this forum, I'm sure these processors will still work on older OSes, but in terms of official support by participating companies, that can only be said by Windows 10 and Linux (and probably Mac).
That would be bad news for the guys still on Windows 7 looking forward to an upgrade.
Uh... why, exactly? If you're on a PC still using Windows 7 that isn't using a CPU older than Core2, what's stopping you from upgrading that PC to Windows 10, grabbing the serial key, and then installing Windows 10 directly on a new PC? Sure, it's an inconvenience. But if you intend to run Windows 10 on a brand new PC but you're starting off upgrading from Windows 7, you're already off to a messy start.
Also just to point out, Linux != Unix. Linux is Unix-like. That being said, to my knowledge, there is currently Linux support for Kaby Lake and Zen, but I'm not sure what the current state is for OSes like the BSDs or AIX. To my knowledge, FreeBSD is currently working on supporting Kaby Lake and I haven't found any evidence that it supports Zen at all.
As stated by other people in this forum, I'm sure these processors will still work on older OSes, but in terms of official support by participating companies, that can only be said by Windows 10 and Linux (and probably Mac).
PrMinisterGR
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#5329831 Posted on: 09/02/2016 03:17 PM
Just in case a lot of people didn't get it, Microsoft and the Linux kernel maintainers have decided that they will not backport support for Kaby Lake and Zen to previous kernels.
That's it, and it's the correct decision technically. AMD and Intel have no real say in this. SteamOS uses the Linux kernel, so the same rules apply. Basically, whatever OS you're using, you have to make sure you have the latest version for it to properly support the latest hardware. Despite popular belief, CPUs require drivers to perform and function properly. These drivers need to be written and maintained and since Microsoft has moved into a rolling release model (like the Linux kernel has since the beginning), there is no backporting.
Just in case a lot of people didn't get it, Microsoft and the Linux kernel maintainers have decided that they will not backport support for Kaby Lake and Zen to previous kernels.
That's it, and it's the correct decision technically. AMD and Intel have no real say in this. SteamOS uses the Linux kernel, so the same rules apply. Basically, whatever OS you're using, you have to make sure you have the latest version for it to properly support the latest hardware. Despite popular belief, CPUs require drivers to perform and function properly. These drivers need to be written and maintained and since Microsoft has moved into a rolling release model (like the Linux kernel has since the beginning), there is no backporting.
fontana
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#5329845 Posted on: 09/02/2016 03:35 PM
This wouldn't bother me at all if Microtard hadn't "accidentally" limited dx9 vram to 4GB in W10.
This wouldn't bother me at all if Microtard hadn't "accidentally" limited dx9 vram to 4GB in W10.
PrMinisterGR
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#5329860 Posted on: 09/02/2016 04:11 PM
This wouldn't bother me at all if Microtard hadn't "accidentally" limited dx9 vram to 4GB in W10.
It's not a Windows 10 issue. It also happens in Windows 7 and 8.1. It's a combination of driver/dx9. The author of ENB explains it at the NVIDIA forums.
Hello
I've got some statistics from users which shows that a lot of them have 4Gb video memory limit for DirectX9 applications (dx11 is okay), even Titan videocards. Can't find dependency why this happen, same OS (win7, win8, win10), almost same videocards and drivers, but part of them have 4Gb, others proper amount equal or bigger than physical VRAM size. Problem actually consist from two parts, first is limitation of real VRAM and second is available fake VRAM, which is summ of physical VRAM and some amount of RAM which driver can allocate and use (in old terms these are local and non-local VRAMs). Fix of the problem is very simple and do not require much effort from driver developers.
Games which use own streaming of textures and vertices (instead of managed by d3d) will run much smoother and faster, first of all these games are Fallout and Skyrim heavily modded with streaming made by me.
PS: please, no silly things about 32 bit limit here, amount of available video memory can be tested by my VRamSizeTest, it allocates RTs till fail creating new one.
PS: Words like Microtard and Crapple have stopped making people sound cool since the mid 90s.
This wouldn't bother me at all if Microtard hadn't "accidentally" limited dx9 vram to 4GB in W10.
It's not a Windows 10 issue. It also happens in Windows 7 and 8.1. It's a combination of driver/dx9. The author of ENB explains it at the NVIDIA forums.
Hello
I've got some statistics from users which shows that a lot of them have 4Gb video memory limit for DirectX9 applications (dx11 is okay), even Titan videocards. Can't find dependency why this happen, same OS (win7, win8, win10), almost same videocards and drivers, but part of them have 4Gb, others proper amount equal or bigger than physical VRAM size. Problem actually consist from two parts, first is limitation of real VRAM and second is available fake VRAM, which is summ of physical VRAM and some amount of RAM which driver can allocate and use (in old terms these are local and non-local VRAMs). Fix of the problem is very simple and do not require much effort from driver developers.
Games which use own streaming of textures and vertices (instead of managed by d3d) will run much smoother and faster, first of all these games are Fallout and Skyrim heavily modded with streaming made by me.
PS: please, no silly things about 32 bit limit here, amount of available video memory can be tested by my VRamSizeTest, it allocates RTs till fail creating new one.
PS: Words like Microtard and Crapple have stopped making people sound cool since the mid 90s.
Margalus
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#5329876 Posted on: 09/02/2016 04:38 PM
I see one big reason - many of old games doesn't work under Windows 10. Why should I abandon this games because Microsoft can't handle backward compatibility?
Even if I move on to Windows 10 for DX12 games I would leave partition with Win7 installed.
What old games? I have yet to find a single game that doesn't run fine on Win 10. I can even still play old DOS games on Win 10.
I see one big reason - many of old games doesn't work under Windows 10. Why should I abandon this games because Microsoft can't handle backward compatibility?
Even if I move on to Windows 10 for DX12 games I would leave partition with Win7 installed.
What old games? I have yet to find a single game that doesn't run fine on Win 10. I can even still play old DOS games on Win 10.
schmidtbag
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#5329880 Posted on: 09/02/2016 04:47 PM
I suspect both of you are wrong for different reasons. There are many DOS games that can't natively play in Windows 10, either because there is no 16-bit emulation or the games will have unplayably fast frame rates. There's a reason DOS Box exists for Windows.
Another thing to consider is compatibility mode. To my recollection, not all versions of Windows support this. In my experience, there has been software (games or otherwise) that don't install or don't play properly without compatibility mode, though it is rare.
What old games? I have yet to find a single game that doesn't run fine on Win 10. I can even still play old DOS games on Win 10.
I suspect both of you are wrong for different reasons. There are many DOS games that can't natively play in Windows 10, either because there is no 16-bit emulation or the games will have unplayably fast frame rates. There's a reason DOS Box exists for Windows.
Another thing to consider is compatibility mode. To my recollection, not all versions of Windows support this. In my experience, there has been software (games or otherwise) that don't install or don't play properly without compatibility mode, though it is rare.
PrMinisterGR
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#5329881 Posted on: 09/02/2016 04:47 PM
Infinity engine games run better for me under 10. I still don't know why, I think that they might have integrated parts of the old compatibility toolkit directly in Windows.
What old games? I have yet to find a single game that doesn't run fine on Win 10. I can even still play old DOS games on Win 10.
Infinity engine games run better for me under 10. I still don't know why, I think that they might have integrated parts of the old compatibility toolkit directly in Windows.
TieSKey
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#5329883 Posted on: 09/02/2016 04:56 PM
I find it hilarious how some of u trust your lives to 20++ years old planes but think a 7 years old OS is ancient stuff...
AFAIK there's been no game changing break through in kernel design nor hardware paradigm in the last decade. Any OS of that age can be properly maintained for a long time, it's just a marketing decision, not a technical problem.
It's true that by itself is not a big deal unless u hate win 10 (I do), but in the context of all bs decisions MS has taken in the last years, overreactions are more than justified....
I find it hilarious how some of u trust your lives to 20++ years old planes but think a 7 years old OS is ancient stuff...
AFAIK there's been no game changing break through in kernel design nor hardware paradigm in the last decade. Any OS of that age can be properly maintained for a long time, it's just a marketing decision, not a technical problem.
It's true that by itself is not a big deal unless u hate win 10 (I do), but in the context of all bs decisions MS has taken in the last years, overreactions are more than justified....
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What does MS not supporting new CPU's on old Windows OS's have to do with steam OS?