Canadian etailer publishes Intel 8th Gen Desktop CPU prices

#5464897 Posted on: 08/21/2017 11:15 PM

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You couldn't use AM3+ CPUs on AM3 sockets, you couldn't use AM3 CPUs on AM2+ sockets, you couldn't use AM2+ CPUs on AM2 sockets etc. It's all the same.

TR4 will probably stay there for a bit. But Zen+ will most likely won't work in AM4 sockets.

#5464903 Posted on: 08/21/2017 11:44 PM

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Intel keep changing chipset/socket as they make an utter fortune on selling now basically empty south bridges - for every CPU they sell, they also sell a south bridge. Not just been gouging on the CPUs and £200 i3s, they love to doubledip their ever so loyal fans.

AM3+ was supported for a long time, but only because nobody in their right mind would have bought another mobo for Piledriver after being ripped off with the shitty move AMD pulled with Bulldozer - getting the motherboards out the door before people realised just how bad BD was and eBay getting flooded with them as people changed platforms, heh.

With the r7 1700 about, hard to consider anything else.

#5464904 Posted on: 08/21/2017 11:45 PM

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Nice to see that many of you are putting into the dark the intel cpu's and at the same time manifesting the indifference for the Ryzen bug which does affect the gcc compilator and as it seems few others compilators as well.
Probably many of you do spend their time on a Windows machine by playing games, surfing and launching synthetic benchmarks but the reality is that no company within the big two is the best choice right now.
Intel made itself an auto goal with the last coffe lake decision to do not support x270 series motherboards and AMD repeated itself once again by the history - during all the time prior to the Ryzen release no one has it tested on a Linux machine as it had to be done!
Once again AMD is completely snobbing the Linux system and is doing it the best way it can, this should be enough to leave the Ryzen processors and the Vega gpus where they should be, on the shelve.
Many of you are running to buy AMD products by paying probably no much attention on the fact that the AMD company is not an angelic one and that it it is not better then Intel.
Intel on its counterpart does test their cpu's on the Linux and Unix like systems...want to see how many Apple pc's and notebook's will be released in the next future based on the Ryzen arch? Want to see how many Linux servers will be equipped with the Ryzens? Probably zero.
AMD was smart enought for having addressed the Ryzen bug by the arrival of the Threadripper's.
So from the AMD point of view it seems that Ryzens are made for playing and toying while the Threadrippers are for scholars and engineers.
And to say the last, Intel did always retired their faulty cpu's at their own cost...AMD is not doing the same with their awesome Ryzen's.

Why does Linux support matter to people running Windows? Ryzen was intended for a market where the vast majority of users are on Windows. The likelihood of Apple dumping Intel for AMD is incredibly low.

Ryzen R3, R5 and R7 were not intended for servers. AMD released EPYC to target that market.

Personally, I couldn't care less about Linux support on my desktop. Linux doesn't require that much processing power anyway. Even on an old i3 380M, it's just as responsive as Windows is on my Ryzen R5 1600 based desktop. There are servers in the works running EPYC CPUs though, since that's AMD's server processor. There are also workstations being built around Threadripper.

#5464915 Posted on: 08/22/2017 12:34 AM

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zen+ is on AM4. in the time it took you to type that, you should have looked it up instead.

#5464921 Posted on: 08/22/2017 01:05 AM

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Zen+ is nowhere near. And won't be here for at least a year.

#5464924 Posted on: 08/22/2017 01:25 AM

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Am i crazy, or is there no "first post" with the news and link on this forum?

#5464932 Posted on: 08/22/2017 01:56 AM

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That is partially incorrect.
You couldn't use AM3/AM3 + on any of the AM2 sockets because those were DDR3-based (notice the "3" in the name), while AM2/+ was DDR2

However AM3+ CPU worked just fine in AM3 (if vendor had bios support), or AM2+ worked just fine in AM2 ( but a tad slower, or in case of AM2, at less PCI-e speed )

~~

The only REAL reason to change the socket is when the memory technology changes ( DDR4 has different signaling than DDR3 and due to all those minute differences in timing of each memory bit etc etc... new socket is 99.9% required )

However, in this case... it is EXACTLY the same memory, same PCI-e, same DMI, same everything.

Last year when I bought a pretty expensive Sk 2011v3 motherboard I was convinced it would last another generation, because there was no news on the horizon of DDR5 or new PCI-e (and still isn't)
Yet, they made the shitty SK20xx whatever I don't even care anymore on X299 and Skylake X not compatible, while it uses EXACTLY the same tech as Haswell-E or Broadwell-E.

Thanks Intel for pushing me to AMD !
Threadripper, here I come !

#5464936 Posted on: 08/22/2017 02:15 AM

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You couldn't use AM3+ CPUs on AM3 sockets.

Not correct, though there were no guarantee, as it was up to the motherboard manufacturer to provide a BIOS update (though this can be argued about many motherboards in general, as there have been countless times when a new CPU comes out that a bios does not recognize, even if it was the same socket and everything, it would not work, unless a BIOS update happened, and often that never happened). That being said, if there were features on the AM3+ motherboard that you wanted, you could use an AM3 CPU on an AM3+ motherboard guaranteed.

you couldn't use AM3 CPUs on AM2+ sockets


Uh, duh? DDR2 to DDR3, it's the most important and valid reason for there to be an incapability.

you couldn't use AM2+ CPUs on AM2 sockets etc.

Again, not correct, and i quote "AMD confirmed that AM2 processors will work on AM2+ motherboards and AM2+ processors will work on AM2 motherboards. However, the operation of AM2+ processors on AM2 motherboards will be limited to the specifications of Socket AM2 (1 GHz HyperTransport 2.0, and one power plane for both cores and the IMC). AM2 processors do not benefit from the faster HyperTransport 3.0 and separate power planes on AM2+ motherboards."

It's all the same.


Well, no, it's not all the same as has been shown to you. If you believe facts or not is a different story. That being said, you talked about CPU sockets that spanned from 2006 to 2011 (2017 if you want to consider there wasn't a change from AM3+ till 2017)

In that 5 year time frame, there were 2 socket changes that made things completely incompatible, due to DDR2 and DDR3.

In that 5 year time frame, there were a total of 4 "technical" socket changes, with varying compatibilities with themselves, AKA with two AM2 and AM2+ being completely compatible with a BIOS update, and AM3 to AM3+ also being completely compatible with a bios update, and the only one, for sure, definitely not being compatible, was AM2/+ to AM3/+, due to the obvious reason: DDR2 to DDR3

Whereas with intel, in the last 5 years, there have been 6-7 "technical" socket changes(not counting the HEDT systems), with varying compatibilities with themselves, but mostly required you to change motherboards for a new CPU, and many times newer motherboards were not compatible with a one generation old CPU. It also had 3 physical CPU socket changes. And the only one real reason for a socket change during this time? DDR3 to DDR4.

#5464941 Posted on: 08/22/2017 02:22 AM

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That is partially incorrect.
You couldn't use AM3/AM3 + on any of the AM2 sockets because those were DDR3-based (notice the "3" in the name), while AM2/+ was DDR2

However AM3+ CPU worked just fine in AM3 (if vendor had bios support), or AM2+ worked just fine in AM2 ( but a tad slower, or in case of AM2, at less PCI-e speed )


Old AM3 CPUs did work on AM3+ sockets, but not otherwise. Different pinout.

#5464949 Posted on: 08/22/2017 02:45 AM

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The socket itself was 942 pins, yes, and AM3 had 941, so you'd assume, correctly, that a CPU with 942 pins (am3+ CPU) would not work (fit) inside an AM3 socket. Except, you're forgetting that the amount of pins a socket has, does not denote how many the CPU have

AM3 socket = 941
AM3 CPU = 938
AM3+ socket = 942
AM3+ CPU = 940

And i quote:

"Some manufacturers have brought AM3+ support to some of their AM3 motherboards via a simple BIOS upgrade. Mechanical compatibility has been confirmed and it is possible for AM3+ CPUs to fit in AM3 boards, provided they can supply enough peak current. Another issue is the use of the sideband temperature sensor interface for reading the temperature from the CPU. Therefore, some CPU PWM fan headers may only run at full speed. Also, certain power-saving features may not work, due to lack of support for rapid VCore switching."

#5464972 Posted on: 08/22/2017 04:04 AM

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Funny the last time I adopted a an upgradeable chipset mindset...
( after my old dual socketed intel BX boards that could take anything )
I actually bet on AMD with socket 939 and got but hurt pretty quickly!

But I have been praying that they force some innovation via a new chipset design with coffee lake!
And after the 7740x lane nerf...
I am hoping that flak from as much is enough of a mandate for a respectful Intel to cater the coffee lake core count increase with a lane count increase to compliment the excitement/energy of such additions! ( enthusiasm for enthusiasts )

I am not holding my breath but a 6 core 12 thread coffee lake with around 30 lanes empowered/"forced" by a new chipset is all I need to salvage my sadly scar'd Intel love and adopt such a core/lane increase combination as my own "personal hedt" solution!
( finally replacing my aging 6 core i7-980x socket 1366/X58 solution that I have been refusing to upgrade during 7 years of "OBVIOUS" increment. )

It could happen?
( let me have my illusions dammit! )
Where if forcing a new chipset for coffee lakes equates to real value and technical advantage/advancement...
Who am I to then "nay say" till the actual writing on the wall is revealed?

#5464983 Posted on: 08/22/2017 04:51 AM

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uhhhhhhhhhh yes thats true. why are you saying that as if it conflicts with my previous statement?

#5465024 Posted on: 08/22/2017 07:48 AM

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My question is also about backward compatibility, but from the other point of view: will the new Z370 & Z390 motherboards support the current Skylake and Kaby Lake series?

#5465064 Posted on: 08/22/2017 10:06 AM

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I dont understand all the complaints about Chipset compatibility, it feels like most of you are just AMD fanboys making noise and string anti-Intel sentiment.

I find your understanding lacking. My last three PCs have been Intel based (I wonder what kind of an AMD fanboy that makes me). I was happy with the first two, but I'm disgusted with this current one, which is basically the same as the previous despite two whole CPU generations between them. Amazing 10% more power with exactly the same amount of cores. Not even the fricking HT was added.

Here's a fact just for you: You can dislike Intel's decisions during the last half a dozen years without being a blind AMD fanboy.

If you been using Intel CPU in the last 10 years you should know that Intel has One chipset per TWO CPU generation Plus chipset refresh with more features in the second year for the mainstream and one chipset per 2 CPU generations for the HEDT


I'm sure that marvelous piece of information is of super hyper uber ultra huge consolation to those of us who bought new mobos last year or this very same year (Kaby Lake).

#5465074 Posted on: 08/22/2017 10:18 AM

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Is there any word yet of actual date of availability....?
Announcing the new toys is alright but when will it be available to actually buy...?