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AMD: ZEN3 architecture finished – expects 15% faster IPC
AMD’s earlier this week hosted a presentation at the SC19 conference, an International Conference for High-Performance Computing, Networking, Storage, and Analysis. AMD made some interesting remarks about ZEN3 and Epyc in regards to development as well as IPC increases.
First off, AMD mentions the ZEN3 architecture design phase has been finished. Nowadays you can look at AMDs design and release phases as the traditional tick-tock release schedule. Here you may expect an iterated update of ZEN2. That’s said, ZEN3 should be seen as a new architecture is mentioned, which is interesting. We know that ZEN3 is a 7nm+ based product based on the below roadmap slide that was shared a while ago.
Zen1 compared to Zen2 brought a clock-for clock IPC increase of 21%, AMD says it careful, but hints at yet another 15% IPC increase for ZEN3, that’s again clock for clock and not counting faster clock frequencies. The necessity of more cores has not ended, and the future design path will be based on more cores and a greater compute density as well as a focus on memory bandwidth and I/O connectivity.
AMD qualified the remarks by pointing out that Zen 2 delivered a bigger IPC gain than what's normal for an evolutionary upgrade - AMD has said it's about 15% on average - since it implemented some ideas that AMD originally had for Zen but had to leave on the cutting board. However, he also asserted that Zen 3 will deliver performance gains "right in line with what you would expect from an entirely new architecture."
Despite earlier rumors, AMD also confirmed that ZEN3 and Epyc CPUs will not use a maximum of four threads per core, so you can 'bin' that idea. On the Epyc side, there was news as well, Amazon will be deploying Epyc 2 technology for their server farms and thus web services servers, which is huge for AMD of course. 64-core Rome processors will also be used in Microsoft's Azure service.
insp1re2600
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Joined: 2018-01-03
Senior Member
Posts: 1105
Joined: 2018-01-03
#5734686 Posted on: 11/25/2019 12:48 AM
Rubbish, my brothers 2700X and my friends can't do anything over 2900 cant run XMP 3200 so they have to lower the speed manually with 32GB of ram.
I know there are some that can do it but MOST can not. Some 1JZ can hit 600Hp and only a few maybe can hit 800hp but MOST do not. The claim that if mine can do most can doesn't stand up to the complaints.
Must be you bro, fiancée's 2700x is running 3466 c16 just fine
Rubbish, my brothers 2700X and my friends can't do anything over 2900 cant run XMP 3200 so they have to lower the speed manually with 32GB of ram.
I know there are some that can do it but MOST can not. Some 1JZ can hit 600Hp and only a few maybe can hit 800hp but MOST do not. The claim that if mine can do most can doesn't stand up to the complaints.
Must be you bro, fiancée's 2700x is running 3466 c16 just fine
Aura89
Senior Member
Posts: 7748
Joined: 2008-07-31
Senior Member
Posts: 7748
Joined: 2008-07-31
#5734688 Posted on: 11/25/2019 12:58 AM
Rubbish, my brothers 2700X and my friends can't do anything over 2900 cant run XMP 3200 so they have to lower the speed manually with 32GB of ram.
I know there are some that can do it but MOST can not. Some 1JZ can hit 600Hp and only a few maybe can hit 800hp but MOST do not. The claim that if mine can do most can doesn't stand up to the complaints.
I'm sorry that your brothers setup has an issue, but its his issue, not ryzen.
Either he hasn't fully updated his BIOS to the latest for his CPU(Doesn't need to update for support of 3000 series for instance) or is because he is using XMP rather then manually setting the settings to exactly what the RAM is stated to run at or has faulty components or is because he's using 32GB of ram which is probably using 4 slots.
And now you're saying something about horsepower which has nothing to do with this conversation, but i'm just going to put this out there, you did not state that "not everyone can run beyond 2900Mhz", that i'd believe, there's a lot of factors that may make that not possible, such as quality of CPU, quality of motherboard, specific motherboard chosen, quality of ram, specific ram chosen, how much ram you have, how many DIMM slots you're taking up, etc.
So yeah, i'd agree, it's likely that not EVERYONE is able to hit 3200Mhz+, but THAT's the exception with updated BIOS's, not the other way around as you stated here:
That's and exception not the rule mate.Very few ryzen plus go over 2900memory stable.
And that, very specifically that, is where you are wrong in all counts. Very few Ryzens are incapable of going over 2900Mhz stable. This is fact, if you want to try to state otherwise, thats your own choice, but it's not correct.
You'd have been right with that statement if this was back in 2017 within the first 3-5 months that ryzen had been released, but we're not there now, it's 2019, there have been a ton of updates to the BIOS's, and the issues of not being able to hit 3200mhz are the exception now, not the rule.
Rubbish, my brothers 2700X and my friends can't do anything over 2900 cant run XMP 3200 so they have to lower the speed manually with 32GB of ram.
I know there are some that can do it but MOST can not. Some 1JZ can hit 600Hp and only a few maybe can hit 800hp but MOST do not. The claim that if mine can do most can doesn't stand up to the complaints.
I'm sorry that your brothers setup has an issue, but its his issue, not ryzen.
Either he hasn't fully updated his BIOS to the latest for his CPU(Doesn't need to update for support of 3000 series for instance) or is because he is using XMP rather then manually setting the settings to exactly what the RAM is stated to run at or has faulty components or is because he's using 32GB of ram which is probably using 4 slots.
And now you're saying something about horsepower which has nothing to do with this conversation, but i'm just going to put this out there, you did not state that "not everyone can run beyond 2900Mhz", that i'd believe, there's a lot of factors that may make that not possible, such as quality of CPU, quality of motherboard, specific motherboard chosen, quality of ram, specific ram chosen, how much ram you have, how many DIMM slots you're taking up, etc.
So yeah, i'd agree, it's likely that not EVERYONE is able to hit 3200Mhz+, but THAT's the exception with updated BIOS's, not the other way around as you stated here:
That's and exception not the rule mate.Very few ryzen plus go over 2900memory stable.
And that, very specifically that, is where you are wrong in all counts. Very few Ryzens are incapable of going over 2900Mhz stable. This is fact, if you want to try to state otherwise, thats your own choice, but it's not correct.
You'd have been right with that statement if this was back in 2017 within the first 3-5 months that ryzen had been released, but we're not there now, it's 2019, there have been a ton of updates to the BIOS's, and the issues of not being able to hit 3200mhz are the exception now, not the rule.
kanenas
Member
Posts: 39
Joined: 2019-07-07
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Posts: 39
Joined: 2019-07-07
#5734693 Posted on: 11/25/2019 01:45 AM
Rubbish, my brothers 2700X and my friends can't do anything over 2900 cant run XMP 3200 so they have to lower the speed manually with 32GB of ram.
I know there are some that can do it but MOST can not. Some 1JZ can hit 600Hp and only a few maybe can hit 800hp but MOST do not. The claim that if mine can do most can doesn't stand up to the complaints.
I can go even 3733(tridentz 3600 silver-red) with loose timings
and that is the maximum for the memory controler(2700x).
Rubbish, my brothers 2700X and my friends can't do anything over 2900 cant run XMP 3200 so they have to lower the speed manually with 32GB of ram.
I know there are some that can do it but MOST can not. Some 1JZ can hit 600Hp and only a few maybe can hit 800hp but MOST do not. The claim that if mine can do most can doesn't stand up to the complaints.
I can go even 3733(tridentz 3600 silver-red) with loose timings
and that is the maximum for the memory controler(2700x).
Neo Cyrus
Senior Member
Posts: 9263
Joined: 2006-02-14
Senior Member
Posts: 9263
Joined: 2006-02-14
#5734697 Posted on: 11/25/2019 02:35 AM
I might as well also say my Ryzen 2700 was definitely not capped to 2900MHz RAM speed either. It had no issues running 3600MHz XMP2 profiles, and with the set I ended up using, I used 3500MHz with much tighter timings than most 3600 kits. 2900MHz is an anomaly and something was obviously wrong.
As for this topic... at this point I'm starting to worry a bit that prices will be too high if Intel can't beat AMD until 2022 or later. But 15% is good stuff, if they keep pumping out IPC improvements like that without security issues slowing it down later with patches, having a low frequency might not matter for long in single threaded tasks if Intel has nothing to answer with.
Still butthurt that the advertised turbo speeds were effectively lies by marketing department.
I might as well also say my Ryzen 2700 was definitely not capped to 2900MHz RAM speed either. It had no issues running 3600MHz XMP2 profiles, and with the set I ended up using, I used 3500MHz with much tighter timings than most 3600 kits. 2900MHz is an anomaly and something was obviously wrong.
As for this topic... at this point I'm starting to worry a bit that prices will be too high if Intel can't beat AMD until 2022 or later. But 15% is good stuff, if they keep pumping out IPC improvements like that without security issues slowing it down later with patches, having a low frequency might not matter for long in single threaded tasks if Intel has nothing to answer with.
Still butthurt that the advertised turbo speeds were effectively lies by marketing department.
JethroTu11
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Posts: 27
Joined: 2016-08-18
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Posts: 27
Joined: 2016-08-18
#5734707 Posted on: 11/25/2019 04:09 AM
Rubbish, my brothers 2700X and my friends can't do anything over 2900 cant run XMP 3200 so they have to lower the speed manually with 32GB of ram.
You must have got a real dud. My Ryzen 1200 on AB350 Pro4 runs my RAM at 2933 mhz C16 with one early BIOS update. Ryzen 2400G on B450 Pro4 runs it's RAM at 3200 mhz C14 with no BIOS updates. And I think my memory controller is weak on the 1200.
Rubbish, my brothers 2700X and my friends can't do anything over 2900 cant run XMP 3200 so they have to lower the speed manually with 32GB of ram.
You must have got a real dud. My Ryzen 1200 on AB350 Pro4 runs my RAM at 2933 mhz C16 with one early BIOS update. Ryzen 2400G on B450 Pro4 runs it's RAM at 3200 mhz C14 with no BIOS updates. And I think my memory controller is weak on the 1200.
angelgraves13
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Joined: 2014-10-11
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Posts: 1679
Joined: 2014-10-11
#5734708 Posted on: 11/25/2019 04:11 AM
Aren't Intel's Turbo clocks lies too? It's usually just for a single core anyway.
Aren't Intel's Turbo clocks lies too? It's usually just for a single core anyway.
icedman
Senior Member
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Joined: 2013-02-22
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Posts: 934
Joined: 2013-02-22
#5735050 Posted on: 11/26/2019 02:11 AM
My r5 1600 with some hynix mfr 3200mhz kit maxes out at 3000mhz ram and refuses to stabilize any higher no matter what I do and the same kit refused to go any higher on my r5 2600 so it could be more about the ram than the CPU I tested my Samsung b-die kits on both CPU's and both worked no problems.
My r5 1600 with some hynix mfr 3200mhz kit maxes out at 3000mhz ram and refuses to stabilize any higher no matter what I do and the same kit refused to go any higher on my r5 2600 so it could be more about the ram than the CPU I tested my Samsung b-die kits on both CPU's and both worked no problems.
bobblunderton
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Joined: 2017-02-15
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Posts: 107
Joined: 2017-02-15
#5736849 Posted on: 12/02/2019 11:19 AM
The machine is fine and exhibits none of the problem symptoms with boosting or clocks, nor does it have stability issues*. This is a production machine first and foremost (though I do some 2d games and occasionally 3d games aside of the one I create content for). I will update the BIOS when I have spare boards in stock but not right now, as I wish not to lose a day driving to Micro Center if something goes south - can't afford it this month (well could, but would be tighter than I wish). Please respect my judgement that is different when it comes to a machine that earns me some cash. If it was a gamer, I'd have updated it the day I got it. Right now several people's income streams depend on me being ready and able at the machine "to computer" when they say "computer!".
*My long-dying RX 480 8gb went to the big tower in the sky this morning, as I booted up waking up from what was a power failure. It's been dying for 6 months though (and is the reason this machine was built), so I have had warning, and had it down-clocked for months. That is the first time I've seen the 'We're sorry, Windows has encountered an error :*(' screen though on this machine.
When I am all done with my computer-ing, over the holiday I'll update it. Not on a day when Micro-center is closed, though.
On the topic of RAM speeds...
Ryzen RAM speed was a bit of a bummer when it first came out in 2017. Not all chips would do proper speed; be it the IMC being weaker on some dies than others, weak IF clocks, or the motherboard BIOS + RAM or Chip's IMC + RAM + BIOS not getting along, and also board traces got progressively shorter and better shielded, as the later models of motherboards came out (as it was necessitated).
Later models of Ryzen (such as 12nm 2xxx and especially 7nm 3xxx) had much better luck with memory speeds and IMC better yields. Also, as time progressed, manufacturers / board vendors got more RAM working (motherboard manufacturers via BIOS updates) and RAM manufacturers produced sticks designed to handle the new Ryzen better, labeled Ryzen Ready or 'AMD compatible', etc. While this is normal and expected for both a new process AND an entirely new socket/platform and CPU architecture, it was a lot of 'new' at once. This is normal for these things to happen, and for veterans who lived through the 'nForce chipset' era of Core 2 Duo (the only hope of SLI machines), this is something that was all-too-familiar. I will say with the internet now-a-days, it was much easier to find RAM that Ryzen liked VS those hit-or-miss nForce boards back in 2006~2008. So where intel often makes very small changes to architecture, and process - and does so one at a time normally... those baby steps are easy to keep up with. But leap-frogging to a whole new design - yes - it's not going to be all peaches and cream. I have a friend who can't get his 2933mhz RAM to 2933 with a R5 1600 chip on an Asus Prime B350 board to save his hide. I by contrast merely set XMP BIOS on my paltry 3000mhz CL-15 'on sale' Micron sticks (2x16gb), and it was off to the races with it. What a difference two years of technology maturity makes. So while yes, there were quite some issues to iron out with RAM speeds, that's very old news now UNLESS you have a board without manufacturer updates for the BIOS. Without updates, please refer to the QVL (as many folks DID NOT) to avoid the problems the QVL-ignoring folks had. Don't take this as a fight or argument, it's unintentional if you feel that way. Just please agree to disagree if you must - but these things happen in PC land. We ALL know it's not all rosey ALL the time.
@K.S. The first time I was at Micro Center was this summer. I walked out with over 800$ in parts and a whole new Ryzen system in two bags of stuff (when intel ruled the roost 5 years ago, it was 50% more expensive!). Picked up a used Fractal full tower I won at auction for best-offer buy-it-now of 50$ (was a 200$ case!!!), and was so happy I didn't even care I had to sit in an hour of Atlanta-to-Chatanooga traffic on the way back. I think they like me there, but yes, it's a little slice of heaven walking in there. I am glad it's four hours away though - if only for the sake of I like having money in my bank accounts and my bills paid! If I am good, when I die I won't go to heaven, I'll go to Micro Center.
on-topic... finally...
I'm just super-happy that this new architecture will likely be drop-in compatible with boards, just as I was to see Zen 2 stretch it's legs. I think only the Core 2 and original K-7 series / Athlon Slot A series had me this giddy for hardware updates (cpu-wise) in the last 25 years of PC hardware. Though even if I don't update for years, I'll be happy until Windows does the 'Chugga-Chugga' (slow!), then we all know what that means...
Competition = yay! I buy who-ever's got the best bang for the buck on the newest or close-to-newest platform. There's no sense buying something dated if you're going to run it to the gill making things or gaming. You'll be glad you did years down the road when you update parts of the machine, if you weren't from the start already. Just make sure it has everything you need, otherwise it's not worth buying.
Your a fool to not be updating your bios and that backwards quote of "why fix what isn't broken" doesn't stand up in computing. Ryzen 3000 bios was broken at from the start whether you like it or not. So my advice would be to update the bios.
The machine is fine and exhibits none of the problem symptoms with boosting or clocks, nor does it have stability issues*. This is a production machine first and foremost (though I do some 2d games and occasionally 3d games aside of the one I create content for). I will update the BIOS when I have spare boards in stock but not right now, as I wish not to lose a day driving to Micro Center if something goes south - can't afford it this month (well could, but would be tighter than I wish). Please respect my judgement that is different when it comes to a machine that earns me some cash. If it was a gamer, I'd have updated it the day I got it. Right now several people's income streams depend on me being ready and able at the machine "to computer" when they say "computer!".
*My long-dying RX 480 8gb went to the big tower in the sky this morning, as I booted up waking up from what was a power failure. It's been dying for 6 months though (and is the reason this machine was built), so I have had warning, and had it down-clocked for months. That is the first time I've seen the 'We're sorry, Windows has encountered an error :*(' screen though on this machine.
When I am all done with my computer-ing, over the holiday I'll update it. Not on a day when Micro-center is closed, though.
On the topic of RAM speeds...
Ryzen RAM speed was a bit of a bummer when it first came out in 2017. Not all chips would do proper speed; be it the IMC being weaker on some dies than others, weak IF clocks, or the motherboard BIOS + RAM or Chip's IMC + RAM + BIOS not getting along, and also board traces got progressively shorter and better shielded, as the later models of motherboards came out (as it was necessitated).
Later models of Ryzen (such as 12nm 2xxx and especially 7nm 3xxx) had much better luck with memory speeds and IMC better yields. Also, as time progressed, manufacturers / board vendors got more RAM working (motherboard manufacturers via BIOS updates) and RAM manufacturers produced sticks designed to handle the new Ryzen better, labeled Ryzen Ready or 'AMD compatible', etc. While this is normal and expected for both a new process AND an entirely new socket/platform and CPU architecture, it was a lot of 'new' at once. This is normal for these things to happen, and for veterans who lived through the 'nForce chipset' era of Core 2 Duo (the only hope of SLI machines), this is something that was all-too-familiar. I will say with the internet now-a-days, it was much easier to find RAM that Ryzen liked VS those hit-or-miss nForce boards back in 2006~2008. So where intel often makes very small changes to architecture, and process - and does so one at a time normally... those baby steps are easy to keep up with. But leap-frogging to a whole new design - yes - it's not going to be all peaches and cream. I have a friend who can't get his 2933mhz RAM to 2933 with a R5 1600 chip on an Asus Prime B350 board to save his hide. I by contrast merely set XMP BIOS on my paltry 3000mhz CL-15 'on sale' Micron sticks (2x16gb), and it was off to the races with it. What a difference two years of technology maturity makes. So while yes, there were quite some issues to iron out with RAM speeds, that's very old news now UNLESS you have a board without manufacturer updates for the BIOS. Without updates, please refer to the QVL (as many folks DID NOT) to avoid the problems the QVL-ignoring folks had. Don't take this as a fight or argument, it's unintentional if you feel that way. Just please agree to disagree if you must - but these things happen in PC land. We ALL know it's not all rosey ALL the time.
@K.S. The first time I was at Micro Center was this summer. I walked out with over 800$ in parts and a whole new Ryzen system in two bags of stuff (when intel ruled the roost 5 years ago, it was 50% more expensive!). Picked up a used Fractal full tower I won at auction for best-offer buy-it-now of 50$ (was a 200$ case!!!), and was so happy I didn't even care I had to sit in an hour of Atlanta-to-Chatanooga traffic on the way back. I think they like me there, but yes, it's a little slice of heaven walking in there. I am glad it's four hours away though - if only for the sake of I like having money in my bank accounts and my bills paid! If I am good, when I die I won't go to heaven, I'll go to Micro Center.
on-topic... finally...
I'm just super-happy that this new architecture will likely be drop-in compatible with boards, just as I was to see Zen 2 stretch it's legs. I think only the Core 2 and original K-7 series / Athlon Slot A series had me this giddy for hardware updates (cpu-wise) in the last 25 years of PC hardware. Though even if I don't update for years, I'll be happy until Windows does the 'Chugga-Chugga' (slow!), then we all know what that means...
Competition = yay! I buy who-ever's got the best bang for the buck on the newest or close-to-newest platform. There's no sense buying something dated if you're going to run it to the gill making things or gaming. You'll be glad you did years down the road when you update parts of the machine, if you weren't from the start already. Just make sure it has everything you need, otherwise it's not worth buying.
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Rubbish, my brothers 2700X and my friends can't do anything over 2900 cant run XMP 3200 so they have to lower the speed manually with 32GB of ram.
I know there are some that can do it but MOST can not. Some 1JZ can hit 600Hp and only a few maybe can hit 800hp but MOST do not. The claim that if mine can do most can doesn't stand up to the complaints.