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AMD: ZEN3 architecture finished – expects 15% faster IPC
AMD’s earlier this week hosted a presentation at the SC19 conference, an International Conference for High-Performance Computing, Networking, Storage, and Analysis. AMD made some interesting remarks about ZEN3 and Epyc in regards to development as well as IPC increases.
First off, AMD mentions the ZEN3 architecture design phase has been finished. Nowadays you can look at AMDs design and release phases as the traditional tick-tock release schedule. Here you may expect an iterated update of ZEN2. That’s said, ZEN3 should be seen as a new architecture is mentioned, which is interesting. We know that ZEN3 is a 7nm+ based product based on the below roadmap slide that was shared a while ago.
Zen1 compared to Zen2 brought a clock-for clock IPC increase of 21%, AMD says it careful, but hints at yet another 15% IPC increase for ZEN3, that’s again clock for clock and not counting faster clock frequencies. The necessity of more cores has not ended, and the future design path will be based on more cores and a greater compute density as well as a focus on memory bandwidth and I/O connectivity.
AMD qualified the remarks by pointing out that Zen 2 delivered a bigger IPC gain than what's normal for an evolutionary upgrade - AMD has said it's about 15% on average - since it implemented some ideas that AMD originally had for Zen but had to leave on the cutting board. However, he also asserted that Zen 3 will deliver performance gains "right in line with what you would expect from an entirely new architecture."
Despite earlier rumors, AMD also confirmed that ZEN3 and Epyc CPUs will not use a maximum of four threads per core, so you can 'bin' that idea. On the Epyc side, there was news as well, Amazon will be deploying Epyc 2 technology for their server farms and thus web services servers, which is huge for AMD of course. 64-core Rome processors will also be used in Microsoft's Azure service.
Kaleid
Senior Member
Posts: 2381
Joined: 2004-02-02
Senior Member
Posts: 2381
Joined: 2004-02-02
#5734358 Posted on: 11/23/2019 05:37 PM
Great, not sure I will upgrade this time though unless it also works for AM4.
Great, not sure I will upgrade this time though unless it also works for AM4.
Denial
Senior Member
Posts: 12417
Joined: 2004-05-16
Senior Member
Posts: 12417
Joined: 2004-05-16
#5734366 Posted on: 11/23/2019 06:04 PM
I think it will - would be silly for them to launch a new socket right before DDR5 hits mainstream only to have to launch a new socket again.
I honestly think one of the best decision AMD made was not constantly swapping sockets.
Great, not sure I will upgrade this time though unless it also works for AM4.
I think it will - would be silly for them to launch a new socket right before DDR5 hits mainstream only to have to launch a new socket again.
I honestly think one of the best decision AMD made was not constantly swapping sockets.
msroadkill612
Member
Posts: 53
Joined: 2014-10-26
Member
Posts: 53
Joined: 2014-10-26
#5734375 Posted on: 11/23/2019 06:34 PM
One of the factors cited seems neglected here. The "things which had to be left on the cutting board" sounds very real world to me.
Deadlines can be brutal.
zen is so fresh and new, and budgets are blossoming, so i imagine there is a lot of low hanging fruit at this stage of its evolution.
One of the factors cited seems neglected here. The "things which had to be left on the cutting board" sounds very real world to me.
Deadlines can be brutal.
zen is so fresh and new, and budgets are blossoming, so i imagine there is a lot of low hanging fruit at this stage of its evolution.
bobblunderton
Member
Posts: 33
Joined: 2017-02-15
Member
Posts: 33
Joined: 2017-02-15
#5734405 Posted on: 11/23/2019 09:04 PM
If you have a gen 6 intel or older (or even anything 7xxx that's not a dynamite overclocker), you will be very pleased with a 3700x CPU or 3900x if you wish to splurge a bit. The 2700x is also currently listed for 160$ at Micro Center & you get 30$ off the price if you include an AM4 motherboard in your purchase (almost any motherboard there). So 130$ for a 2700x, which easily rivals 4xxx~6xxx intel chips, or pick up a new 3700x which will be even quicker and have a lot more cores VS the quad-core-with-Hyperthreading we were accustomed to.
I made the leap, very happy with the new system I put together around August!
x570 Asrock Phantom Gaming 4 (Pci-E 4.0, intel NIC, 8 sata ports, open-ended PCI-E slots (for accomadating longer cards). ~150$
Micron RAM that was on sale 2x 16gb sticks of 3000mhz CL15 ~2x 70$
3700x boxed processor with boxed cooler, replaced paste with liquid metal in very very small quantity, as there was WAY TOO MUCH paste on the cooler from the factory. Was 50$ off with combo at the time so ended up paying 329$ for processor and 104.99$ for the motherboard.
1TB NVME drive (Inland brand, was on sale.). ~103$
Of course Seasonic PSU, external BD-burner, used full tower Fractal case for 40~50$ off auction site, and used 50$ Sound Blaster Audigy RX
Rx 480 8gb that's a hold-over from the old machine, it got hit by some surges so it's down-clocked 10% but still works for now.
So I paid about 800 for the parts not including video card, case and my 3$ BD-Burner drive (yes, and it's not even stolen!!!)
Works great. Does CAD stuff in Maya and runs BeamNG Drive stuff like a total pro. Working with graphics in professional software and even simple zip/unzip file management operations had a considerable reduction in wait-time. My 4790k @ 4.4ghz just could NOT hold a candlestick to this.
I listed my modestly powerful system for those interested in making the jump. I just put the bare-minimum motherboard in but you can get an Asus if it suits you better, though from an added cost perspective it wasn't worth it for me.
You will not regret the jump one bit from intel, unless you already have an 8086k/8700k/9700k/9900k processor.
No boost issues. Never updated BIOS from release days as it 'works fine', why fix what isn't broken? No heat or noise issues from CPU cooler or the chip set fan (which many people say makes noise, I have a sound-deadened case and even with the side panel off I can't hear the chip set fan EVER - though - that being said nothing I have is PCI-E 4.0 yet).
Processor overclocks itself as needed, without PBO enabled, stock cooler is 'good enough' unlike any intel ones from Pentium 4 "Prescott" onward.
Extra cache memory helps the process scheduler keep the cores fed quickly, with limited 'wasted hops' in the CPU.
Upgrade path is a BIG bonus as I could put a 16-core 32-thread 3950x in here one day when they're more affordable. Purportedly Zen 3 will slot into an existing AM4 motherboard, keeping fingers crossed. That being said I'm running 92 people in a Rimworld modded colony on this with a bunch of traders here and 200+ animals in the map, and it's going along nicely yet, SO much faster than the other machine was.
Consider it, you won't be disappointed as it is easily on par with intel for the most part, sometimes winning, sometimes losing. You'd be hard pressed to tell the difference unless you ONLY game in multiplayer competitive gaming with 144hz refresh rates with a monster GPU / low settings. Things with file zip/unzip, encoding, working with video/graphics/model editing is much better here. No buyer's remorse, and honestly, not sure why you're still waiting.
This was not a paid post etc. Just totally honest.
For the first time in 10 years im not even looking at the Intel cpus i dont even know the names of their 10nm chips thats how uninteresting the've become. Despite everything Intel still stays on top but thats about to change it seems.
If you have a gen 6 intel or older (or even anything 7xxx that's not a dynamite overclocker), you will be very pleased with a 3700x CPU or 3900x if you wish to splurge a bit. The 2700x is also currently listed for 160$ at Micro Center & you get 30$ off the price if you include an AM4 motherboard in your purchase (almost any motherboard there). So 130$ for a 2700x, which easily rivals 4xxx~6xxx intel chips, or pick up a new 3700x which will be even quicker and have a lot more cores VS the quad-core-with-Hyperthreading we were accustomed to.
I made the leap, very happy with the new system I put together around August!
x570 Asrock Phantom Gaming 4 (Pci-E 4.0, intel NIC, 8 sata ports, open-ended PCI-E slots (for accomadating longer cards). ~150$
Micron RAM that was on sale 2x 16gb sticks of 3000mhz CL15 ~2x 70$
3700x boxed processor with boxed cooler, replaced paste with liquid metal in very very small quantity, as there was WAY TOO MUCH paste on the cooler from the factory. Was 50$ off with combo at the time so ended up paying 329$ for processor and 104.99$ for the motherboard.
1TB NVME drive (Inland brand, was on sale.). ~103$
Of course Seasonic PSU, external BD-burner, used full tower Fractal case for 40~50$ off auction site, and used 50$ Sound Blaster Audigy RX
Rx 480 8gb that's a hold-over from the old machine, it got hit by some surges so it's down-clocked 10% but still works for now.
So I paid about 800 for the parts not including video card, case and my 3$ BD-Burner drive (yes, and it's not even stolen!!!)
Works great. Does CAD stuff in Maya and runs BeamNG Drive stuff like a total pro. Working with graphics in professional software and even simple zip/unzip file management operations had a considerable reduction in wait-time. My 4790k @ 4.4ghz just could NOT hold a candlestick to this.
I listed my modestly powerful system for those interested in making the jump. I just put the bare-minimum motherboard in but you can get an Asus if it suits you better, though from an added cost perspective it wasn't worth it for me.
You will not regret the jump one bit from intel, unless you already have an 8086k/8700k/9700k/9900k processor.
No boost issues. Never updated BIOS from release days as it 'works fine', why fix what isn't broken? No heat or noise issues from CPU cooler or the chip set fan (which many people say makes noise, I have a sound-deadened case and even with the side panel off I can't hear the chip set fan EVER - though - that being said nothing I have is PCI-E 4.0 yet).
Processor overclocks itself as needed, without PBO enabled, stock cooler is 'good enough' unlike any intel ones from Pentium 4 "Prescott" onward.
Extra cache memory helps the process scheduler keep the cores fed quickly, with limited 'wasted hops' in the CPU.
Upgrade path is a BIG bonus as I could put a 16-core 32-thread 3950x in here one day when they're more affordable. Purportedly Zen 3 will slot into an existing AM4 motherboard, keeping fingers crossed. That being said I'm running 92 people in a Rimworld modded colony on this with a bunch of traders here and 200+ animals in the map, and it's going along nicely yet, SO much faster than the other machine was.
Consider it, you won't be disappointed as it is easily on par with intel for the most part, sometimes winning, sometimes losing. You'd be hard pressed to tell the difference unless you ONLY game in multiplayer competitive gaming with 144hz refresh rates with a monster GPU / low settings. Things with file zip/unzip, encoding, working with video/graphics/model editing is much better here. No buyer's remorse, and honestly, not sure why you're still waiting.
This was not a paid post etc. Just totally honest.
K.S.
Senior Member
Posts: 1951
Joined: 2009-06-07
Senior Member
Posts: 1951
Joined: 2009-06-07
#5734457 Posted on: 11/24/2019 02:43 AM
Man can't beat it ... good ole' Microcenter still kickin as Fry's is a dyin' heh'
Micro Center & you get 30$ off the price if you include an AM4 motherboard in your purchase (almost any motherboard there).
Man can't beat it ... good ole' Microcenter still kickin as Fry's is a dyin' heh'
kanenas
Member
Posts: 21
Joined: 2019-07-07
Member
Posts: 21
Joined: 2019-07-07
#5734459 Posted on: 11/24/2019 02:47 AM
So 130$ for a 2700x, which easily rivals 4xxx~6xxx intel chips
you give to little credit to Amd
let me show you what a 2700x can make with 3600 cl15 ram,x470 and ryzen calculator.
So 130$ for a 2700x, which easily rivals 4xxx~6xxx intel chips
you give to little credit to Amd
let me show you what a 2700x can make with 3600 cl15 ram,x470 and ryzen calculator.
Carfax
Senior Member
Posts: 2599
Joined: 2010-05-06
Senior Member
Posts: 2599
Joined: 2010-05-06
#5734493 Posted on: 11/24/2019 07:59 AM
Frequency is just one part of why Intel still rules in gaming. The others are lower memory latency, and lower inter core latency, and it doesn't seem like Intel will be abandoning it's monolithic die strategy so they will likely keep those advantages.
Also, Zen 3 might face off against Intel desktop CPUs based on Willow Cove if Intel can get its act together in 2020, which it seems like that's whats happening.
Intel isn't going to take this laying down, but at least AMD seems serious about decisively taking back the CPU performance crown in all aspects so it's going to be game on in 2020!
5Ghz will not save intel now, Zen 3 will be faster in games at lower clocks.
Frequency is just one part of why Intel still rules in gaming. The others are lower memory latency, and lower inter core latency, and it doesn't seem like Intel will be abandoning it's monolithic die strategy so they will likely keep those advantages.
Also, Zen 3 might face off against Intel desktop CPUs based on Willow Cove if Intel can get its act together in 2020, which it seems like that's whats happening.
Intel isn't going to take this laying down, but at least AMD seems serious about decisively taking back the CPU performance crown in all aspects so it's going to be game on in 2020!
Angushades
Senior Member
Posts: 206
Joined: 2007-06-11
Senior Member
Posts: 206
Joined: 2007-06-11
#5734513 Posted on: 11/24/2019 10:02 AM
If you have a gen 6 intel or older (or even anything 7xxx that's not a dynamite overclocker), you will be very pleased with a 3700x CPU or 3900x if you wish to splurge a bit. The 2700x is also currently listed for 160$ at Micro Center & you get 30$ off the price if you include an AM4 motherboard in your purchase (almost any motherboard there). So 130$ for a 2700x, which easily rivals 4xxx~6xxx intel chips, or pick up a new 3700x which will be even quicker and have a lot more cores VS the quad-core-with-Hyperthreading we were accustomed to.
I made the leap, very happy with the new system I put together around August!
x570 Asrock Phantom Gaming 4 (Pci-E 4.0, intel NIC, 8 sata ports, open-ended PCI-E slots (for accomadating longer cards). ~150$
Micron RAM that was on sale 2x 16gb sticks of 3000mhz CL15 ~2x 70$
3700x boxed processor with boxed cooler, replaced paste with liquid metal in very very small quantity, as there was WAY TOO MUCH paste on the cooler from the factory. Was 50$ off with combo at the time so ended up paying 329$ for processor and 104.99$ for the motherboard.
1TB NVME drive (Inland brand, was on sale.). ~103$
Of course Seasonic PSU, external BD-burner, used full tower Fractal case for 40~50$ off auction site, and used 50$ Sound Blaster Audigy RX
Rx 480 8gb that's a hold-over from the old machine, it got hit by some surges so it's down-clocked 10% but still works for now.
So I paid about 800 for the parts not including video card, case and my 3$ BD-Burner drive (yes, and it's not even stolen!!!)
Works great. Does CAD stuff in Maya and runs BeamNG Drive stuff like a total pro. Working with graphics in professional software and even simple zip/unzip file management operations had a considerable reduction in wait-time. My 4790k @ 4.4ghz just could NOT hold a candlestick to this.
I listed my modestly powerful system for those interested in making the jump. I just put the bare-minimum motherboard in but you can get an Asus if it suits you better, though from an added cost perspective it wasn't worth it for me.
You will not regret the jump one bit from intel, unless you already have an 8086k/8700k/9700k/9900k processor.
No boost issues. Never updated BIOS from release days as it 'works fine', why fix what isn't broken? No heat or noise issues from CPU cooler or the chip set fan (which many people say makes noise, I have a sound-deadened case and even with the side panel off I can't hear the chip set fan EVER - though - that being said nothing I have is PCI-E 4.0 yet).
Processor overclocks itself as needed, without PBO enabled, stock cooler is 'good enough' unlike any intel ones from Pentium 4 "Prescott" onward.
Extra cache memory helps the process scheduler keep the cores fed quickly, with limited 'wasted hops' in the CPU.
Upgrade path is a BIG bonus as I could put a 16-core 32-thread 3950x in here one day when they're more affordable. Purportedly Zen 3 will slot into an existing AM4 motherboard, keeping fingers crossed. That being said I'm running 92 people in a Rimworld modded colony on this with a bunch of traders here and 200+ animals in the map, and it's going along nicely yet, SO much faster than the other machine was.
Consider it, you won't be disappointed as it is easily on par with intel for the most part, sometimes winning, sometimes losing. You'd be hard pressed to tell the difference unless you ONLY game in multiplayer competitive gaming with 144hz refresh rates with a monster GPU / low settings. Things with file zip/unzip, encoding, working with video/graphics/model editing is much better here. No buyer's remorse, and honestly, not sure why you're still waiting.
This was not a paid post etc. Just totally honest.
Your a fool to not be updating your bios and that backwards quote of "why fix what isn't broken" doesn't stand up in computing. Ryzen 3000 bios was broken at from the start whether you like it or not. So my advice would be to update the bios.
If you have a gen 6 intel or older (or even anything 7xxx that's not a dynamite overclocker), you will be very pleased with a 3700x CPU or 3900x if you wish to splurge a bit. The 2700x is also currently listed for 160$ at Micro Center & you get 30$ off the price if you include an AM4 motherboard in your purchase (almost any motherboard there). So 130$ for a 2700x, which easily rivals 4xxx~6xxx intel chips, or pick up a new 3700x which will be even quicker and have a lot more cores VS the quad-core-with-Hyperthreading we were accustomed to.
I made the leap, very happy with the new system I put together around August!
x570 Asrock Phantom Gaming 4 (Pci-E 4.0, intel NIC, 8 sata ports, open-ended PCI-E slots (for accomadating longer cards). ~150$
Micron RAM that was on sale 2x 16gb sticks of 3000mhz CL15 ~2x 70$
3700x boxed processor with boxed cooler, replaced paste with liquid metal in very very small quantity, as there was WAY TOO MUCH paste on the cooler from the factory. Was 50$ off with combo at the time so ended up paying 329$ for processor and 104.99$ for the motherboard.
1TB NVME drive (Inland brand, was on sale.). ~103$
Of course Seasonic PSU, external BD-burner, used full tower Fractal case for 40~50$ off auction site, and used 50$ Sound Blaster Audigy RX
Rx 480 8gb that's a hold-over from the old machine, it got hit by some surges so it's down-clocked 10% but still works for now.
So I paid about 800 for the parts not including video card, case and my 3$ BD-Burner drive (yes, and it's not even stolen!!!)
Works great. Does CAD stuff in Maya and runs BeamNG Drive stuff like a total pro. Working with graphics in professional software and even simple zip/unzip file management operations had a considerable reduction in wait-time. My 4790k @ 4.4ghz just could NOT hold a candlestick to this.
I listed my modestly powerful system for those interested in making the jump. I just put the bare-minimum motherboard in but you can get an Asus if it suits you better, though from an added cost perspective it wasn't worth it for me.
You will not regret the jump one bit from intel, unless you already have an 8086k/8700k/9700k/9900k processor.
No boost issues. Never updated BIOS from release days as it 'works fine', why fix what isn't broken? No heat or noise issues from CPU cooler or the chip set fan (which many people say makes noise, I have a sound-deadened case and even with the side panel off I can't hear the chip set fan EVER - though - that being said nothing I have is PCI-E 4.0 yet).
Processor overclocks itself as needed, without PBO enabled, stock cooler is 'good enough' unlike any intel ones from Pentium 4 "Prescott" onward.
Extra cache memory helps the process scheduler keep the cores fed quickly, with limited 'wasted hops' in the CPU.
Upgrade path is a BIG bonus as I could put a 16-core 32-thread 3950x in here one day when they're more affordable. Purportedly Zen 3 will slot into an existing AM4 motherboard, keeping fingers crossed. That being said I'm running 92 people in a Rimworld modded colony on this with a bunch of traders here and 200+ animals in the map, and it's going along nicely yet, SO much faster than the other machine was.
Consider it, you won't be disappointed as it is easily on par with intel for the most part, sometimes winning, sometimes losing. You'd be hard pressed to tell the difference unless you ONLY game in multiplayer competitive gaming with 144hz refresh rates with a monster GPU / low settings. Things with file zip/unzip, encoding, working with video/graphics/model editing is much better here. No buyer's remorse, and honestly, not sure why you're still waiting.
This was not a paid post etc. Just totally honest.
Your a fool to not be updating your bios and that backwards quote of "why fix what isn't broken" doesn't stand up in computing. Ryzen 3000 bios was broken at from the start whether you like it or not. So my advice would be to update the bios.
Angushades
Senior Member
Posts: 206
Joined: 2007-06-11
Senior Member
Posts: 206
Joined: 2007-06-11
#5734515 Posted on: 11/24/2019 10:04 AM
So 130$ for a 2700x, which easily rivals 4xxx~6xxx intel chips
you give to little credit to Amd
let me show you what a 2700x can make with 3600 cl15 ram,x470 and ryzen calculator.
That's and exception not the rule mate.Very few ryzen plus go over 2900memory stable.
So 130$ for a 2700x, which easily rivals 4xxx~6xxx intel chips
you give to little credit to Amd
let me show you what a 2700x can make with 3600 cl15 ram,x470 and ryzen calculator.
That's and exception not the rule mate.Very few ryzen plus go over 2900memory stable.
kanenas
Member
Posts: 21
Joined: 2019-07-07
Member
Posts: 21
Joined: 2019-07-07
#5734562 Posted on: 11/24/2019 01:18 PM
What?I have 3 systems hero vi,hero vii,x370 gaming 5 and ryzen 2600x,2700x,1600x all of them works from 3200 2 3600.
That's and exception not the rule mate.Very few ryzen plus go over 2900memory stable.
What?I have 3 systems hero vi,hero vii,x370 gaming 5 and ryzen 2600x,2700x,1600x all of them works from 3200 2 3600.
Aura89
Senior Member
Posts: 7718
Joined: 2008-07-31
Senior Member
Posts: 7718
Joined: 2008-07-31
#5734607 Posted on: 11/24/2019 05:44 PM
That's just not true. My previous 1700x and my wifes current 1600 both do 3200Mhz no problem, and the 2000, Zen+ CPUs had it even better.
That's and exception not the rule mate.Very few ryzen plus go over 2900memory stable.
That's just not true. My previous 1700x and my wifes current 1600 both do 3200Mhz no problem, and the 2000, Zen+ CPUs had it even better.
K.S.
Senior Member
Posts: 1951
Joined: 2009-06-07
Senior Member
Posts: 1951
Joined: 2009-06-07
#5734611 Posted on: 11/24/2019 05:56 PM
Lol oh noooo someone had to say something about another user’s RAM and the knives came out...
Lol oh noooo someone had to say something about another user’s RAM and the knives came out...
wavetrex
Senior Member
Posts: 693
Joined: 2008-07-16
Senior Member
Posts: 693
Joined: 2008-07-16
#5734619 Posted on: 11/24/2019 06:10 PM
For Zen 1 (1000 series), 3200-3400 is reasonable with a good board, but more ... not really, must be lucky.
Zen 1+ (2000 series, non G) goes all the way to 3600, but that's the limit as, the IF cannot go higher than 1800 on those chips and there is no "unlinked" mode on them.
DDR4-3800 (aka, 1900Mhz) are easy to do for a lot of Zen 2 chips (including mine).
The controller can certainly do more, it depends on the memory kits on how low/tuned the latency can go.
(It's better to keep it in sync with IF, 1:1, so up to 1900Mhz, the using faster memory and adding buffering in the I/O die - which adds latency)
For Zen 1 (1000 series), 3200-3400 is reasonable with a good board, but more ... not really, must be lucky.
Zen 1+ (2000 series, non G) goes all the way to 3600, but that's the limit as, the IF cannot go higher than 1800 on those chips and there is no "unlinked" mode on them.
DDR4-3800 (aka, 1900Mhz) are easy to do for a lot of Zen 2 chips (including mine).
The controller can certainly do more, it depends on the memory kits on how low/tuned the latency can go.
(It's better to keep it in sync with IF, 1:1, so up to 1900Mhz, the using faster memory and adding buffering in the I/O die - which adds latency)
user1
Senior Member
Posts: 1443
Joined: 2016-01-29
Senior Member
Posts: 1443
Joined: 2016-01-29
#5734635 Posted on: 11/24/2019 06:45 PM
Amd is moving to an 8core ccx, cross ccx latency wont be an issue for mainstream chips on zen3.
There's always going to be a latency penalty communicating BEWTWEEN CCX's. This is an inherent limitation of the design. You can some what mitigate via the evils such as branch prediction, you will not eliminate it.
Amd is moving to an 8core ccx, cross ccx latency wont be an issue for mainstream chips on zen3.
Click here to post a comment for this news story on the message forum.
Senior Member
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how so? Here's the original source for that excerpt/story and that quote is intact if I read things right (I may not have)EDIT: I think I understand what you meant now. Misquote of the quote - lol. GURU3D tongue twisters...