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Guru3D.com » News » AMD: Windows Thread Scheduler is operating properly for Ryzen

AMD: Windows Thread Scheduler is operating properly for Ryzen

by Hilbert Hagedoorn on: 03/14/2017 08:52 AM | source: | 124 comment(s)
AMD: Windows Thread Scheduler is operating properly for Ryzen

AMD has investigated the reports of thread scheduling issues and found that "the Windows 10 thread scheduler is operating properly for "Zen," and we do not presently believe there is an issue with the scheduler adversely utilizing the logical and physical configurations of the architecture." They also talk SMT and power plans.

So there will not be an easy fix for the low 1080p game performance issues then. Hence you should not expect a Windows 10 performance patch. AMD tested Windows 10 and Windows 7 and they "do not believe there is an issue with scheduling differences between the two versions of Windows."

AMD: 

While these findings have been great to read, we are just getting started! The AMD Ryzen™ processor and AM4 Platform both have room to grow, and we wanted to take a few minutes to address some of the questions and comments being discussed across the web.

Thread Scheduling

We have investigated reports alleging incorrect thread scheduling on the AMD Ryzen™ processor. Based on our findings, AMD believes that the Windows® 10 thread scheduler is operating properly for “Zen,” and we do not presently believe there is an issue with the scheduler adversely utilizing the logical and physical configurations of the architecture.

As an extension of this investigation, we have also reviewed topology logs generated by the Sysinternals Coreinfo utility. We have determined that an outdated version of the application was responsible for originating the incorrect topology data that has been widely reported in the media. Coreinfo v3.31 (or later) will produce the correct results.

Finally, we have reviewed the limited available evidence concerning performance deltas between Windows® 7 and Windows® 10 on the AMD Ryzen™ CPU. We do not believe there is an issue with scheduling differences between the two versions of Windows.  Any differences in performance can be more likely attributed to software architecture differences between these OSes.

Going forward, our analysis highlights that there are many applications that already make good use of the cores and threads in Ryzen, and there are other applications that can better utilize the topology and capabilities of our new CPU with some targeted optimizations. These opportunities are already being actively worked via the AMD Ryzen™ dev kit program that has sampled 300+ systems worldwide.

Above all, we would like to thank the community for their efforts to understand the Ryzen processor and reporting their findings. The software/hardware relationship is a complex one, with additional layers of nuance when preexisting software is exposed to an all-new architecture. We are already finding many small changes that can improve the Ryzen performance in certain applications, and we are optimistic that these will result in beneficial optimizations for current and future applications.

Power Plans

Users may have heard that AMD recommends the High Performance power plan within Windows® 10 for the best performance on Ryzen, and indeed we do. We recommend this plan for two key reasons: 

  1. Core Parking OFF: Idle CPU cores are instantaneously available for thread scheduling. In contrast, the Balanced plan aggressively places idle CPU cores into low power states. This can cause additional latency when un-parking cores to accommodate varying loads.
  2. Fast frequency change: The AMD Ryzen™ processor can alter its voltage and frequency states in the 1ms intervals natively supported by the “Zen” architecture. In contrast, the Balanced plan may take longer for voltage and frequency (V/f) changes due to software participation in power state changes.

In the near term, we recommend that games and other high-performance applications are complemented by the High Performance plan. By the first week of April, AMD intends to provide an update for AMD Ryzen™ processors that optimizes the power policy parameters of the Balanced plan to favor performance more consistent with the typical usage models of a desktop PC.

Simultaneous Multi-threading (SMT)

Finally, we have investigated reports of instances where SMT is producing reduced performance in a handful of games. Based on our characterization of game workloads, it is our expectation that gaming applications should generally see a neutral/positive benefit from SMT. We see this neutral/positive behavior in a wide range of titles, including: Arma® 3, Battlefield™ 1, Mafia™ III, Watch Dogs™ 2, Sid Meier’s Civilization® VI, For Honor™, Hitman™, Mirror’s Edge™ Catalyst and The Division™. Independent 3rd-party analyses have corroborated these findings.

For the remaining outliers, AMD again sees multiple opportunities within the codebases of specific applications to improve how this software addresses the “Zen” architecture. We have already identified some simple changes that can improve a game’s understanding of the "Zen" core/cache topology, and we intend to provide a status update to the community when they are ready.







« Analyst Predicts Weak Market for Samsung S8 Due to iPhone 8 · AMD: Windows Thread Scheduler is operating properly for Ryzen · AMD Ryzen 7 have a Temperature 20 Degree C Reporting Offset »

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RealNC
Senior Member



Posts: 4243
Joined: 2011-11-24

#5406608 Posted on: 03/14/2017 09:08 PM
I see the "Linux handles it better" argument flying around too much. It should be pointed out that Linux's scheduler prefers high throughput. It is able to maximize CPU utilization better, but when it comes to latency it does worse than Windows. However, that's by default. Windows has a scheduler mode that also maximizes throughput. Windows server editions have that enabled by default.

Athlonite
Senior Member



Posts: 1357
Joined: 2007-11-09

#5406634 Posted on: 03/14/2017 09:46 PM
So glad I'm waiting to see what happens with Ryzen / windows 10 there'll always be teething problems with new archs so this time I'm not going rush out and buy it

tsunami231
Senior Member



Posts: 13870
Joined: 2003-05-24

#5406635 Posted on: 03/14/2017 09:49 PM
didnt AMD say it had nothing to do with scheduleer weeks back? and even if it did it would make much difference?

Chillin
Senior Member



Posts: 6814
Joined: 2006-01-18

#5406637 Posted on: 03/14/2017 09:49 PM
I love this, some of the previous replies here are amazing in their alternate facts© .

So here we have AMD themselves coming out and saying that there isn't going to be major performance boosts and that the system is working correctly, and people here on this forum seem to know better and are saying that AMD is wrong and that there will be magical future performance boosts (against what AMD is saying).....

People make excuses for AMD and Ryzen no matter what the reality, and it's sad. The market doesn't care for these excuses outside of some noisy fanboys***8203; on some forums, and AMDs market share reflects that.

tehort
Junior Member



Posts: 2
Joined: 2010-08-16

#5406651 Posted on: 03/14/2017 10:09 PM
I wonder if the CCX problem is actually a Windows/Kernel problem, or an application-level optimization?

It's pretty much impossible for Windows to guess the kind of work a certain algorithm is trying to process, it should be the application`s duty to be optimized for certain architectures according to its algorithm optimizations or lack of.

also, it`s pretty common to blame Windows, and expect miracles from AMD, so...
Besides, Ryzen doesn`t seems to have more or even less advantages against Intel on Linux.

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