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AMD will give consoles a Die-shrink first
As you guys probably know, console APUs have become big business for AMD. Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo are all using one. These are still based on a 28nm fabrication process. However TSMC is getting its 20nm fabrication node up and running.
Now everybody expected AMD to die-shrink their APUs for the PC market first, but it's the console SoCs that will be favored. As TPU reports today:
Unlike NVIDIA, which may use the new process to shrink its GPUs, or launch bigger chips based on its "Maxwell" architecture, AMD will treat its console SoCs with optical-shrinks to the new nodes first, so the company could immediately eke out better margins, as console gamers upgrade to Xbox One or the PlayStation 4. AMD's SoC for the Xbox One, could be the first in line for this optical shrink to 20 nm. This chip features a transistor count of 5 billion, and houses eight 64-bit x86 CPU cores, and a 768 SP GPU based on the Graphics CoreNext architecture; 48 MB of on-die cache, and a quad-channel DDR3 IMC. The chip also features an integrated core logic. AMD's chip for the PlayStation 4 features design inputs from Sony. The chip features the same CPU component, but a 1152 SP GPU, and a 256-bit wide GDDR5 memory interface, wired to 8 GB of memory that's virtualized for both system- and graphics-memory. The 20 nm shrinks of both chips are expected to lower not just manufacturing costs, but also step up energy-efficiency, which could then let Microsoft and Sony save additional costs on other components, such as power and cooling.
Via TPU and Expreview.
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IcE
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#4953632 Posted on: 11/07/2014 01:13 AM
Is there really a need for such heated disagreement? We're all PC gamers here, I'm not sure why anyone is concerned about the consoles maybe getting a die shrink. If they do, it will purely be to cut costs or establish a new fabrication level, not to improve performance. Come on now.
Is there really a need for such heated disagreement? We're all PC gamers here, I'm not sure why anyone is concerned about the consoles maybe getting a die shrink. If they do, it will purely be to cut costs or establish a new fabrication level, not to improve performance. Come on now.
Redemption80
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Posts: 18495
Joined: 2009-01-06
Senior Member
Posts: 18495
Joined: 2009-01-06
#4953643 Posted on: 11/07/2014 01:34 AM
As per usual it has changed into something else, but surely heated is fine as long as it doesn't involve trolling or name calling?
In my opinion, this page alone (some arguing 1080/30 should be the minimum, while others saying it should be 720/60) is proof that there should be no standard on consoles when it comes to resolution or framerate, and is something that should be decided on a per game basis.
As i said previously, you could have a 5960X and 2-3 980's inside a console and you would still have plenty of devs cranking everything up to the max and capping the framerate to 30fps.
As per usual it has changed into something else, but surely heated is fine as long as it doesn't involve trolling or name calling?
In my opinion, this page alone (some arguing 1080/30 should be the minimum, while others saying it should be 720/60) is proof that there should be no standard on consoles when it comes to resolution or framerate, and is something that should be decided on a per game basis.
As i said previously, you could have a 5960X and 2-3 980's inside a console and you would still have plenty of devs cranking everything up to the max and capping the framerate to 30fps.
IcE
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Posts: 10694
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Posts: 10694
Joined: 2008-11-01
#4953644 Posted on: 11/07/2014 01:35 AM
As per usual it has changed into something else, but surely heated is fine as long as it doesn't involve trolling or name calling?
In my opinion, this page alone (some arguing 1080/30 should be the minimum, while others saying it should be 720/60) is proof that there should be no standard on consoles when it comes to resolution or framerate, and is something that should be decided on a per game basis.
As i said previously, you could have a 5960X and 2-3 980's inside a console and you would still have plenty of devs cranking everything up to the max and capping the framerate to 30fps.
There was a tad bit of trolling from a certain someone. Repeat posts of meme images is sadly not appropriate.
As per usual it has changed into something else, but surely heated is fine as long as it doesn't involve trolling or name calling?
In my opinion, this page alone (some arguing 1080/30 should be the minimum, while others saying it should be 720/60) is proof that there should be no standard on consoles when it comes to resolution or framerate, and is something that should be decided on a per game basis.
As i said previously, you could have a 5960X and 2-3 980's inside a console and you would still have plenty of devs cranking everything up to the max and capping the framerate to 30fps.
There was a tad bit of trolling from a certain someone. Repeat posts of meme images is sadly not appropriate.
Fender178
Senior Member
Posts: 4196
Joined: 2004-09-28
Senior Member
Posts: 4196
Joined: 2004-09-28
#4953647 Posted on: 11/07/2014 01:40 AM
...
Wut
What exactly is holding developers back from hitting 1080p @ 60fps then? Why aren't they doing that currently if it far outweighs 720p @ 30?
The entire point is that there is a relationship between all three of the following:
FPS
Resolution
Visual Graphics
If you want higher of any of them you need to decrease the other two or one twice as much. Wii U has high FPS but it sacrifices both resolution and visual graphics of the game to achieve that.
Looby is literally saying that game developers can improve all three simultaneously, which is impossible.
If I have a game and it's running at 720p @ 30fps and lets assign a "graphic's number" at 100. And I want said game to be 1080p @ 60fps then that "graphics number has to decrease in order to achieve that.
You can't have your cake and eat it too, the performance needs to come from somewhere. If looby is implying that every single game developer out there is intentionally crippling the games to not perform up to standards then my mind is beyond blown. At this point I think that's what he is saying, either that or the thousands of developers in the industry are incapable of optimizing their engine properly and he clearly is capable of this.
Edit: Also I'm not saying that I don't think 1080p @ 60fps is unnecessary or inferior. I'm saying that given the constraints of the hardware in the console, developers would rather put bigger focus on improving lighting, particles, physics, etc then increasing resolution. Hell some of these games barely look better than previous generation ones. If they were rendered at 1080p @ 60fps the increased rendering power would probably all go to that.
Yeah I know that in order to have a game at a constant frame rate such as 60 fps you will have to downgrade either resolution, Visual graphics or both of them if the system can't handle it.
...
Wut
What exactly is holding developers back from hitting 1080p @ 60fps then? Why aren't they doing that currently if it far outweighs 720p @ 30?
The entire point is that there is a relationship between all three of the following:
FPS
Resolution
Visual Graphics
If you want higher of any of them you need to decrease the other two or one twice as much. Wii U has high FPS but it sacrifices both resolution and visual graphics of the game to achieve that.
Looby is literally saying that game developers can improve all three simultaneously, which is impossible.
If I have a game and it's running at 720p @ 30fps and lets assign a "graphic's number" at 100. And I want said game to be 1080p @ 60fps then that "graphics number has to decrease in order to achieve that.
You can't have your cake and eat it too, the performance needs to come from somewhere. If looby is implying that every single game developer out there is intentionally crippling the games to not perform up to standards then my mind is beyond blown. At this point I think that's what he is saying, either that or the thousands of developers in the industry are incapable of optimizing their engine properly and he clearly is capable of this.
Edit: Also I'm not saying that I don't think 1080p @ 60fps is unnecessary or inferior. I'm saying that given the constraints of the hardware in the console, developers would rather put bigger focus on improving lighting, particles, physics, etc then increasing resolution. Hell some of these games barely look better than previous generation ones. If they were rendered at 1080p @ 60fps the increased rendering power would probably all go to that.
Yeah I know that in order to have a game at a constant frame rate such as 60 fps you will have to downgrade either resolution, Visual graphics or both of them if the system can't handle it.
Click here to post a comment for this news story on the message forum.
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Wow!!
They still don't get it. Hmm lets see...
Say you are a dev that just released 60fps console game.
Later down the road you upgrade the rendering quality of your game by bringing in compute AA, OpenCL driven global illumination, high quality shadows, photorealistic textures, 2xSupersampling etc etc.
Basically cutting your frames/sec to 1/4.
Through the sheer quality of your engine and your optimization skills you manage to increase performance by 100%.
Award winning question: What should be your target fps for the same console as game 1?