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AMD Ryzen Threadripper actually has 32-cores under that heatspreader
So one thing I have been thinking about for a while now is that AMDs server platform EPYC offers 32-core processors. Realistically it would not make much sense to create separate and create alternate SKUs for the consumer given AMDs recent history (4 core procs are really 8-core parts).
Well, Roman Hartung aka Der8auer just confirmed some suspicions I had in a video. He got his hands on an engineering sample Ryzen Threadripper processor, the brave man that he is delidded it (while knowing the dies are soldered to the heatspreader) and noticed four dies under there. He also killed the Threadripper that way :( That would be 8-cores per die folks! And that means in the future Threadripper could even scale upwards to 32-cores and 64-threads LOL.
Count them - 4 dies - 8 CCXes each holding 4 cores
We are a bit puzzled as to how things are configured for the to be released 16-core Threadripper. Common sense dictates that two dies would be disabled, then again there could be four dies active with 2 disabled cores per CCX. But ergo, Threadripper seems to be the same part that is the 32-core EPYC. And that opens up so many question like is that 1 DRAM channel per die ? :) Likely though the processors are binned based on yiels. During fabrication one core or a die might not be properly functioning, you disable that die and if you have two dies left 100% working, you get your 16-core part. But with yields always getting better over time, i would not be surprized to see Threadripper processors in the future with more than 16 cores activated.
Check the video to get that smile on your face.
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schmidtbag
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Posts: 6483
Joined: 2012-11-10
Senior Member
Posts: 6483
Joined: 2012-11-10
#5456232 Posted on: 07/27/2017 06:23 PM
I can't say this surprises me either. But hey, at least now we know delidding one of these things isn't a viable option.
"We are a bit puzzled as to how things are configured for the to be released 16-core threadripper. Common sense dictates that two dies would be disabled, then again there could be four dies active with 2 disabled cores per CCX. But ergo, Threadripper really is 32-core EPYC. And that opens up so many question like is that 1 DRAM channel per die ?"
I'm sure it's not as complicated as it might seem. Kind of the point of the CCXs and infinity fabric is to exchange data across the entire die. So it wouldn't surprise me if in some cases an entire CCX has no active cores, but the L3 cache, memory controller, and PCIe lanes are still available for the others to utilize. Maybe I'm way off, but how else would AMD account for defective cores in such a complex CPU? Perhaps this is why AMD never made any single-CCX Ryzens, because otherwise that might have forced it into single-channel memory.
I can't say this surprises me either. But hey, at least now we know delidding one of these things isn't a viable option.
"We are a bit puzzled as to how things are configured for the to be released 16-core threadripper. Common sense dictates that two dies would be disabled, then again there could be four dies active with 2 disabled cores per CCX. But ergo, Threadripper really is 32-core EPYC. And that opens up so many question like is that 1 DRAM channel per die ?"
I'm sure it's not as complicated as it might seem. Kind of the point of the CCXs and infinity fabric is to exchange data across the entire die. So it wouldn't surprise me if in some cases an entire CCX has no active cores, but the L3 cache, memory controller, and PCIe lanes are still available for the others to utilize. Maybe I'm way off, but how else would AMD account for defective cores in such a complex CPU? Perhaps this is why AMD never made any single-CCX Ryzens, because otherwise that might have forced it into single-channel memory.
SirDremor
Senior Member
Posts: 586
Joined: 2008-06-20
Senior Member
Posts: 586
Joined: 2008-06-20
#5456254 Posted on: 07/27/2017 06:54 PM
That means yields are not that great, that they use only "half" of cores.
Ok, let's pretend they are.
vbetts, is this comment also too flaming for you to tolerate my presence and refusal to love AMD?
That means yields are not that great, that they use only "half" of cores.
Ok, let's pretend they are.
vbetts, is this comment also too flaming for you to tolerate my presence and refusal to love AMD?
schmidtbag
Senior Member
Posts: 6483
Joined: 2012-11-10
Senior Member
Posts: 6483
Joined: 2012-11-10
#5456258 Posted on: 07/27/2017 07:06 PM
I wouldn't say that so absolutely, but you're probably right. Keep in mind though that core count seems inversely proportionate to potential buyers. In other words, I'm sure more people have an interest in a 16 core than a 32 core. So ultimately, it works out for processor manufacturers. As with anything you manufacture, the more complex it is, the greater the chances of there being a defect. It's inevitable, and too expensive to just throw these things away, so they're limited in various ways. Take LCDs for example - manufacturers allow more headroom of dead pixels as panels get larger, because when you've got a 30" display with a dead pixel here and there, that's a lot of product that'd otherwise go to waste:
http://www.tested.com/tech/1337-we-uncover-the-dead-pixel-policies-for-every-major-lcd-maker/
For once, I'd say the first part wasn't. However, I'm not sure he's going to appreciate the 2nd half
That means yields are not that great, that they use only "half" of cores.
I wouldn't say that so absolutely, but you're probably right. Keep in mind though that core count seems inversely proportionate to potential buyers. In other words, I'm sure more people have an interest in a 16 core than a 32 core. So ultimately, it works out for processor manufacturers. As with anything you manufacture, the more complex it is, the greater the chances of there being a defect. It's inevitable, and too expensive to just throw these things away, so they're limited in various ways. Take LCDs for example - manufacturers allow more headroom of dead pixels as panels get larger, because when you've got a 30" display with a dead pixel here and there, that's a lot of product that'd otherwise go to waste:
http://www.tested.com/tech/1337-we-uncover-the-dead-pixel-policies-for-every-major-lcd-maker/
vbetts, is this comment also too flaming for you to tolerate my presence and refusal to love AMD?
For once, I'd say the first part wasn't. However, I'm not sure he's going to appreciate the 2nd half
wavetrex
Senior Member
Posts: 1453
Joined: 2008-07-16
Senior Member
Posts: 1453
Joined: 2008-07-16
#5456265 Posted on: 07/27/2017 07:31 PM
Holy mother of cores... !!
If they are able to build these at a decently low production cost, it means that they can compete with Intel's offerings indefinitely.
Sometime 2018:
Intel (finally) launches their 18-core uber-expensive 1999$ top of the line HEDT.
"We have moar corez !"
AMD:
"yawn" ... launches 24 cores TR
Intel ups the frequency 100Mhz in despair... TDP goes through the startosphere.
AMD:
"more yawn" ... launches 32 cores TR. BANG. BANG. Ur Dead.
Holy mother of cores... !!
If they are able to build these at a decently low production cost, it means that they can compete with Intel's offerings indefinitely.
Sometime 2018:
Intel (finally) launches their 18-core uber-expensive 1999$ top of the line HEDT.
"We have moar corez !"
AMD:
"yawn" ... launches 24 cores TR
Intel ups the frequency 100Mhz in despair... TDP goes through the startosphere.
AMD:
"more yawn" ... launches 32 cores TR. BANG. BANG. Ur Dead.
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Posts: 2068
Joined: 2017-03-10
Yeah, just saw the video by Der8auer. Quite interesting, although not too surprised. Perhaps Threadripper is just EPYC CPUs that didn't quite make it?